Creator and star of the original web series and movie on Amazon Prime "Girl/Girl Scene" Tucky Williams stops by to chat with Casey about her multifaceted career, the controversy around her movie, and so much more!
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Tucky WIlliams - Casey - SKYPE.output
[00:00:00] Casey: all right, everybody welcome again to another episode of spoiler country.
My name is Casey Allen, and today on the show we have writer, director, actor, Tuckey, Williams Tucky. How are you doing today?
Tucky Williams: Great. How are you?
Casey: I'm well, I'm well, so, okay. you came to acting and directing and all of this from, from a weird place because your, your education was, in meteorology and journalism.
So how the hell did you get into the directing thing? That's crazy. I want to know about this.
Tucky Williams: Oh, well, I was being a meteorologist and then there was an audition for a movie. And this was a while back and movies were big deal. And so I auditioned for it and I got the, there were two lead parts, a male lead and a female lead.
And I got the female lead and I, Oh, it was a horrible experience, but I loved it. And I had to keep doing it. And then, um. And then I just kept going. And then the second movie I made was a little, [00:01:00] little something called dead moon rising. And after that I was, once I read the, well, yeah, once I read the screenplay for that movie, I was like, okay, this movie is going to go places.
And it did. And after dead moon rising, there was no turning back.
Casey: Awesome. Awesome. So you, you grew up, I'm assuming you grew up in Kentucky?
Tucky Williams: I did. I grew up in Kentucky.
Casey: Not a whole, it doesn't seem like a big place for film. where did your interest in that come? Was it, was it just like, Oh, I'll just for shits and giggles, do this audition or what?
Was there something deeper there? Have you always
Tucky Williams: been. I think, I think my dream was always to be an actress. And then as I, as I became a teenager, my dream was to be a writer. And so, Oh, I just, I wanted to put them both together somehow, but I didn't think that could ever really happen for me. So I got into meteorology and actually when I was doing meteorology, it was also co-hosting the morning show.
So it was kind [00:02:00] of like, I was kind of like acting. It was kind of like performing for the cameras and stuff and making sure, you know, when you do the weather, you have to animate. And render your show and you have to perform for the show and make people have fun and have a good time hearing about the weather.
And so that was as close as I could get to acting it, I thought in my life. And then all of this came up. All of a sudden
Casey: that, that's, that's crazy. So, you got into acting, you got the bug. Um. I really want to hear embarrassing green-screen stories, but we will press on.
Tucky Williams: I mean, there was one time I forgot to put my mouse in the right place and it didn't animate. So for 30 seconds, I just talked in front of a screen. But I mean that, that's it. That's not very exciting.
Casey: If you, if you had a crazy green screen story that that should go in your reel.
Tucky Williams: I wish I did. I know there was one [00:03:00] time I almost froze up and it was funny.
It was like, it wasn't for about three seconds. I froze up. My brain just stopped and I was like, this is good. This is the turning point of your life. So and start talking or not, it's going to affect how your life goes from now on. I think talking again, but I was so scared for a minute, but I wasn't going to stop.
Casey: put you on the spot, let you, you have to keep things moving. And do you think that that kind of helps you carry over that in, into acting and into your, your performance,
Tucky Williams: but it certainly didn't hurt. it just, in terms of the comfort level in terms of, you just have to be really used to talking.
see, I'm not, I'm really not someone who talks much in real life. like I, I'm actually someone that I don't, I don't call my friends, you know, I don't, I don't, I just don't, I'm just not a big talker. And so. Just have to go from not speaking much to having to speak nonstop for three and a half minutes.
That was a challenge. So I think you could just in terms of something pushing you in that [00:04:00] direction, that was really good for me. And, , I think maybe it helped me. because I didn't, don't have any formal acting training, so I think it made me, it helped me just kind of had things, if I had to say something and just helped it roll off the tongue more naturally.
Casey: That is
Tucky Williams: really thought about it, but that's probably, yeah, I can't,
Casey: that's crazy to me that you haven't had any formal acting training because I see you're a strong actor. You know what you're doing. You know how to tell the story and you know how to convey. Like inner, inner emotion and dialogue. And, it, it's crazy.
I've, watched what I could have of your stuff online. and, like as I saw girl girl scene, I've, I've seen dead moon rising, And, I saw a few of the clips of you on YouTube as well. So, yeah, you, you know what you're doing. So, so you, you do the acting thing, and then what in the hell compelled you to, to [00:05:00] actually get into directing and writing.
Tucky Williams: Well, I, I just wanted to write an act in, uh, the girl girl scene, a series actually, like we didn't know what to call it back then, so I feel kind of bad. It got labeled a web series, but it were 40 minute episodes, I think the correct term for it is a streaming series, but there weren't any streaming services back then.
I mean, there were, but, you know, people didn't have it in their houses. And so, I mean, so I did the show girl girl scene. I just wanted to act in it and write it and you know, so. I don't know. I just felt this need to make something. And I knew that there was an opening in the market that there was nothing like that out there.
And so, you know, it's like, Hey, find your audience and I'm going to fill it. And I knew that there wasn't any content out that like out there like that. And so I was just like, Hey, I'm going to create it. And I, I think I knew my stuff. I knew my subject pretty well. It was based on my life and my experiences.
I mean, anything you see in any of those movies is something that happened, which is funny cause you know, sometimes I'll go through and read some of the reviews and some of them, some [00:06:00] of the critics of it, they'll say, Oh, this is completely unrealistic. Well this would never happen. I'm like, Oh girl, let me,
Casey: so you, you and you, you did use a lot of your own experiences from the show.
Uh, can, can you. Give us a brief, give the audience a brief kind of a synopsis of the show. You don't have to get like into the deep, deep details. Just tell us what, what girl girl scene is. Well, it's
Tucky Williams: a comedy drama about a group of lesbian friends. And we just get into all kinds of trouble. It's an ensemble, so it rotates between four or five characters, and their lives are sort of interconnected and intertwined, and it's just a big romp.
