Garrett Wang - More with Ensign Harry Kim from Star Trek Voyager!

Garret Wang – Part 2

[00:00:00] Garret Wang: Now

Jeff: were your parents aware of star Trek, the franchise prior to you? Were you getting

Garret Wang: the role? Yeah, it’s it’s interesting years later, I found out that when my mother was pregnant with me in her belly, the only show she would watch was 1966.

Original series star Trek. Oh, wow.

I obviously clearly do not remember being in the womb, but you know, my later years when I was, was eight years old is when I saw 1977 star Wars in the movie theaters and fell in love with Saifai. So I’ve been a science fiction fan my whole life pretty much, but I’ve found out from my parents that Star Trek specifically was the one TV show.

My mom watched. Religiously when I was in the belly. That’s awesome. I’m meant to be

Jeff: so, I mean, and the character you play Ensign came really is a great character for star [00:01:00] Trek Voyager because he is an Ensign and obviously it would be new to the Federation, everything else. He was a fantastic audience, surrogate.

For anyone watching that, did you kind of view them when you perform in the role as being sort of our eyes into what it is to become an office? A Federation officer.

Garret Wang: Yeah. Got a lot of fan comments early on. And back in those days, there was no there’s no Facebook, there was no Instagram, there was no Twitter.

There was all, and AOL had these chat rooms that you could go into and there were fan chat rooms, there were Voyager chat rooms and, and I would go into those rooms, you know, just kind of wandering around and, and it was hilarious because. When I first said that I w I was who I was. There was a lot of people kind of trashing me saying, get out of here you liar, you know?

And they were like, so what I did was I ended up, I ended up getting the phone number of one of the people in the chat room. I said, I’m going to call this one person in this chat room. And to have a, [00:02:00] have a real physical, I’m going to have a conversation with them. And I’m sure they will know by the sound of my voice.

That it’s really me. And so, so he, I called him up. He was like, Holy crap, it’s you? I go, yeah, it’s me. I mean, I’m not going to sit here and pretend I’m Garrett Wong for God’s sake, you know? And so he became sort of my enforcer, like every chat room we were in, he was like, look, this is really Garrett.

He’s called me before I know it’s him. You know? So so anyway, I. They were definitely fans that commented in the early days. And they were saying, you know, you’re kind of like the, every man on star Trek, Voyager, you’re really, you’re like the window into, into Starfleet like we see everything through your characters eyes.

And I said, yeah, I get that. You know, I, I do see that. And he was the blank. He was a blank canvas. He just graduated from Starfleet Academy. This is his first posting, his very first mission. So really, you know, he’s got a ton of book learning, but he has no on the job experience, right. This is his very first job.

And I think [00:03:00] that’s something. That everyone can relate to. So he is the most relatable character right off the bat. Right. Cause everybody has the first day at work the first day in high school, the first day F you know, everyone has experienced the first day of something, whereas not everyone can watch Voyager and say, yep, I have been the captain of a star ship before, you know, you can’t really relate to Janeway, you know, off the bat.

You can relate to her if you’re a woman watching another woman on screen saying, okay. Yeah. But Kim, by far, Harry Kim is. The one character that everyone can say, I understand what he’s going through. So, yeah.

Jeff: And I think that was fantastic. I think when another very intelligent thing they did in Voyager is that they teamed me up with Robert mean deal’s character and mean you guys.

It’s kind of, I guess he was kind of like the character kind of like the mentor for Kim and kind of taught him how things really are in the world. And I think that was done so well. What, because you guys are, I guess you and Robert  intrinsic, intrinsically linked, I guess, forever in the world of star Trek.

Yeah. How was he, what was it like to [00:04:00] work with them?

Garret Wang: Oh, it was great. He is, he, at that point had been Robbie, I call him Robbie Robbie. And the thing is we had, we had three Roberts on the show, so we right off the bat, right. In the very beginning, we had to make a delineation between the three Roberts.

So Robert Duncan McNeil took on the role of Robbie. So we all said, Robbie Robert Beltran became Robert and then Robert Picardo, the doctor became Bob so that we had Robert, Bob and Robbie and Robbie had been, you know, he’d been acting forever. He had done Broadway. He went to Julliard, you know, so it was sort of, he was a lifer, you know, he’d been doing it forever.

And the minute I first, the time I remember the first time I saw him, I was being introduced to him when we were doing some some hair department tests on how to do my, get my hair a certain way. And I, I just bumped into him right outside the hair trailer. And the production assistant assistant that was walking me into the hair appointment, [00:05:00] introduced me.

He said, and this is Robbie McNeill. This is Robert Duncan McNeill. He’s playing the role of Tom Paris. And I looked at him and I thought, Oh, you are masters of the universe. You know? Cause I, I remember that movie, when that movie came out it’s him and a what’s her face from friends? Courtney. Yeah.

They’re the liens in that? It’s a really young Robbie, right. He’s fresh faced. And, but I knew right off the bat who he was, and I was, I was like star struck. I was like, Oh my God, it’s him. Because I love that movie. I thought that movie was awesome. It was such a guilty pleasure, kind of cheesy, you know, movie.

I loved it. So, you know, when I met him, I’m like, Oh, it’s just so cool. And and he talks about his, our first meeting on our podcast that we do the Delta flyers. He talks about how, cause I asked him what was your first impression of me? And he said, I thought you were part of this young hip Hollywood.

You know, you were this young hip Hollywood actor. I remember you had some. Some young actress, you know, really [00:06:00] pretty good at gal that was with you. And I don’t remember that at all. I’m like, I go, who was with me? I don’t remember this. And then I started thinking, Oh, I might’ve been my friend Holly fields.

I don’t know. So, but but his, his impression was that I was the cool kid on the block, you know, and I, and my freshman was like, Oh, I loved you on masters of the universe. So it was like, this is crazy, you know, first meeting. So working with him was great because. Right off the bat. I, I liked him immediately.

He’s such a funny guy. He’s, he’s really his sense of humor above all else I felt was, was better than everyone. Else’s like everyone on Voyager has a great sense of humor. They’re all funny. If you watch Voyager, the misconception is there’s only one funny person on the show, the doctor, but that’s not true.

Everybody on that show off camera is hilarious in their own. Right. But Robbie. Is a cut above all. Like he he’s even funnier than everyone else. It’s just like, Oh my God. So working with him, especially off camera was great and on-camera was good. We had great chemistry [00:07:00] there. The only, you know, thing that I, that I was bummed about was that he was, he never had any free time to hang out.