It's kind of, I mean, this is kind of an older show, but it's kind of like sex in the city. it's just these girls going around having fun and then they meet up and, and, and talk about, talk about everything that's going on. But they all have these very interesting, very, traumatic lives. It's just a fun show to make [00:07:00] and a fun show to watch.
Casey: So you said it was lesbian friends, and now I just want to see it as the mid nineties sitcom television show friends, but cast with purely with lesbians.
Tucky Williams: We don't have a gym. We don't have the nineties
Casey: in the left drag. You gotta have the laugh track
Tucky Williams: and then that'd be great. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I guess it could be like that, but with a lot more of a lot more drama.
Casey: I tried, I've tried watching an episode of that not long ago. It was on, it was awful. Oh my God. It was awful.
Tucky Williams: Oh, really?
Casey: D does not hold up. And like a lot of the jokes now just like totally would not go over today.
Just like what?
Tucky Williams: Oh,
Casey: really? We can't talk about that anymore, grandpa. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't too terrible, but there were a few things that were, kind of like, that's not cool.
so girl, girl, scene, lesbian [00:08:00] friends, and a lot of it is just kind of. Learning how to be comfortable with yourself. I picked that.
That's what I picked up from it. Like it seemed like your character especially was kind of learning who she is.
Tucky Williams: She is, but I wanted to start from a place of people. I felt like a lot of TV shows and even still were. It was like, it's getting better, but it was always like the gay character was, who am I?
Am I really gay? Am I really gay? And I'm like, okay, we're done with that. All these girls already know they're gay. We're skipping to the fun stuff. so I think it's, well, I mean, I think it's a lifelong process of finding out who you are. the character I play, Evan, she, I don't know that she's ever learned anything in her entire life.
She's definitely not grown or developed. She's pretty much stuck in a 17 year old boy. And I mean, even still playing her 10 years later, she's still a 17 year old boy. I mean, if anything, she's gotten worse. So, I mean, it may seem like she's learning things, but I guarantee [00:09:00] you in 10 years she's learned absolutely nothing.
Casey: Well, I was talking to a, a writer not long ago. He's a, he's a gay dude. and, that, that sounds so dumb, dude. Now he's like, Hey, man. And he was telling me like. For, for him in particular, like, you know, growing up, having to not be who you really are as, as a kid. When he became an adult, it was like he had, he was basically reliving his teens and his twenties he was kind of having to, to go through that stuff again because he had never actually experienced anything.
And, I thought that was an interesting perspective. I don't know if it carries over for, for other people as well, but I felt that was, I felt that was definitely, an interesting outlook for somebody who, you know, what sucks for, for kids who are, who are going through that. And, [00:10:00] I think stuff like what you're doing and, and the books that, that, that man writes are, are great.
For people to kind of go like, Oh yeah, that life can be fun.
Tucky Williams: That's been the most rewarding part about doing it is knowing exactly that. And thank you for saying that. Life can be fun because so many, I mean, they had that, you know, life gets better, it gets better thing. But I always want to say, no, life gets fun and I'm going to show you how.
So I think, I think there was either, there's been this movement to like, Oh, B, which is very important. Be comfortable in self and love yourself for who you are. And that's good. And I want it. I wouldn't be the person who's also like, and guess what? This is going to be a really great time. Once you, once you get out of your parents' house and once you get to college, things are going to get
Casey: a lot,
Tucky Williams: lot better.
yeah. Yeah. So, I, I really want to go that direction of like, this is what your life is going to be like. And it's been so nice. to hear from just countless, countless people, who, who've been helped by that. You know, lots of [00:11:00] teenagers and even lots of grownups, people from other countries, you know, unfortunately, who can't ever come out.
They're able to sort of live vicariously through this show. They, you know, they'll never, ever be out. And so they're able to watch it and be like, okay. And then people in, sort of isolated parts of the country . And are able to watch it and they'll go, Oh, okay, this is, this is what's like, maybe, maybe I should get out of here, or when I'm old enough, I'll get out of here and move to a bigger city and I'll start having a good time.
Casey: Yeah. Yeah. And, I'm assuming you've, you've had a lot of really good interaction with the fans and stuff like that.
Tucky Williams: Yeah.
Casey: Have you received any flak from it? Because the internet is a beautiful Wonderland, but it can also be a terrible place full of assholes.
Tucky Williams: Oh yeah. Well, I mean the internet. I mean, I know if you watched Jay and silent Bob strike back, but the premise is that the internet exists.
Oh yeah. People can talk shit about movies.
Casey: I'm a bearded white dude in his mid, his late thirties. I have seen James,
[00:12:00] Tucky Williams: you know what I'm talking about? They make their fortune only so they can go around and beat up all the little boys who talked shit about them on the internet. And let me tell you, I can relate to that so much.
Casey: Being a, being a yoga instructor, you're flexible. You can kick some ass like many different ways.
Tucky Williams: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's happened always in self defense, but apparently I can actually do that. But yeah. So yeah, I have a tremendous desire. I think it goes back to the thing I said earlier is people just like to be critical about stuff for no reason.
if we're talking about, well, I mean, there was, aside from the whole thing that happened recently, I think the most negativity I got was from within the gay community. was people going, this isn't realistic. This wouldn't really happen. Or they were seeing stuff like this. I love this one. They would say, this is a bad [00:13:00] depiction of, of lesbians and this, this isn't good.
We shouldn't be depicted this way. And I'm like, that was exactly the point is I wanted to go, this is the worst of humanity cause I'm tired of seeing gay people portrayed as saints, as Disney characters who were completely asexual and never anything wrong.
Casey: Well, they're either depicted the saints or the villain.
The stereotypical light. Very gay sounding villain.
Tucky Williams: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, well, they're all villains on this show there. They're just not there. They're there. I mean, I wanted to, I wanted to make a show that would make straight people go, Oh dear God, is this what it's, and, and I, that's, I think I succeeded in doing that.
Casey: Did you have a fun time playing Evan?
Tucky Williams: Oh, of course. I mean, I [00:14:00] mean, I'm. Yeah, that's, she's just become a part of me. Like, it's just been such a part of my life for so long playing Evan, I kind of don't know what my life would be like without her. it's just funny because we're so radically different and, I'm just, I'm just glad that I'm able to sort of play someone who's just the total opposite of
So you've used, some of your own experiences in this role. do you, have you used her to kind of work out things that you went through as, as a, as a young person?
Tucky Williams: Oh, well, on the show, I think, I think the, well now it's called girl girl scene flashback. If you watch it on Amazon, but the character Jesse.
17 year old girl and everything she goes through is exactly what I went through. And I was able to exercise those demons. And so the lady who plays her mother is Cindy Allen. And, Cindy Allen basically played my mother. So it was [00:15:00] basically living out my, my. The whole ordeal with my mother of her accepting me being lesbian.
And it was funny because my mom was always around and Cindy Allen was always around, and so my mom knew that this actress was playing her and the actress knew that she was playing my mom. And the funny thing is, is I had questions that I could never figure out about everything I went through. And so I started talking to Cindy like, why did my, why did this?
Why did my mother do this and why did my mother do this? And Cindy had the answers.
Casey: Oh wow. Wow. She was, she was like your, your second mom kind of.
Tucky Williams: Yeah. There was someone channeling my mother, wait, we have to talk about, and father to my dad doesn't get discussed enough interviews. I had a character play my dad, David Haney.
I mean, I ha he did it. And they were both tremendous as playing my parents because, my dad was absolutely thrilled that I wasn't going to be dating boys. Zero problem with it. He just thought it was the [00:16:00] greatest. I mean, he was just like, Oh, I'm set now. Everything's good. I mean, I had girls over all the time.
We'd run around screaming and he, he was just like, if my mom left town and he'd be in town, I mean we'd just run around screaming. He just was great. Had no problem with anything cause he's like, you know what? You know, I don't really think nothing bad is gonna happen here so that I had an actor. So it was really funny because the mother was kind of having a hard time.
Well, you know, a little bit of difficult time dealing with it. Let's just put it that way. And then it's just really funny cause the dad is so happy. So that was, I got to play that. So people got to see, that play out on screen, which I thought was another great going against. The trope thing is to have a parent who absolutely embraces their child being gay, not accepts it, embraces it, and loves it and is thrilled.
Casey: Yeah, that, that definitely kind of goes against the majority of other, you [00:17:00] know, parents of gay children in film. So, yeah, that's, that's definitely an interesting taken. And I'm happy that your, your parents were, we're accepting and all of that. I have two small girls, you know, right now I have a five and a nine year old.
And actually when, when right before I called, I was having to watch them do their dance routine to the MICU song. So my five-year-old is a dance fanatic.
so yeah. Yeah. It gets, it gets real interesting. Oh,
Tucky Williams: it must be fun. It must be.
Casey: Actually, my five-year-old never misses an opportunity to tell me that she is a mama's girl, mama's baby. I'm like, okay, I'll take what I can get. So, so you, you were named [00:18:00] as one of the advocates, 40 under 40 how, how was that? That must've been fairly gratifying.
Tucky Williams: Oh, tremendously. I w I, it was just so great too, and that happened so soon after I started.
It was just like, just to know that you're making that much of an impact. That quickly, it was like, okay, okay, this is great. I know that I'm doing the right thing and I'm moving in the right direction.
Casey: So like being, being a creator, just anybody in Hollywood period. and not being in Hollywood cause you're, you're in Kentucky.
Is that, do you find that to be a disadvantage or do you, do you like not being part of that circle so you can just kind of be creative on your own and then take your ideas where they, where they go.
Tucky Williams: It's definitely the latter. I really love, I really love being the one in control of everything. And I, I mean, so many actors and actresses, even successful ones, even very successful when say that their job is auditioning and trying to [00:19:00] get a part, and that's the real job.
Networking to get apart. I don't want that to be my job. I want my job to be, well, I want my job to be acting. Actually, my job is directing now, but you know, I'm getting to work and I'm not having to ask people for work. I'm doing it myself. So I, yeah, I like it. It's like a better here and you know, it's, it's so much better.
Casey: So where do you get your ideas
Tucky Williams: from? My life. It's just all my life.
Casey: Everything. So what, what do you do to kind of like, while you're, while you're writing, do you have a process for how you come about. Oh, your scripts. do you isolate yourself? do you pull yourself into an activity that then gives you the inspiration, or is it just all come natural?
Tucky Williams: Well, I'm one of those writers who stays up all night and, I mean, people like to go, Oh, you stay up all night, but no, that's really, that's a brain thing. I don't
Tucky Williams: you. That's when your brain [00:20:00] comes alive. It just sort of turns on at that time. So I have to stay up until the sun starts to rise. and that's, that's when I write that's key to it.
And not every writer is like that. Some writers have the polar opposite, but a lot of people are like that. And a lot of people do that, and that's when it, that's just, that's just what happens is it all starts to come out at that time. I could try writing during the day and nothing would happen, but as soon as it gets to be around two or 3:00 AM, whew, you can't stop it.
Casey: Yeah. Unless, unless you're in that sweet spot, it's like pulling teeth.
Tucky Williams: You're right. Yeah. Yeah. So,
Casey: so are do you have like a soundtrack or anything you, you use while you write? Do you listen to music or do you just, uh, do you have to have it completely silent?
Tucky Williams: Not while I write, but if I, if I'm currently writing something, I definitely have a soundtrack that goes along with it.
So maybe like when I'm brushing my teeth and getting ready for bed, I'll have a Spotify playlist that, that goes with what I'm writing at the moment. I definitely do. That's definitely, definitely a huge part of it.