Like every time we wrapped, I was like, Hey, let’s go get a beer. And he’d look at me like, Oh God, I really would like to, but I gotta get home. You know, the wife, the kids, like, yeah, three young kids. It was like four to an infant is what he had, you know, that he was dealing with. So he couldn’t, you know, he couldn’t spend any, any time off-camera with me.

So really the one person that I spent. I would say most of my time off camera was commander  Robert Bell trends, you know, 15 years older than me. So literally out another generation. Right. But yeah, he was single, he wasn’t married. So he was he was free to do stuff, you know, so he became my best bud off camera.

But but yeah, but in terms of chemistry with, with McNeil, with Robbie, it was great and it was great to work with him and things flowed well, So

Jeff: you just mentioned that you guys do the w [00:08:00] dental flyers podcast. No worries. So for our listeners, what is the Delta fire

Garret Wang: podcasts. Yeah. There, just to clarify.

There is a podcast called the Delta flier without the S singular. And that is a podcast by two Voyager fans. They have reviewed all the way up to the end of season two, and then they stopped. And then we came up with, or I came up with the Delta fliers with an S at the end, and this is a podcast idea that I’ve had for probably a decade.

And I’ve been wanting to do like a show that a recap show. Talking about each episode of Voyager for over 10 years now. And and really I had this idea before any of the other podcasts that are based on shows with actors from the show. So for instance, office, ladies are two of the act, the series regulars from the office, talking about their show that came out before, before ours.

But my, I had this idea before they even. Even thought about before the office was even the [00:09:00] office probably. And then same thing with the community, that show, I think a couple of those guys are doing a podcast talking about their show. So I had this idea for a long time and. You know, it was really the pandemic that sort of put this into high gear.

I did do a podcast before the Delta fliers called the alpha quadrant for about a year and a half, and then it stopped. And that was with the actor that played at nog on D space nine Oh Aaron Eisenberg, who has since passed. He he passed away unexpectedly and 2019 in September. And so we had done that podcast together and we were kind of like reviewing discovery episodes.

And then we started reviewing DS nine and Voyager back and forth, but then things happen politics. And then the podcast ended. So then, you know, when the pandemic hit, I sat there and I thought, Hmm, Maybe I can finally do my idea, the Voyager re re you know, the recap, [00:10:00] the review with the discussion of Voyager episodes.

And then it was my significant other Megan who said, Hey, why don’t you ask Robbie to be a cohost? And I thought, huh? I mean, I’ve had that idea to ask Robbie, because if you think about Paris and Kim it’s like peanut butter and jelly, they go together. Right. It makes sense. But. When I initially thought about this idea I thought there’s no way he could do it.

I mean, he has been, he’s been a very busy director of, of television for forever. Ever since he finished Voyager, when Voyager ended, he stopped acting. He went right into directing and he’s been directing, you know ever since. And directing really high profile stuff. Like he’s, he’s at the top of his, his biz when it comes to television directors, he’s right up there.

So he’s been directing and producing TV shows. So I thought there’s no way, but once we were in the middle of the pandemic Megan said, I bet you he’s not doing anything right now. And I [00:11:00] said, huh. So in March I called him and I S March of 2020, and I said, Hey, Here’s my idea. What do you think he’s like, huh?

Let me call you back tomorrow. And he called me back. He’s like, okay. I am interested, but we have to talk about a few things. Like who’s going to edit this, how are we going to do this? How are we gonna do that? So he had a thousand questions and I’m going, Oh my God, I don’t know. We’ll figure it out together.

Remember peanut butter and jelly. And he was like, Oh, okay. So we did, we launched in may of 2020 and we launched on star Wars day. So on May 4th is when we we kind of started the whole thing up. We started on May 5th is what we did. So the day after star Wars day it’s when we premiered our first episode.

And it immediately first month we got over a hundred thousand downloads. Wow. Yeah, it was just people, people were ready for it, you know? And so it’s available on, you know, Wherever you get your [00:12:00] podcasts from whether it’s Spotify or iTunes. We have we have a free version that anybody can listen to.

And then we have a subscription service through Patrion, patrion.com. Allows people to put up their work. And have subscription levels. And so we have the, the Ensign level Lieutenant level, the commander level, the captain level, the Admiral level. And so these are different levels that you pay a monthly subscription fee to, and you end up receiving bonuses and also bonus content.

So we will actually record we’ll record the show, and then we’ll add another, anywhere from 15 to another 30 minutes of bonus. Talk, you know, where we get a little, we, we dive a little bit deeper into the episode. We’ll tell a few more stories that we wouldn’t tell on the, on the free one, you know? And so that’s available to our, our Patrion Patrion patrons and at the highest level at the Admiral level those guys, they get a monthly zoom call.

For anywhere between, [00:13:00] it’s usually about an hour and a half, maybe sometimes two hours where Robbie and I are on a zoom call with the admirals. And we, we just talk about, you know, Voyager life, whatever, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s sort of like a VIP meet and greet in a way. Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff: That is absolutely awesome.

What, for those people like me who are doing podcasts and obviously trying to, to grow, to grow our podcasts, what kind of advice would you give people like me about how to best promote and produce a worthwhile

Garret Wang: podcast? Hm. You know, you have to really, you have to think wisely about how are you going to market yourself?

You know, like, what am I, well, who’s my target audience, you know, where do I what Facebook discussion groups should I, should I appear on to like, Drop hints about, Hey guys, you know, there’s this cool podcast that I’m doing, blah, blah, blah. Like you got to figure out who’s going to be interested in listening to your podcasts.

That’s probably the most important thing. So finding your target audience and being able to market it well online, whether [00:14:00] it’s through Facebook or as Twitter, Instagram, but you do need an online, you need a social media presence, you know, so and then whatever name you’ve come up with, that should be your, that should be your.

Address at every, you know, don’t be one name on Twitter and then a whole different name on Instagram and a whole different name on it. It shouldn’t be the same all the way through. So like for us, you’re at the Delta flyers on everything on Instagram, on we have a discord, we have we have a Facebook private group for those that are.

Part of the Patrion and Facebook public group, those for those that are just listening for free, you know, so we’ve, we’ve really tried to attack it on, on every single level that we can when it comes to social media. And then and then really, really do things like we’ve we did one thing where we. We had a contest where we were giving away these, these limited edition, we printed up five special Christmas holiday mugs that had all of our characters in cartoon version with holiday, you know, hats and sweaters on and [00:15:00] stuff like that.