Casey: I write comics and [00:21:00] I've, I've been putting together, Spotify playlist for my, my artist.
And, I had a very, very light, kind of frenetic, soundtrack. And, my, my artists got back to me. He was like, dude, that kind of set me on edge. I was like, I'm sorry. He's like, no, it was perfect.
Tucky Williams: Yeah,
Casey: it's, it's, I discovered a, a genre called trap metal. So if you're a fan of nineties hip hop and, sludge metal, then let me tell you a Tucky it's going to blow your hair back.
Tucky Williams: Okay. I'm ready.
Casey: So you've done like not only have you done the girl girl scene, but you, you did, , the Juliet and Romeo. And so how was your experience with that? Because I mean, you, you just kind of turned it on his head. You, you've added a lesbian twist to the Shakespearian play. And [00:22:00] how was that received and how fun was that?
That must've been pretty amazing.
Tucky Williams: I'm glad people liked it. I'm glad people got what they did out of it. I just kind of, I said I was kind of looking for people to work with and see who would be good to work with. And so this was just kind of a little side thing I did really quickly. And, we did it in two nights and it.
Yeah, yeah. So you're, you're looking at it and, it, it just, it was great to experiment with that. And, I wasn't really that much of a Shakespeare fan ever. And then I realized that this could be a thing that people would really like. So since then I've become quite the Shakespeare fan. But yeah, it was, it was fun to play with that.
It was fun, fun to play Romeo, because I know, I knew I could pull that off. The whole, Leonardo DiCaprio. I knew I had that down the swagger. I knew I had that down. I mean, I definitely, definitely wanted to play Juliet, but I was like, no, [00:23:00] no. I, I've gotta be the Romeo here. We,
Casey: we watch the, I think it was Baz Luhrmann that directed the, we, we showed my, my nine year old that the other day because she was, she was asking about it and,
Tucky Williams: Oh no.
Casey: Not the whole thing, not the whole thing. I just showed her the, the first scene and I showed it to her there. You know, the, I bite my thumb at you seeing about my thumb, sir, but not at you. It takes place very on early in the movie, and is one of the first, the first. Scenes we have where the, Capulets and the,
the other guys, we realized they don't get along very well. but I showed her different iterations of the same scene. So there was a 1950s version that also showed her, and then another one from the stage that I showed her. And, she got to see how different people interpreted the same scene. And then we got to the basil Luhrmann and she said, Oh my God, [00:24:00] dad, this is awful.
Tucky Williams: Or she didn't like it.
Casey: No, she thought it was so cheesy.
Tucky Williams: Oh my gosh. That's funny.
Casey: So, uh, she, she was not down. I think it was because those characters were played for laughs. And I think that they really, exactly. It was like cartoon level. yeah. That, I mean, he was essentially bugs bunny or Daffy duck.
Tucky Williams: Yeah.
Casey: , it was, it was interesting that she did not pick up on it. I thought she'd be all in for it because it was bright and colorful, and you know, the, the dudes look cool and the cars look cool, but no, sounds lame.
Tucky Williams: Oh, well, give her a few years and she'll discover the wonder that is young Leonardo DiCaprio.
Casey: The most hurtful thing she can say to me is, you know, and in olden times in the nineties.
Tucky Williams: Yeah.
Casey: Adopt [00:25:00] you out.
Tucky Williams: Now. You know that nineties rock is classic rock.
Casey: I know that that kills me
Tucky Williams: station now it is the 80 station of plays, the oldest, the oldest station plays eighties and nineties music, which is like, it's like what.
Casey: Yeah. And if I could, if I could go in without hearing another red hot chili pepper song the rest of my life, I'll, I'll,
Tucky Williams: Oh, bless you for saying that. No.
Casey: So what, what, what do you have coming up? Are you, do you have anything on the plate that you're working on currently?
Tucky Williams: Oh, yeah, sure. I have a bunch of stuff.
Fortunately, I had a bunch of stuff in the can already, so that's going to start coming out really slowly. And, um. Just a little bit at a time, and the next thing that comes out is I had another, a streaming series called dire kiss, and it did really,
Casey: I was wanting to get to that.
Tucky Williams: Yeah, it did. I couldn't believe it went over as well as it did.
I thought it was just so, it was just so [00:26:00] cheap, really well on Amazon. I mean, it was like, it was like. I was like, what? And uh, so I decided to make a movie out of it, so I made a movie out of it. And that's going to come out. And, um, yeah. And then there's some other stuff in the works. So,
Casey: and it came at like such a good time because people are hungry for that stuff.
I mean, not only did Lord of the rings go over like crazy good, but also when the series debuted, it was right when like game of Thrones was still good.
Tucky Williams: Maybe that was a secret. And
Casey: if you're representing. People that aren't often represented in those John Aras and people are going to take notice and they're, and they're going to appreciate the hell out of it.
Yeah, absolutely. I think,
Tucky Williams: I think the group that's liked it most has been like, men over 35 and up. And it's, I think it's just because they, it's, you see so much of that [00:27:00] genre and it's just men. Right? And so I think like a lot of men, like. Just looking at women, you know, it's not a, it's not a dirty thing.
They just like looking at pretty girls and stuff. So it's like they get to enjoy that genre and it ain't a bunch of dudes. It's, it's pretty big. And so that was, that was what surprised me is, you know, I'd get letters from these guys who were like, I don't know why I like this so much.
Casey: I was like, well, dumb ass is, you know, very pretty ladies, and they're doing cool stuff.
Tucky Williams: Oh.
Tucky Williams: but I mean, it was, it was, it's cute. It's just cute. These guys liked it. I was really happy about that.
Casey: That's awesome. That's awesome. What's the, what, what's been the most surprising thing that's happened since you started making films? Like surprising and in terms of like audience reaction?