And we did a giveaway and the giveaway was let’s hear the most inventive five star review. For our podcast, you know that you put up the review and show us proof that you did that review and we’ll drop you into a drawing for these mugs. So we did con we did that contest to sort of generate more reviews and cool reviews, you know, so that these are all little, little tiny steps that you take towards.

Getting a larger viewership. We’re in talks with a couple of, of of companies right now that want to do some sponsorship deals too. So yeah, so that’s, that’s basically, it’s just really realizing that you have to put your business hat on, you know, so and that’s, that’s something that, for those of you out there that are actors that you have to realize.

It’s called show business for a reason. And it’s literally 10% show, 90% business. And a lot of people that are creative, a lot of actors would shun that they was like, I’m an artist, I’m a creator. [00:16:00] I don’t. Pandered a business, you know, and it’s like, well, if you don’t pander to business, you’re not going to get it.

Or, you know, you really have to know that you’ve got to, you’ve got to put on your actor hat at times to do your work, but then it’s literally self promotion you’re promoting the product you’re promoting is yourself, you know, and you have to take a business attitude about that and understand how, what it is to have a successful business, you know, and.

First and foremost, people have to know about it. You can’t, you can’t succeed. If you open up a restaurant, how are you going to succeed? If no one knows you exist? You know? So it’s really about, yeah. It’s really about placing yourself in the right. Right. Positioning yourself in the right circles, right.

In the, in the right platforms. And we’ve done a decent job. We could do a better job for sure. You know Robbie mentioned the other day. He was like, yeah, I feel like our, our patrons our patrons on Patrion, it’s sort of. It’s probably leveled off. I go. No, it’s, it’s, it’s still a constant. We [00:17:00] keep adding more patrons subscribers.

Like there they’re definitely, there was a big rush in the beginning from all the diehards, but now it’s more of the, the fringe fans, the fans that, that they love the show, but they’re not. You know, scouring the internet for every tidbit, you know, of information on Tom Paris or Harry Kim. And these people are sell finally, like, Oh, I had no clue.

You guys are doing this podcast. So even now, you know, coming up on this year in may will be our one year anniversary of doing the podcast. There’s still people that are just learning about it. So we still could do a better job in advertising ourselves as well. So. That’s something I plan on doing a goal or new year’s resolution is being a little bit better of a businessman.

Jeff: Well, while you guys are reviewing star Trek, Voyager episodes, are you finding that you guys are learning and picking up new things in this episodes, even about your own characters that you didn’t know before?

Garret Wang: There’s definitely times that we’ll watch an episode. And so just to let you [00:18:00] know that our format is we’ll get together on a, on a zoom call and we’ll do the intro and the intro is basically.

Welcome to the Delta fliers. You know, we’re a podcast that reviews and comments on each episode of Voyager are your hosts to host along this journey are myself and Robert Duncan McNeil and Tom Paris. And then I’ll be like, Hey Robbie, what’s going on? You know, how’s it going? Oh yeah, you just you just moved to Vancouver, you’re directing a new, so we’ll, we’ll do a quick intro just talking about daily life and then And then we say, okay, well it’s time for us to to play a little game of what do we remember for our Patrion patrons.

So then we do a little extra bonus segment for them and for everybody else stay tuned as Robbie and I go watch the episode. So then we literally physically, we record the intro, put it on, pause on zoom, go watch the episode, take notes and come back. And then we, that we discuss. And then that’s the body of the podcast.

And nine times out of 10, we’ll be like, I have no clue that I filmed that scene. No. Right. They’re like, well, what the [00:19:00] heck? Or like, what did I just say? Or like, you know, what did, I didn’t know, I did that, you know, so we’re always finding things that we forgot about or didn’t, you know, but still it’s, it’s super fun because there are times that.

He’ll remember something, something will trigger him and he’ll come up with like, Oh my God. I remember that, that when we were working with that dog in the show that dog would not do the one thing that it had to do or, you know, I’ll talk about, yeah. In that one episode with the, with the Hawk, you remember the Hawk flew away, like it did one take and then on the second, take it like left the owner or the trainer and flew to like Bakersfield.

It was like, bye I’m gone like that. So like these little, little. Those stories. We’ll S we’ll be resurrected because of the watch of the rewatch. We’ll be like, Holy crap. I remember that now. So yeah, we always find new stuff.

Jeff: Well, th th there’s one episode, if you want to ask about that I’m on the star Trek Voyager fan fan group on Facebook.

Okay. And I did. Posts that I’m interviewing you. And does anyone have [00:20:00] any questions they want me to ask? And the 1% you had a 1%. A really good question. Okay. Is a gentleman named Greg? I’m going to get the name wrong. I’m gonna apologize ahead of time. I suck with names  I think is how repeat pronounces it.

How do you spell it? W E R E S Z K

Garret Wang: O.

Jeff: Wow. Yeah. So I’m going with Roscoe and cause he’s cause I did message him saying, is it, how do you say it? He did say the w sound like a V. So I’m going to go with fresco.

Garret Wang: Sounds like a Polish name or check name or something like that. Eastern European name. It could

Jeff: be like either way.

I know I’m going to get,

Garret Wang: you did a very good job. I think you did well. Oh,

Jeff: thank you. Yep. He, his question was about an episode called deadlock. Okay. Which would probably, which obviously, you know, cause you were one of the main the main characters in the episode. Yeah. The, in that episode, the original Ensign Kim is replaced by a duplicate.

Yeah, from that point forward, it’s always the duplicate and send Kim that we see on the show. Did you, did that change at all? How you approach the character that changed how maybe you act as the character. And did that ever [00:21:00] play up later on in the series? Like, Oh, by the way, this is not the original one.

Garret Wang: No, no people joke about how that’s people joke about. That’s why you never got promoted because you were not the real Harry camper. But then we just reviewed that episode recently on our podcast. And we, we kind of have a debate going on there because. Some people believe that that Harry Kim is the only original to survive it.

Everybody else has a duplicate. Okay. So cause it’s, it’s very confusing in terms of what, who is the real, who is the who’s the original and who is the copy. But there again, there are some that believe that. That Kim is the only one left alive, and everybody else is a duplicate. But if you’re going off of what Greg is asking, and if we assume that that the Harry that survives is the duplicate.

No, it didn’t change the way I acted at all, because if you think about it, he’s an exact copy. So there really shouldn’t be any difference in terms of how he acts. But no, and there is really zero reference to, to that later on. And, you know, that’s kind of how Voyager. That’s how they can see [00:22:00] Voyager.