Tucky Williams: Just that anybody watched it. You're not expecting that. I mean, when I made girl girl scene my, [00:28:00] and I really mean this, I thought 5,000 people would watch it on YouTube, and that was all I wanted. And so the fact that anything has gone as far as it has, I mean, it just continues to blow my mind. I, I don't know what to say.
I don't know. I was just, I came up with the right idea at the right time and poof, or you have it.
Casey: So you, you tend to like try different genres out. are, is there a particular genre in which you're wanting to get to?
Tucky Williams: I think science fiction would be fun, but that probably costs more money than I have.
But I like science fiction and I like, I like fantasy of course. So those are my two. You know, when I was a little girl in a, well, you know, when there were blockbusters and stuff or those little mom and pop video stories, I would always go to the scifi fantasy section. I would just run straight to that section because that's where my stuff was.
So that's what I liked doing the most.
Casey: Oh yeah. And, and as for SIFA, you don't have to have [00:29:00] like crazy explosions and robots or anything like that. I mean, you, you can still get those concepts through on, on a, on a very base level and people will, will still appreciate it as long as the story's good.
Nobody, nobody cares about rope the robots or whatever. and that's, that's what I love about the genres. You, you can go about it very analytically and, and, intelligently and, and make something beautiful with it.
Tucky Williams: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's so many science fiction movies, I think. I mean, I've learned so much about humanity from science fiction movies.
I think more so than drama movies.
Casey: Oh yeah. Yeah. It's like the, the morality plays if the ones that are, yeah. Especially like the old star track and stuff like that. Who is your, influences as like a director
Tucky Williams: changes? What day is it? But, I [00:30:00] know, James Cameron was a big way, and Quentin Tarantino, more recently as JJ Abrams.
then, I mean, for my latest stuff, it's been David Fincher all the way.
Oh, who did, Oh, Oh, who did boogie nights.
Tucky Williams: yeah. Uh, Oh, so many. And I mean, you know, Scorsese, of course. I mean, any God, Oh gosh, you got me going. But yeah, those are the main ones. I think I left one of them out, but, right now it's David Fincher.
I think I have this, there was an essay video essay on YouTube, the title of it, this is the whole title of it. David Fincher and everybody else is wrong.
Then I was like, yes. So I'm able to, I just, he's, he's everything. I wish I could, I could do what he does and do the 30 takes, he's, he's just a genius. He understands cameras and lighting. Like nothing else. And then he understands the human side of it too. So, you know, if, if you watch [00:31:00] his, he watched his movies and actually slow down and pay attention, the lighting always lines up the right way, which is why he does so many takes.
And then if you'll notice, um, if characters are ever moving through a scene, they move, like they're moving through a maze. And it looks like they're moving in a straight line, but they're actually moving through amaze, an imaginary maze. It's not there so that the lighting lines up the right way and that they're standing in a certain place when a certain line comes out of their mouths and it's, he's just something else, man.
You know, the social network had more special effects than the latest Godzilla film.
Casey: That's wild. I had no idea.
Tucky Williams: Yeah, I know. I didn't. I didn't either. He puts, he's like, he's just, he has movies. They seem like social networks has just so many special effects. His movies, he'll, he'll go to great lengths just to regular movie to just make it that much better by adding special effects in it.
Like in a gone girl. One of my things, like I think gone girl is actually gone, girl gone girl. I think it's the female version of fight club. So fight club was like a favorite movie. Now it's gone girl. But and in gone [00:32:00] girl. Hiya. Amazing. Amy had to have a long hair for half the movie, and he went in and digitally removed the hairline from the wig and every single shot.
Casey: Oh, wow. Wow. That's putting people, lore, good guy.
Tucky Williams: Yeah. But just that little thing, just that little bit, you know, cause you see it in movies all the time. You see that little tiny hairline, whatever. But he went in and got rid of it.
Casey: That's the movie. That movie was so good. And the lady that wrote the book that that's based on everything I've read by her has been fantastic.
And I cannot think of her name right now. She has so. Yeah. Fantastic.
Tucky Williams: Yeah, she is. She is. And, yeah, I've, I've read all her stuff too, and it, you know, I think people are always coming up to her and saying, are you okay? And she's like, yes, I'm fine. I'm just writing this stuff. But I love how, disturbed her characters are.
[00:33:00] Casey: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's so many layers, and it's. They're, they're all dealing with some, some type of trauma. And, it really, it can be hard to watch sometimes. yeah. When, when you've write that stuff into your own characters, the trauma, the, like the not the fun scenes. Is that, is that hard on you?
And it's hard to act.
Tucky Williams: You're cringing and you're going through it yourself. You know, you're like tightening up your legs when you're writing it and you know you're going, Oh. And then you realize the what the next line is supposed to be, what someone would say. And you go, Oh God, no, no, no, no, no. Cause he want life to be easy for your characters.
But then you realize what would really happen. And he'd go, Oh no, I have to write this. Cause that's, you have to, you have to tell the truth. Right. Ah. So, , yeah.
Casey: And that, that's, that's a perfect way of saying that you [00:34:00] have to tell the truth.
Tucky Williams: Yeah.
Casey: And also note, if everything's hunky Dory, then it's kind of a boring story, but it still feels like you're making your toys sometimes.
What, what's the hardest thing you've ever had to do as a writer for these characters?
Tucky Williams: Oh gosh. Oh, I don't know. Put me on the spot like this.
Casey: Have you ever kind of like, like kind of crap. I had a little bit or thought like, Oh, I wish there's some other way around this.
Tucky Williams: and now it's weird. Like if stands really dark and I read through it again, I'll be laughing.
Girl, girl, scene flashback where, I mean the mother and the daughter have the biggest blowout of all time. And you know, I wrote that like in one night I was thoroughly exhausting, but then I read through it like five times and I was laughing. I was so excited to have written that.