They can see each episode to be a high concept episode that just standalone because they wanted somebody, they wanted, they wanted someone who was not a star Trek fan to be able to channel surf, come across it and go, Oh, okay. And get into the show and become a fan of a show after one episode. You see what I’m saying?

So yeah, a lot of the shows they sort of stand, they don’t have a lot of reference to other episodes. So yeah,

Jeff: an interesting philosophical situation for that character to be in, to be the duplicate, you kind of wish they revisited and kind of looked into what it would be like in a psychology to know that he wasn’t.

The real one or the

Garret Wang: original one. Yeah. Yeah, that’d be cool. I would have loved that. You know, that would be nice. That would have been an interesting exploration of that character. I always

Jeff: felt when you watch a Voyager that they could have done more with. Kim that I kind of felt like once I got it, I do love the character.

And second I am, I love the show, but that they kind of trapped him a little bit [00:23:00] and not developed him as the show can continue. Do you feel that

Garret Wang: similar? Yeah. What was. I think the most the most difficult hurdle to get over for those writers was giving adequate character development to all nine series regulars.

So if you think about that and if you break it down to, let’s say 20 episodes a year, you know, each character is getting like one, maybe two episodes that focus on their character and that’s it. And. With the arrival of seven and nine in season four Voyager season four, five, and six really became the Dr.

Janeway seven show. It’s like all these episodes, what was on those three characters and everybody else, we were given tidbits, you know, so it’s tough. And as a writer, I think that’s a bit of a cop out because it’s so much easier to write for the doctor. Than it is for Harry Kim so much easier, right. For seven to nine than it is for Harry Kim, [00:24:00] because, you know, for those two characters, the doctrines of nine, they’re almost the same in that.

This episode, let’s focus on what it’s like for seven and nine to go on a date for the first time. You know, let’s focus on this episode, on the doctor getting a cold for the first time. So it’s like, you know, it’s again, they did the same thing with data and T and G it’s easier. So easy to write for data.

It’s so easy to write for, for seven and nine or for the doctor that it’s a bit of a cop-out it’s, it’s, it’s kind of like lazy on the part of the writers. I think they really they sat there and said, Hmm, Okay, should I. Take the time to put on clothes, get in my car and drive to the restaurant or can I just call delivery?

And so, you know, when you write an episode for the doctor or seven of nine, you are just, you’re doing delivery. You’re just, you’re like, I’m not going to get up. I’m not going to take the time or the effort to go to the restaurant. Neat. And so if you want to do a Harry Kim storyline or Tom [00:25:00] Paris, or , you got to put on your clothes, get in your car and go to the restaurant.

And nine times out of 10, especially in the later episode letters, seasons of Voyager, the writers were like, nah, I’ll take the easy way. You know? Right. Right. So, yeah, and I don’t, you know, I don’t blame them. I’m not criticizing them. I understand. That’s human nature. If you see two paths and one is covered in, in, in thorns and thickets, and it’s not paved, you’re going to take the page.

Right. Right. So I have, you know, there’s no love lost with the writers. I mean, when they did. Do a hairy episode, they did do a good job, but you know, like I said, it’s so much easier to do a seven episode or a Dr. Episode than a hairy episode. So yeah. So it was unfortunate, but that’s the way it, you know, that’s the way it ended up.

Jeff: Do you think they were, they took input from you on your character at all? W like, did you feel like you had the freedom to be like,

Garret Wang: Hey, no. No, no. Yeah. That’s, that’s definitely one thing I [00:26:00] I’ve regretted this whole entire time. Cause I, you know, I, I fed them a lot of ideas I did and they were shot down repeatedly and it was like, I, one of my ideas was I said, okay, I know when next generation WARF was able to, you see Wharf doing judo, you know, or some martial arts.

I said, Hey, I want Harry Kim to do some martial arts. You know? And so I even, I even went as far as, as, as training and Krav Maga is the Israeli  self-defense system. And I thought, I’m going to get it, I’m going to, if they’re going to say for sure, you know  we’re, we’re definitely gonna, you know, Greenlight that idea.

No, they were like, it wasn’t like that. I said how about we have a ship wide talent show and, and some Kim gets up and does his impersonation of. The doctor and of Jane way. And they were like, nah, but you know, it was horrible because there’s probably five times three or four, three to five times that that people do impersonations of other people on the [00:27:00] show Barclay from TNG fame, he comes on and hit.

He does his impersonation of Janeway. 79 has the doctor inside her body. So she does the impersonation of the doctor and all these scenes that have. Series regulars or guest stars doing impersonations of other characters in the show. They have written me into the scene standing next to that person.

And it’s not only are we going to rip that bandaid off of you off your wound. We’re going to now throw salt in that wound and make you watch someone else do their impersonation of who you can do. You know, just as well or better and, and suffer. And it was like, Oh please. But my whole thing, my, my biggest question or my biggest suggestion, the entire time was more comedy amongst the human characters.

Hmm, or comedy amongst the human characters, you watch the original series at the end of every original series. There’s always that light banter that happens between Kirk Spock bones. They’re all in on it. Right. [00:28:00] But on Voyager, literally 97% of the humor was given to the doctor. 3% was given to Neil X and that’s it.

Everybody else got Jack and I kept thinking, come on, you are literally. Wasting your resources here. And when, I mean, resources I’m talking about the God-given talent or the God-given sense of humor, that all these other characters that are not the doc  have, but you’re not it, you know, you’re not utilizing that.

Why wouldn’t you utilize that? And that’s, that was just so frustrating. And there are times when I wanted to try to suggest the line change because. Writers will write stuff, but they won’t say it out loud. So once you say a line out loud, sometimes it becomes a tongue twister and it doesn’t come out very, very smoothly and it’s awkward.

So I would call the office to ask for a line change nine times out of 10. Nope. Not approved to make it work. And it was like, ah, make it work. When you try to say these damn lines, you know, this technobabble, let’s see [00:29:00] how good you are at it. You know? So, yeah. So there was definitely frustration on my part in that a lot of my suggestions when they went on, they were, they fell on deaf ears.

The only thing that I could’ve done differently is. Be a little bit more persistent in terms of just needling them to the point of too, until they finally kind of gave in, which is what the doctor did. I mean, the doctor would call up and say, hello, Bob Picardo here. I’d like to suggest that the Dr.