Casey: Oh wow. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm sure it can be kind of cathartic. [00:35:00] Oh
Tucky Williams: yeah. And then I'm like, Oh, I can't wait to see this. And then I got to see it happen. It was just like, Oh, this is every, the actors delivered
Casey: like nothing.
Tucky Williams: Yeah. They delivered, they brought it, and they were asking me questions, which is so great. You want, you want all your actors to always do that, you know?
And, and they, Oh, they brought it. So, and they, at this point. At this point, they really knew their characters, so it was amazing to see it happen. So
Casey: that that must be fairly gratifying to come to fruition.
Tucky Williams: I can go back and watch it anytime I need to love it.
Casey: So w when you're directing a film, I mean, especially a production that is like, not, not a, not a huge.
Like finance production. This is something that you are putting like blood, sweat, and tears into, and so that means that you're having to make sure that everything is is perfect. You're having to go the [00:36:00] extra mile to make sure that, does that ever become over? It seems like I would be curled up into a ball at the end of the day.
Just. It. Is that, is that sometimes overwhelming or do you roll with it?
Tucky Williams: Well, I mean, I have to cause I have to get it done. You know, it's, I heard this thing, you're lucky in life if you find what you love to do. But then there are very, very, very, very few people who are lucky enough to find something that they have to do.
So as stressful as it gets, I have to do this and it doesn't matter what happens. I love it. Okay. I'll just stop talking then.
At the last shoot we did, there was, there was definitely a day, they, the guys kind of had to catch me cause I didn't pass out. But I pretty much like lost all blood pressure. I just production shut down for about an hour while takiya ate a bunch of candy. Sad Sharon. It was [00:37:00] like, that's it for me.
And the girls were great. I don't know what they did, but you know, the guys were awesome. They were feeding the M&Ms like you're keeping it in candy. Tucky keep eating, he being sugar. And then when I got back, I was like, okay, let's start going again. But yeah, my body actually shut down. But, uh, it's, it's hard to do it all, but when you have a great team helping you, and I have Todd and Jerry and Mark and.
You know, they're my best friends in real life too, and they're helping me. And so it's, it's, ah, it's so great. It makes it so much, I mean, then you don't have to do it all yourself. You have, you have an incredible support system helping you. And that's a huge thing. If you're ever going to make a movie, have the best support system, you can have the best, only the best people around you and the most positive people.
And that's what I have. And I'm very fortunate.
Casey: I see that a lot where a director will find,
Tucky Williams: okay grizzly, you have to name grizzly. I left him
Casey: we'll find the right [00:38:00] people. And they're just rolled out for life after that. Oh
Tucky Williams: yeah. Oh yeah.
Casey: When you do the casting, cause I noticed that you, you've cast most of the films that you've done. That you've written and stuff. what goes into that is that, is that a pretty taxing job or you just go like, is it kind of fun?
Tucky Williams: It's very taxing job. It's like my favorite of all the jobs. Besides getting to perform, my favorite is finding the right talent for the part. Right. And, but it's, it's, it's very hard cause you know, you have to find the people and then you have to make sure they're going to be comfortable with this really difficult material.
And then, they, you know. They have to, be able to deliver. And so it was really lucky last time I had 2000 applicants for the girl girl scene movie. Oh, that's right. Yeah. And so I got all the best, I had just the very best
Casey: people for the, for that.
[00:39:00] Tucky Williams: Oh, in Lexington? Yeah. So, Oh wow. So I flew in all the talent and that's worth it.
Another thing is, is they can't not show up. Cause there is a hotel down the street like I know where you are,
I think. I think maybe someone's listening, they don't know if people are making independent films and you're using local people. Sometimes they're just at the last minute will say, Oh well I'm busy and Oh then you're screwed. But if they're in town and they're at the hotel, yeah, they have no excuse.
That's like, I'm coming to get you and I know where all your stuff is. So
Casey: that seems like actually like a lesson learned that you figured that out at some point and you're like, Oh shit, they can't. They're kind of a captive audience. So there
Tucky Williams: I've learned that it was worth money to get the best actresses.
In in my project instead of like hunting down people locally. No, just spend the money and get absolutely the best and people that the audience will love. And that's something I [00:40:00] learned is get like professionals, people who have dedicated their lives to this
Casey: and you get what you pay for otherwise.
Tucky Williams: Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. And you get people who are hungry for it. You get new talent, they want to be successful, they want to be famous. And so they're like, yeah, I'm going to work on this and I'm going to give it everything I have.
Casey: What's been the hardest lesson you've learned since you've started doing this,
Tucky Williams: is that, um, people take advantage of you and they're, you know, the people who are good at take advantage of other people are the nicest people.
Right? So, you can't, you can't trust people at all. Um, even after like years, I w I mean. I mean, I was thinking about it like one person. It was like seven or eight years before he turned on me. And I found out what was really going on this whole time. But, you know, it's, it's really the nice people who are out for something else, , who have really, really bad, bad motives.
And I think what I've learned from that is, if [00:41:00] people give you a signal that maybe, they're not on the level to pay attention to it. And, I've learned that if somebody is causing a disruption on the set, you know, it's time for them to go. And I've had to take a stand with actresses that if, if they're being disruptive, it doesn't matter how much has gone into the movie, like I'm going to stop the production.
And it's like, no, it's time for you to go home. Now. I was, it sounds pretty harsh, but I mean, this is the reality of the situation. Is you just have to be able to, I mean, it's hard. You have to be able to say goodbye to people. And, but the funny thing is, is once I sort of established that rule, like if you are, you know, if you're an actress, you show up and you're suddenly like, Oh wait, I don't want to do this.
I don't want to do this thing. That was in the script that I signed up for. You know, once I decided that, and once I decided that somebody had a really negative attitude, they had to go home, that stopped happening. So it was like I was sending [00:42:00] out this vibe that I wasn't gonna put up with anyone's bullshit, and then all of a sudden, Hey.
People stop giving me bullshit. I don't know. I don't know. Not it stays that way.