Singh’s Italian opera and they were like, no, Bob. We’re not going to prove that it’s Tuesday. I’m just wondering if the doctor can sing Italian opera and they’re like, no, Bob. And he would call and call and call and call until finally they were like, fine. He will sing Italian opera stopped calling us. So, you know, Bob really.

He got stuff pushed through. There are a lot of things that he didn’t, but he’s still because of his persistence. He got stuff done. So he, he, you know, I admire him for the fact that he put his business hat on and he just, he was relentless [00:30:00] in terms of getting some of the things that, that the doctor ended up doing were suggested by him.

And they, they went through, the only suggestion I had that was approved was at one point, I said, I don’t want to play the clarinet anymore. I want to play the saxophone. And so they put a saxophone in my quarters. You never see me playing the saxophone, but you see towards the, you know, the final seasons of Voyager, there is no law, hunger, a clarinet.

There is a saxophone sitting there. Whether that had anything to do with. Watching president Clinton, who was the president at the time we were filming Voyager, playing the saxophone. I don’t know, but I just thought I would really like a more hip cooler instrument than the clarinet. And I apologize to all you clarinet band players out there, but saxophone was sexier than the clarinet in my eyes at the time.

So. Now

Jeff: now were they receptive to other accurate to the doctor who was able to push his way to get what he wanted, where they were accepted, more receptive other actors, but they’re suggesting no,

Garret Wang: no, they really weren’t.

Jeff: It was an entire writing staff thing of basically [00:31:00] we’re going to do things our way.

Yes. That’s, that’s odd because like a lot of other shows you hear about how there’s always like a communication between the actors and the writers. It’s kind of interesting. No, screw it now.

Garret Wang: And I thought it was just us. I thought is this, is this some personal vendetta against the Voyager actors, but I’ve, I’ve heard since, you know, I mean, in the years, since the end of Voyager, I’ve heard that the same thing went on with.

TNG, you know, the next gen guys had a suggestion and they would they’d call up the writers and the writers like, Nope. So it was it’s, it’s been like that for, for decades now, you know? So it wasn’t just us.

Jeff: That sounds so myopic in their view in looking from their perspective. I mean, the, the actors know their characters many times better than even the writers.

Do they have worthwhile input? Yeah,

Garret Wang: I agree and ownership too. Yeah. So as good of a show that voyage as, as good of a show that Voyager is Voyager could have been even better show if collaboration was a word that the writers [00:32:00] agreed upon, you know, if they were open to suggestion and then said, okay, you know, let’s just, let’s, let’s, let’s listen to what this actor has to say, you know?

It would have been a better show by far? Well,

Jeff: one episode that you were in that it was absolutely phenomenal was the episode timeless, but do you get to play the older Anson Kim who is realizing the mistake that he made and it goes into the well is in the future sends signal back to try to save the life of the crew to cover his mistake.

Yeah. What kind of decisions were you making as an actor to to be the older and and, and some cam, and also obviously the director was LaVar bird. And what was also like working with him.

Garret Wang:  Whenever you work with directors that started as actors. It’s good because they know what you’re going through.

You know? So any time that they’re sensing any uncomfortability from the actors, they usually have a good word or, or something to say or some something to [00:33:00] do that helps that actor feel more comfortable because that’s how the best work happens. If you’re, if you’re relaxed, you know, it’s the same thing with sports, you know, if you’re all tight and tense, you can’t.

You can’t properly, properly perform whatever sport that you’re doing. And same thing with acting, you need to be relaxed. And having a director who started as an actor is a plus for sure. And LaVar is you know, very open and generous individuals. So it was good to having him there. The the way that I, I chose to.

Portray the older Kim really was just, it came from my, my preparation for that episode. I knew about probably about a month earlier that this episode was going to revolve around me. I got a call from, from Brennan Braga, the executive producer of one of the executive producers of Voyager. And he said he said, get ready.

I said what’s why he said I’m in about a month. We’re going to be filming the hundredth episode of [00:34:00] Voyager. This is going to be the signature episode of this series. We initially thought that we wanted to make it a two-parter. But then we reconsidered and felt, Hmm, we’re going to make it one episode, a standalone episode, not a two-parter.

And we want this to be our city on the edge of forever in reference to the original series episode, which is considered the best tos episode city on the edge of forever. So yeah, in their mind, they wanted this to be the best Voyager episode of all. And, and I said, well, that’s cool. And he says, and it revolves around Kim.

So get ready, get your sleep don’t party too much, you know, make sure you’re focused in and, and and, and get this thing done. I said, I’m ready, man. I’m ready. And so so when I got the script, I was just reading through and I was like, Oh man, So, you know, you there’s two Kim’s there’s there’s there’s Kim that, you know, from, you know, from watching everything up to season, season up to the [00:35:00] hundredth episode, and then there’s the Kim that’s 15 years older than that Kim and that Kim has already seen all everyone die except for Dakota.

So how. Do I play that Kim that kill him is clearly racked with guilt. That Kim is clearly bitter through and through like every atom of his body is just saturated with guilt and bitterness. Right. So he had to be definitely less optimistic, definitely more. Kurt in his line delivery more to the point.

And just not as cheery as the Kim that you normally know, not as eager Beaver to someone who’s sort of just seen it all. And, and as, and is a little bit shell-shocked I might add somebody who’s who’s who has been dealing with a certain measure of PTSD in a way. Right. So so that’s, you know, that’s how I prepared and.

Really, [00:36:00] that is the one episode where fans can see Acting. I mean, if you look a lot of the episodes, it’s Kim on the bridge and he’s reading lines that are expositional lines, you know, in terms of shields are down 30% captain, this is just a line of information. That’s it, it’s an, a line of information that Janeway will take, and then she moves onto the next character and says, well, to tell me about this, then I, or Chakota, let’s do this.

It’s just information. So really when you, when you’re an actor on a TV show and you’re giving expositional lines, it’s very difficult to showcase. The level of acting ability within that, you know, that, that, that, that I possess that, that, that the actor possesses by, by reading expositional lines, you just can’t.

Because you’re really just showcasing one note. It’s a very one note performance when you read. Shields are down to 30%, you know, there’s how many ways can you say that? You know, you can’t sing [00:37:00] it, shields are down to 30%, you know, and you can’t be like, Oh my God, no, 30%. I can’t act like super scared.

I’m I’m a member of Starfleet, I’m bumping part of the, basically in the military, I’ve got to do my job and I’ve got to do it and get it done. And I can’t sit there and like act afraid, you know? So yeah, so there’s not a lot of acting that I get to showcase. So. Timeless. I was able to showcase my acting and I remember.