Casey: And yeah, was life's too short to deal with toxic people and
Tucky Williams: toxic people are very, very nice until they become, become toxic. So that's part of the trick, I think is. That they do is you're like, Oh, well, when they show up tomorrow, they're going to be great.
They're going to be the person I've known for five years. But then they show up. They're still, they're still nasty. So you have to, you know, even if it's someone you've known for five years, I think you have to be like, okay. I mean, if it's like a long time friend who suddenly realized might be, not, not okay.
You just go, okay, well you're just stay home tomorrow and thanks. Thanks so much for coming. But yeah, we're good. We're covered. Let them down easy. It's okay, but like I said, as soon as I decided I was going to do that, it stopped happening again. Knock on wood.
[00:43:00] Casey: Have you had anyone, like w when you first started out, did you have anyone to kind of take you under their wing and and show you the ropes? Or is this all stuff that you had to learn the hard way, but by doing
Tucky Williams: this stuff, I had to learn the hard way. All stuff. Nobody, nobody was there to help me. There are plenty of people who want to tell me what to do and I think, I think that was another mistake was that I listened to people and you shouldn't listen to people.
Like you should go to people for advice and stuff, and you should look at people who are doing things the right way. But if someone comes along and tries to tell you how to do something, don't listen to that. But people who are successful and you show up and you ask them how they did, they want to help you.
They want to tell you what to do. So go to people to learn stuff and work with people to learn stuff. That's the way to pick up on. That's the way to learn it.
Casey: That's, that's, that's awesome advice.
Tucky Williams: Cool.
Casey: So, you have to be a special kind of crazy to, to, to [00:44:00] do that, to take that on like that. That's, and I respect the hell out of people who are self-drive or self motivated that want to actually, you know, get out there, figure it out and take the lumps while they're doing it because they're learning.
And, I think, you're a rare breed duck. what do you, do you, do you prefer directing to acting? Or is, one, you know, justifying the other? Is it, you know, just,
Tucky Williams: well, I got to be in this movie clown nightmare that Mark did. He was my DP on the girl girl scene movie and he did a movie called nightmare and just showing up and acting was amazing.
I mean, all I had to do was show up and act. Oh my God, it was so easy. And I'm never, ever, ever going to let an actor complain about how difficult their job is. No, not you show up. You look good. You say lines that somebody else wrote. [00:45:00] I mean, that's, no, no, no, no. That's the best job in the world. It's the easiest job in the world.
So I definitely like acting the best. I wish I could just show up and act and everything.
Casey: Some of the stuff you did in girl girl scene that was heavy lift. Some of it was, you know, heavy lifting in regards to, um, acting in content.
Tucky Williams: Yeah.
Casey: Did you ever kind of have, when you get done with a heavy scene, do you have this like take five and kind of step back for a minute and just kind of.
Deal with it and get out of it. Or is it just like a costume that you put on and take off when you need it? Cause some people are like that. Some people can do that.
Tucky Williams: Uh, no. It's just, I think I don't have the opportunity to do that because it's always the next thing. The next thing, the next thing. So as soon as I don't have, it's like, even if I wanted to wind down from something, well, yeah, no, we've got it.
We got to, you know, set up for the next scene, [00:46:00] so I don't have the opportunity.
Casey: What about when you're finishing a project? Is there, does it hit hard once you finish or are you,
Tucky Williams: I did girl girl scene when I did the movie. the character had grown a little bit and not in a healthy way.
And so I was, I'm, I'm really positive, uh, generally upbeat, healthy attitude. And I had to sort of exist for. Eight weeks in this place of someone who, who was due wasn't, and it just felt like this yucky feeling inside of me. And I didn't, it was hard to walk around with that all the time because I do tend to stay in character even when I'm not in character, which is sort of sounds like a contradiction, but it's sort of like, when I'm, when I'm acting, I'm acting, but then if I'm doing any scenes that day, I kind of have my character on the back burner.
And then, You know what, I'm still working on the project. She's still on the back burner, even, even if I'm just going around living my life. And so I just was filled with this tremendous yuckiness, for this whole time. So [00:47:00] I think, I think when you're really good at acting, it's not, it's you, you really.
You really do get into it. but, yeah, that's, that's my answer to the question.
Casey: So, you've done girl, girl scene, what's the next big thing for you?
Tucky Williams: Well, I mean, the new dagger kiss movie is coming out and then, Next week. I don't know. it just depends on how everything goes.
Right? so, I just, I just have to wait. I think I have a lot of time to wait and see what's coming. , so I'm just going to sit back and wait for the inspiration to come.
Casey: Awesome. Awesome. So, we're, we're going to wind down soon. I really just kind of want to know, we haven't really touched on yet.
The world is crazy right now. Shit is going awry. How has that affected what you do in particular or has it at all? Have you been able to just kind of buckle down and get to work, on the writing side? Are you, did you have to put off any plans?
Tucky Williams: Oh, yeah. [00:48:00] Well, I wanted to do something this summer.
And, I mean, obviously that is not going to happen. , I think I just saw an ad for a movie. It said it was coming out August 21st I was like, are you, what kind of denial are you in that you're
Casey: even feeling.
Tucky Williams: Uh, yeah, I mean, I couldn't believe it that people actually think that's going to happen.
So basically we're looking at the industry shutting down for two to three years and nothing's going to come out for a long time. And even then, I don't know what it's going to look like to make a movie. Uh, so we just kind of have to wait and see what's going to happen. And then, you know, what kind of movies are we going to make?
Are we gonna make movies where we pretend that we live in a clean world? Are we gonna make movies where people are, um. Not touching each other, but you know the thing about movies. Yeah. I said recently is that you, you'll see two actors standing close to each other and you think, Oh, well, if it's just two people, okay, what you don't understand is that they're in a tiny room and there were five other people in that room with them, and you're all breathing the [00:49:00] same air, and, um, the crew stinks.