Filming the scene where I, where I figure out the, the right coordinates and I, and I realize I finally done what I need to do to save the day I’m going to get my friends back. It’s this cathartic moment. And when the director yelled, cut. Bob Ricardo, the doctor was in that scene with me and he walked over to me and he goes, carrot.

You can act, which was such a backhanded compliment. I mean, I sat there screw you. I mean, tearing you thought I was some total Blemo, you know, Crappy actor for the first five years. And [00:38:00] now you say I can act, it really pissed me off. And at the same time, I was proud that he said that to me, I felt like, Oh, my uncle has given me a prop, you know, he’s patting me on the back.

But I also felt like, screw you for saying that. He’s saying, he’s telling me this five years into the show, you know? But. It’s no fault of his, you know, just like anyone else watching the show when he sat home and watched the newest episode that we filmed the first four years, it’s all Kim saying shields down to 30%, you know, so he’s probably going and he trained monkey could have been done that, you know, it could have been any Asian guy that, the cast for that role, you know?

So I don’t blame,

Jeff: I mean, that doesn’t make you, is it, does it make you angry to know that. Yeah. For those years, for first four years, that people were viewing you as an actor based on only. Those types of

Garret Wang: lines. It’s not anger, anger. It’s just frustration. You know? Cause I remember Ethan Phillips walking to me, walking up to [00:39:00] me, season three, he was like you know, Garrett, you should consider possibly doing theater one day and I’m like, Hmm, you remember the five years I was struggling, you know, with arguing with my parents, I had to do theater.

I did theater all the time. Groundbreaking theater. I, you know, I I play so apart away from my type in a theater role called porcelain play the part of John. I was John Lee or John you, I can’t remember the last name now. It’s so long now, but I played the lead in that. I played a British Chinese British Chinese teenager, gay teenager that is dealing with in prison for a crime of passion, from an older Irish blue collar worker that he murders in a fit of rage.

And so this is so opposite of me because a I’m not British B, I’m not gay C I’m not a teenager. I got all these things that I, so I’m sitting here going. Hmm. Thanks. Ethan reminded me. I should possibly try theater one day, because again, same thing. He just like Bob Ricardo [00:40:00] watching every episode of Voyager when it came out new episode at home and they would see me say she’ll down to 30% and think, wow.

That’s so unimpressive, you know, so so it’s not anger, it’s just frustration, but I finally, you got validated and, and, and, you know I, I was able to, to not have the last laugh, but really just from that episode, timeless alone, I was able to put my stamp on this show and say, yep. I deserve to be here.

You know what I’m saying? Like this is the right call. I was supposed to be in St. Kim, not every, not every Asian guy could have pulled off that role that I pulled off the performance that I, that I gave in timeless. You know what I’m saying? To be a completely, completely different character. 15 years later someone who’s just hired to speak exposition is not going to be able to pull that off.

Period. Somebody who is not trained as an actor done enough theater is not going to pull that off. So and that was the one episode that people realized, Oh, he wasn’t just hired off the street. You know, he wasn’t walking down the road, he wasn’t at Starbucks and go, Hey, you’re Asian. Let’s go, let’s give you this [00:41:00] role on star Trek.

No. Right. So so yeah, so definitely not anger, just frustration, just really frustrated. It’s kind

Jeff: of, I was talking to an interview a couple days ago with a JG hurtsler from he was in deep space, nine Durbar talk. And I was talking to him about how actors inside defy don’t ever get the recognition they deserve as actors, because they do find themselves pigeon-holed into doing, like you said, exposition technical jargon lines.

Yeah. And I, I was thinking, like I said, that must have been you know, a, a fantastic thing to be able to do a scene, like timeless improve that, you know, that it go beyond the Saifai kind of hold that they kind of stuck you in for a few

Garret Wang: years. Yeah, it is. It is really gratifying, but it’s only gratifying because.

It’s gratifying to a point. And when I say, when I say that I’m referring to the fact that it’s the diehard Trek fans, the diehard scifi fan that have stuck around long enough to season five, to have seen that and say, Hey, he can really, he does have the acting chops, but from a casual viewer, from someone who’s [00:42:00] not a scifi fan, if they’re channel surfing, They’re all going to think that guy is that guy’s like a trained monkey.

Oh, he says his like shields are down to 30% and that’s, they’re not going think anything. Right. And that’s one of the, that’s one of the frustrating things that those that are not Saifai or Trek fans out there They don’t get it. They don’t get it. Like when you go to, when you watch the Emmys or you watch the Academy awards, no Saifai project is nominated for best acting ensemble or best actor best, you know, they’re not, they’re always, it’s always star Trek, Voyager wins or best visual effects.

They win the Emmy for best visual effects, but not for best acting because the general consensus, especially amongst fans amongst. Viewers of television and film that are not fans of scifi is that science fiction is for kids. It’s kids show, you know, this is like for Saturday morning, it’s not real, you know, it’s not, it’s not it’s not it’s not worthy of an Academy award.

It’s not worthy of an Oscar or an Emmy. Well, [00:43:00] that is that’s that, you know, and I used to say, I say this all the time during Emmy’s time, like on our show, I’m like, you know what sucks everybody? I said, we do do some good work here. We’re not acknowledged for it. And the only way that we would get nominated for best acting in sambal is if aliens showed up and made, known who they were today.

Cause then people would be like, Oh my God, star Trek is not. You know, made up it’s real. Raelians you know, so I kind of, we kind of need independence. Data really happened for this for star Trek to get the respect they deserve. I think it’s the same as

Jeff: the entire genera of scifi. Cause I’m I’m my day job, I’m an English teacher and I teach English obviously literature all the time.

And I mean the entire curriculum and I teach all four years of high school, ninth, 10th. I teach it at therapeutic high school. Yeah. There is literally no scifi books in the curriculum, like at all, anywhere. Like no, even Isaac Asimov. No, not at all. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s like the entire Gianna is immediately just like.

Thrown out you know, out of hand it, now this is not worth it’s [00:44:00] quality literature, you know,

Garret Wang: that’s very frustrating, you know, it should be there. As a mom, there’s so many great scifi writers out there that are klutzy Clara, of course, that they need to be showcased within in our schools and our elementary schools or junior, junior highs or middle schools.

Right. But it’s not, so, yeah. Science fiction, fantasy, you know, these, these are the genres that, that. Still do not garner the respect they deserve.

Jeff: And the only thing I was thinking well, while you had great chemistry with Tom Paris’s character Robert Yoakam powers, did you think that relationship also limited what potential they gave your character?

Garret Wang: Hmm. Can you clarify that?

Jeff: Because the, the ship, the way it was on starting Voyager, usually when there’s incent Kim there’s Tom Paris and you’re, and you’re kind of set up as like a unit. Yeah. Do you think that limited interaction cause he didn’t have as much time with other crew members to kind of expand possibilities?

Garret Wang: No, that [00:45:00] does bother me. I, I think it’s. I think again, we’re dealing with the nine series regulars. That’s, that’s more of the issue of, of why they didn’t write more storylines with, with Harry interacting with Dakota or Harry and Neil X. You know, I mean, that’s just, just by the nature of the beast, you know, they just, they couldn’t do it.

It’s just, it was easier to compartmentalize the Harry Kim relationship, which I’m fine with. I mean, literally if you, if you talk about Dubose and star Trek, that’s probably the strongest. Pairing of you know, of all the pairings, like if you’re looking at TNG or original series or, or  nothing is, is a stronger bond than the Tom and Harry Bond.

I think that’s that’s, that is the peanut butter and jelly of star Trek.

Jeff: I mean, that’s not exactly true. Well, obviously one of the, obviously one, the running jokes, obviously with Kim, is that the Ensign thing as your tail handed forever. And they’re just [00:46:00] really funny. Yeah. Th th did it piss you off that they just never just gave, I mean, the funny thing about star Trek is that you have, when they have the officer’s meeting, when they had the big decisions to make, and they have an Ensign sitting at the table, anything at some point when he makes the big decision, he’s coming up big for it.

You know, the, the crew, at some point you got to promote at least some, some at least in an episode, did that just piss you off? Like why the hell did they just not do that?

Garret Wang: Yeah. Again very frustrating knowing that everyone else around me was getting promoted and people were getting demoted. Then remoted promoted is like, what is that happening?

There was even an episode where, where I think Paris gets a promotion and then I’m like, where’s my PIP. Like even they broke that line into Gary’s dialogue. It’s like, where’s my promotion. Like what. Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense, but also people have to understand that he’s still Ensign is the most junior officer.

So he is an officer. It’s not crewman Kim it’s it’s Ensign Kim. Right. So more of an obscure ranking because it’s only navel, right? You don’t have incidence in the army. You don’t have incidence in the air force. [00:47:00] You do have ensigns in the Navy, that’s it? And it’s the most junior officer. So There is that misconception by some that, Oh, he was just the private, you know, he was like the rookie yeah, he’s new, but he’s still an officer.

He’s the most junior officer, but he’s still an officer. But yeah, typically I actually bumped into somebody that was in the us Navy and I asked them, I said, okay. So if you’re an Ensign, Seven years later, what are you? And they’re like, Hmm. Almost Lieutenant commander. I go, thank you. Okay. Almost cannon commander.

So yeah, cause you’re, you’re, you know, the ranking goes from Ensign to Lieutenant junior grade, then full Lieutenant then Lieutenant commander. Right. So I should have. Almost made commander basically by the end of Voyager when we got home and Nope, he was still an incidence. So hence forever incident is the moniker I’ve been using.

Like every video game that I play. That’s the name of that calendar I go under forever. If you’re playing anything on online and you, you see that name, you’re like, Oh, that’s Garrett. [00:48:00] So

Jeff: see what they need to do as an alternate app, sort of timeless where 15 years later, Harry Kim has been  promoted and he’s like,  those guys.

Let them die. I got my promotion and just run with it. Credits,

Garret Wang: roll. Yeah. The joke that I always talk about at conventions when people ask, so what happened to Harry? Like what’s Harry doing now all these years after the end of Voyager, I said, Oh, it’s so simple. Harry never got promoted. So he was so frustrated that he quit Starfleet, but in a way of sort of.

Getting back at the Starfleet brass. He rents. The office space, right by the entrance where he rents the, the, the commercial space by the entrance of Starfleet headquarters in San Francisco. And he opens up Admiral Kim’s bar and grill is what I said. That’s awesome. Come on down to Admiral Kim’s barn grill.

We’re only ensigns and lower get a discount. That’s

Jeff: awesome.

[00:49:00] Garret Wang: And actually with forever incident, I’m about, I’m about to launch. A website under that name with some really cool t-shirts. So that’s going to be coming up in the next month or so. So just so you know,

Jeff: when that does happen, send me an email with the link to that.

We’ll post it on our on we’ll tweet it out. We’ll we’ll do Facebook, we’ll put it on our website, everything. We’ll make sure we push

Garret Wang: it.

Jeff: That’d be great. Thank you. Now. If I read correctly you’re also in a new series called Phoenix, is that correct? Yes.

Garret Wang: Correct. Now, what is Phoenix? Phoenix is an episodic.

I think they’re, they’re shooting for Amazon. They’re looking for to be on Amazon prime, I think. And it’s a, it’s sort of a kind of a thriller in a way, I guess I’m, I’m play the role of an FBI agent. In this one. So set in modern times. So it’s not Saifai, but it’s, you know, intrigue, deception, you know, who’s good.

Who’s bad. I don’t know, kind of a thing, you know? So I’m good though. I’m not sure. [00:50:00] Spoiler alert.

Jeff: W w when, when would that show be available for us to, I

Garret Wang: see, I actually do not know. I mean, I’m, I’m waiting for them to tell me what what’s going on. So when I find out I’ll send you an email as well, so you can make that announcement.

Jeff: So, and last I saw there’s six episodes, film. How many are there going to be?

Garret Wang: Again, not privy to what production is planned for that. I’m just, I’m just a hired hand on the actor. That’s it? So I’ve worked on, I’ve worked on, I think, three of the episodes, so far something like that, so yeah. So we’ll see.

We’ll see what happens. Yeah. Are you already,

Jeff: are you enjoying this the experience

Garret Wang: more? Yeah, you know, I mean, I took a very long break from Hollywood. So when Voyager ended in 2001 from 2001 and 2005, so we’re talking a four year span. I had only five auditions per year in that four year, four year span.

It was horrible. It was like, it was like the Sahara desert. It was just nothing [00:51:00] completely dried up in terms of acting roles. And there was nothing. So I took a break, you know, five, I left Hollywood. I traveled the world. So about 30 plus countries in a five-year span. So 2005 to 2010, all I did was travel.

Very eye-opening. I mean, I got to do things that I I’ve wanted to do, but I couldn’t do, because when I was working on Voyager, I was so busy. I had no time to do anything. Like literally we had seven days off each year when I was working Voyager other than the other than the weekends, just. Seven years, seven days or one week vacation where they didn’t need us.