And it really close quarters when you're making a movie. And I've heard this article like, like in a Hollywood reporter, it was like, Hollywood's secret is that all film sets are filthy. I'm like, that's a secret
that's aren't filthy because it started out acting first. So everything's clean on nine, but, but, people, you know, are really, really close. so I, I don't know how we're going to do that, but like maybe in three years it will be okay to breathe on each other again. I know that sounds like a joke, but it's not.
I really, I really don't know.
Casey: Like I've, I've been, you know, trying to take my kids outside and stuff, but I have not let them get around anyone else. And I'm not like over protective data. Just don't want people to get sick and, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. We, we've, my, my [00:50:00] wife went into the store the other day and, I stayed in the car with the kids and she, FaceTime the girls to show them the snack aisle so they could pick up.
But, w we're figuring stuff out and, and, w like the movie industry, I think people are going to get innovative. People are gonna get creative and, because this, the drive is still there. Does the desire for new stuff is still there? So I don't think it'll be, a complete shutout. so yeah.
Yeah. Coven has wrecked our shit. How would they handle it in Kentucky? Because our governor is an idiot. You guys have a new governor in, he seems to be not a total jackass.
Tucky Williams: He cares about human life. I've been glad not to live in the deep South [00:51:00] and finally like, Oh, there's an upside to not being in the deep South.
yeah. Yeah, so I've been very lucky to live in Kentucky and
Casey: it's a beautiful state to some of the, like great outdoor options and like spelunking and stuff like that. So many,
Tucky Williams: no damn cold though. Yeah, it was so cold here. I can't handle it. That's why I need to move South. It's just so damn cold. I can't take it.
People, I think it gets warm, but it is not. It's just, it's cold. Nine months of the year and the three months of the year it's hot and I'm happy and the rest of the time I'm miserable.
Casey: I went to my sister's graduation at Berea college in Kentucky. when I was in high school and we drove up there. I did not pack pants
Tucky Williams: cause
Casey: I get there, it's springtime in Alabama and people are in shock.
It's already 85 degrees. People are in shorts, shirts. I get up there and it's snowing and snows on the ground. I had to borrow her boyfriends, uh, a pair of her [00:52:00] boyfriends dress slacks and a jacket. Cause I did not, I did not have any long sleeve anything. And I think I had just had shorts. It was awful.
Tucky Williams: Yeah, it's awful. It's like, it's like, I mean, you know, it's the same as Toronto.
Casey: I can't, I can't imagine living that far North where it says often in Toronto. Oh my God, that
Tucky Williams: was the same temperature, Toronto all the time. And so, I mean, that should give you an idea of what, it's like Toronto here. It's freezing in three months.
It's really, really, really hot.
Casey: Yeah. It's beautiful up there.
Tucky Williams: Yeah. Yeah, of course.
Casey: So, Tuckey. It's been a pleasure talking to you and I'm so glad. Let's talk about girl, girl scene and daggers, kit and, all your other amazing films. dead moon, rising head of in Superfund to film. you, you earlier you, you got me thinking when you were talking about how crowded.
A, a movie sync can be during filming and, how uncomfortable and hot it can be. [00:53:00] And I just thought about girl girl scene and just the copious amounts of making out and stuff in that film and how uncomfortable that must have been for you and, and the other actress, during those scenes because, Oh my gosh, just having people standing around and, you know, making sure that you're well lit and.
Might, that's got to be, it's gotta be pretty crowded.
Tucky Williams: Well, it's jumping off the deep end. You know, you just, you just gotta do it. So you do that, and then once you do it the first time, you're over it and then doesn't, it's fine.
Tucky Williams: just, it's just so commonplace for me now that I don't even think about it
Casey: word so.
You did a role in a video game.
Tucky Williams: Yeah, the crown nightmare video game, and it's suddenly taken off in Italy and it's huge. And Italy right now, which is insane.
Casey: Well, they, they've been locked down. They're looking for cool stuff to do, so,
[00:54:00] Tucky Williams: yeah. Well, they're doing better than we are.
Tucky Williams: Everybody's like, Oh, they're locked down, but it's like, no, they're doing better than we are.
So I mean, no,
Casey: they're just
Tucky Williams: big in Italy for some reason, and Hey, I'm all about that. Wow,
Casey: that's crazy. So I guess you might have to go to Italy.
Tucky Williams: Yeah. If I can never leave the country, I can't even go to Canada.
Casey: Well Tucky thank you again for talking with us. if you have anything coming up that you want to promote, by all means, give us a heads up.
We'd love to talk to you again. I, I enjoyed it. Oh,
Tucky Williams: we do. It's so positive. I
Casey: try not to be a jerk and I try not to be a dumb ass. I don't know how well,
Tucky Williams: but Oh yeah, yeah. No, I like keeping everything light, fun and good.
Casey: Pull it over Walters and make me cry or anything.
Tucky Williams: I know
Casey: I'm not smart enough to ask those hard questions, so it's what I can.
Sucky. Thank you again. [00:55:00] Tuckey can, can you, see us out and tell us where to find you?
Tucky Williams: Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, the best way to do is do it as a Google search. You can find girl girls seeing on Amazon, or you can go to girl, girl, scene.com. you can type that into a search engine or you can go to Tuckie williams.com.
And that's, those are the two ways to do it. Look at my name, look up the name of my show, dagger, kiss.com anything that, like I said, Google searches the easy way. You can find it all on Amazon or go directly to the URL.
Casey: Awesome. Awesome. Ducky. Thank you again.
Take it easy. Stay safe. Wash, wash your damn hands. And, next time you're in the hand, him gives a shout out and, we'll, I'll buy you a beer or something. Okay.
Tucky Williams: Oh, fantastic.
Casey: Alright. Take it easy. Tuckey
Tucky Williams: alright, talk to you later.
Casey: Alright. Have a good one.
Tucky Williams: Goodbye.