So that’s pretty bad. So I spent you know, five years just goofing off traveling, you know, everywhere you can think of central America Russia, Ukraine parts of Asia, you know, you name it. I was there. And then I came back in 2010 with a full intent on jumping back into Hollywood and.

Starting the acting thing all over again. And then I veered left and I started playing golf which I played golf every day for about three [00:52:00] years. So I still, he didn’t get back. I didn’t go back. And not until, so very recently, as in, I think it was 2018. I was at a, at a convention in Vancouver Island and I bumped into a manager who, who Yeah.

He said, I, I. He didn’t say anything to me that the first two days, and then like the third day at lunch, he goes, I didn’t think he knew who I was. He was like, so yeah. You know, I’ve just been wondering what happened to you? What do you mean? He’s like, yeah, you just dropped off the radar. I was, you know, I I’ve actually a fan of your show.

I watched Voyager when it was out. And then I, I followed your. Your career, you did one thing after Voyager, you did into the West on TNT 2005, and then you disappeared. And I said, yes, sir. I did disappear. And he’s like for 13 years. And I go, yeah, [00:53:00] for 13

Jeff: years I disappeared. I really did. So I

Garret Wang: literally explained everything to him and he was like, well If you’re interested in coming back and to Hollywood, I’d be interested in, in representing you.

So now he’s my manager. So Chris Rowe is his name and he’s been, he’s been my manager since 2018 end of 2018, basically. So yeah, so that’s, I just, I just really, I needed to break. I mean, I was working so hard on Voyager that I just felt like my soul was being, you know, not. Crushed, but definitely stepped on, you know, and when, I mean stepped on, like me making suggestions and them being shot down, me trying to get a line change and that being shot down and just me asking why I’m still an incident that being shot down, like everything.

It was like, really, I am doing everything for this show and you guys are not, you know, meeting me halfway in the slightest. And so it was. [00:54:00] Difficult. It was just so difficult. I felt like I needed to recharge my, my soul, my, my, my mental, my mental state, my physical state, everything needed. I needed to recharge.

And I, once I took the recharge. Boy, it’s so much easier being lazy than working really is to be able to just say, I’m flying to Hong Kong. You know, that’s a lot easier than going. I’m going to prepare for this audition or prepare for whatever. But what I did return to was a Hollywood. That’s completely different.

Now, the auditions where you drive to go to see a casting director and audition on tape, where they record you there that’s gone. You don’t do any of that anymore. That’s completely out of the, out of the Out of the equation nowadays, it’s all, self-tape you use your cell phone to record yourself and you take that file and upload it and S an email, it, attach it to the email and send it into your manager and they send it into the casting director and that’s it done, you know?

And so, There’s good [00:55:00] and bad things about that. The good thing is if you screw up, you get to redo it again. You can keep, you can do 50,000 takes until you find the right one. But the bad thing is you don’t have anyone to really read off of. I mean, you, you typically have to get a spouse or a significant other, or find a place that it specializes in, in, in self-tapes that can you pay them to, to read with you?

So it’s really kind of changed things because. Part of what worked for me in the past in terms of booking roles was these casting people were meeting me in face to face. They could feel my energy. They could sense who I was. You know what I’m saying? And when you record yourself on your iPhone or your Android device, It’s it’s really, you know, unless you have, unless you use some superior lighting setup with amazing sound and, and really every it’s just tough to really convey to a casting [00:56:00] person or production or producer or director.

What you’re all about, you know what I’m saying? And I just think it’s, it’s, it’s really sad that it’s come to that, but that’s just the way, the way the business has changed, you know, since I took my prolonged hiatus that’s how it has changed. It’s become a lot more impersonal and impersonal is not.

Doesn’t play towards my strengths.

Jeff: I would have figured it probably with Kobe was gonna headed that direction. I assume

Garret Wang: it hadn’t hit into that direction yet. COVID definitely put it in that direction right

Jeff: now. The interesting thing was is that with star Trek anyway, with CBS all access, you know, you have discovery, then you have a card has been any discussion of having either the board, your crew back into.

The CBS, all access world with the card or whatever, or, or you pacifically coming back on

Garret Wang: they’ve made. Okay, well, we’ve seen seven of nine make her appearance and Picard. They’ve made the announcement that Janeway is coming back in her own show which I think is [00:57:00] going to be on Nickelodeon. So I, yeah, so yeah, I, I’m not sure if it’s animated or but you know, Jane ways is, is going to be back And you know, fans are always saying, Oh, we want to see you on one of the new things, you know, blah, blah, blah.

You know, it’d be great to see you do this. But Nothing yet. I, I can say that my manager did feel to call from CPS paramount and they were asking about my availability at the beginning of 2021. And they were asking this at the end of last year. So so the F so I’m feeling as if. Some thing is coming down the wire for me, that has to be star Trek related.

I don’t know if it’s discovery, if it’s Picard, if it’s lower decks, I have no clue, but it is, or maybe the Nickelodeon show who knows. But there is some interest, there is some talk, they would not divulge what they were talking about. Not all they said to the manager was we w we need to know his availability, you know, [00:58:00] and that’s it.

So,

Jeff: well, I definitely, I mean, it’d be great to see Kim hurricane come back.

Garret Wang: And captain sea, captain Kim, that would

Jeff: be awesome. That would be awesome. But then he has one incident it’s been on the ship for like 10 years and he’s just digging that one guy for no reason. Yeah. And he’s always like, when am I ever gonna get

Garret Wang: promoted?

And he’s like, and I’d say, just get in line, buddy.

Jeff: That’d be fantastic. I, I definitely would tune in for that

Garret Wang: every week. Me too.

Jeff: Thank you so much, Mr. Wan, for speaking with me, it was a fantastic pleasure and a great

Garret Wang: Jeff, thank you so much. I enjoyed it. I usually, you know, a lot of times when I’m interviewed. It’s it’s so quick. I don’t really get to say anything, but we really took the time and got through a lot of stuff.

We, we really tackled a lot of different subjects and I enjoyed it. Thank you.

Jeff: Yeah, you’re very welcome. And like I said, if, when Phoenix is ready [00:59:00] to premiere, please come back to the show and we will talk Phoenix.

Garret Wang: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Have

Jeff: a fantastic fantastic night. All

Garret Wang: right, buddy.

I’ll see you later. Yep. Thank you. Bye