The SnyderCut of Justice League is dropping in ten days and (while they were recording our WandaVision Season Finale episode) John, Kenric, Casey and Sumner took a massive detour to discuss their thoughts about what’s happening in the DC movie universe right now and what they’re expecting to see from HBO’s extended Snyder-edited, Snyder-approved, post-Whedon Justice League cut. Sumner also drops the bombshell that he visited Zack’s production office on the Warner Bros lot and that Snyder himself is an “extremely nice man.” Tune into this episode of you want to hear more Snyderverse truth bombs!
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WandaVision vs SnyderBros
[00:00:00] Kenric: Okay. We’re going live. It’s repairing the live stream, but I’ve noticed what it says. Preparing the live stream. It’s actually
John: already live. We’re live. We’re live. Are we alive? We’re live.
Kenric: We’re live on YouTube. Oh, I can
Sumner: see it chilly. I’m almost fully dressed. Haven’t got my
Kenric: usual. Camera’s set up.
John: It’s actually already live.
Sumner: Oh shit. I might try and plug while we’re doing this, then just to prove the live nature of this. I want to plug in my, try plugging my, my actual lights.
Kenric: There you go.
There you go. Although
Sumner: I wasn’t, I didn’t prepare myself properly here. So this, yeah, this look at this, right? Okay. Hang on. Let’s get this done. Let’s get this done some yeah, a little bit. So how, how are you guys?
Kenric: All we’re good. Good, good. Good hired hired.
[00:01:00] John: Yes, I was
Kenric: up late last. This is, this is how my, my, my Friday morning went.
That was up until 4:00 AM. I’m actually using some sort of my video editing skills and making some draining videos for work. And we had a 20 minute long conversation about the work, the use of, of the pound symbol. For, for a code. And then
Sumner: when you say pound symbol, do you mean like a hashtag or do you mean like British?
Kenric: Yeah, but we’re usually using it for what’s called the dial code and yeah, it was just like just, I don’t know, some, some crazy conversations that went way longer than they should for things that are at the end of the day, super superfluous. So it was like, Oh, why? And I had stayed up until four o’clock in the morning.
And then got two and a half hours of sleep and then got up thinking that my boss’s boss was going to be on his call and I’m going to have to present this whole thing. And then he didn’t even show up. And then we had a half [00:02:00] hour conversation on the, the, the use of the, if I was clear enough, I’m showing them to use the pound symbol at the very end of a code.
And it was just like it was very tiring. So, last night I tried to go to bed. We, we rented. Or actually we did the Disney plus premiere access and did RIAA the last dragon. And it was fun, man. I thought it was fun. It was fun. And. Yeah, I stayed up wailing, get water,
John: water, water,
Kenric: Lauder, go the, fuck it.
I can’t even talk wait later, later. Yeah. So I got like two and a half hours of sleep. And then I ended up staying up until like 11, 12. O’clock thinking I was going to be in bed by like nine 30. That didn’t happen. And yeah, it was You know, and then I went to bed and I ended up, I started watching Harlem nights, which is which I love that movie.
And so, but I made it to like halfway through and then I was out and then all of a sudden it was eight 55 in the morning and it was time to get
John: this going. [00:03:00] And it’s all that that’s all super relevant to our competition about one division. It is, I just have to share.
Kenric: Don’t take it away from me, John.
John: I will, I will. So are we just going to go no intro to skip because we’re already going to go
Kenric: into it. No, we’re going to no, welcome back. Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope. Nope. My, my camera is, has a mind of its own. We tighten that up. Let me do this. Tighten this. Okay, everybody ready?
John: We’re live. We’re good. All right.
Kenric: Welcome back to spoiler country. My name is Kendrick. Every time we do this later.
Sumner: Yeah. It’s arranged in different boxes, different things. It’s not the same
John: YouTube I am to your left. Casey is below you and Sumner is below me. Okay.
Sumner: Fascinating. I like the way that you’re pointing, does it match up?
I just think it makes it look like it’s [00:04:00] just this really weird fucking eccentric shit that you do, you know? And, and that’s Mr. Horsley and that’s why you’ve just totally lost any connection with reality.
John: My reality
Kenric: was gone. The moment I tried LSD when I was 19.
John: Anyways, LSD, Kate
Kenric: Casey. He’s like a floating head.
Casey: I just accepted it now.
Sumner: Hey, you look like the spectral ghost of Casey Allen. Court’s in the middle of your comic book pages. It really is very, very unusual.
Kenric: Oh my God. We’re going to go way off track. We don’t do live very often, so I was just
John: going through.
Kenric: It’s all according to plan.
All right, guys. We are here though. We’re here because last yesterday was the final episode of the season. Yeah. Cause they don’t say it’s the finale. We can’t hear you, Johnny. [00:05:00] You can hear me. Oh, now you are. But when you were talking, it was weird. It couldn’t. Yeah, just a second ago. It’s the final episode of the season for one division number nine.
And if you guys have been following along, we have been doing weekly shows every Saturday, just like today. Today’s a little bit more special because we’re alive and, yup. What’d you guys think
John: that the last one, the last one we’re going to see we’re going to the
Kenric: next year, as I said,
John: I think we’re going to have more specifically because the show doesn’t do anything on accident and they call it the episodes called the season finale, not the series finale, which has a very distinct difference in T and T I think if it was, if it was going to be one and done, they would have said Susan finale is or serious time, not Susan.
Right. So I
Sumner: think what’s interesting about that is I think Which we’ll get to in a second or more interesting question, but did you enjoy the finale? I absolutely did. One of the things that I love and it’s made watching the finale made me realize is the degree to [00:06:00] which Feigin all the Marvel co are just completely fucking around with everybody.
When it comes to theories and whatnot, because I had this massive realization that I was thinking, Oh man, it’s going to be a 90 minute fun leprosy because all this shit needs, needs resolving, but then never had any intention of resolving a whole ton of the plot threads. They’re just wide open. And now that, now that basically you’re pretty much going to be getting an MCU TV episode pretty much every week of the year.
I think that it, within the broadcast space, The turning the MCU into being what the print mobile universe is, which is a never-ending soap opera that never resolves and never ends. And with movies, you’ve really got to have a beginning, a middle and the end, even though some of them have been cliff angers, but like there’s a whole that while there’s a lot of resolution and a lot of emotional resolution from a narrative and pot perspective, there’s a load.
Of of like open-ended threads, like, okay, brilliant. White, [00:07:00] white vision gets his full memory and brain back. Brilliant then he fucks off where’s he gone? You just don’t know. Yeah. Well, I mean, you guys told me the name of this show is spoiler country. We’re free to fucking talk about the details. This is a special edition of actually it’s not spoiler country anymore.
I’ll start going. Wait a minute. I’ll start alluding to what is going on. So, so, so please viewers. If you haven’t fucking watched the episode, why are you watching this? Turn, those exact go, go and watch Disney plus like any sane person, right. So, so basically he gets his fucking memory back in shit and flies off.
So there’s no, you know, what’s going to happen with that storyline. The whole thing about about wonder becoming the Scarlet, which I think is beautifully realized, but that. Begs a lot more questions than answers because now she’s effectively become pretty much what she almost was anyway, which is the most powerful person in the [00:08:00] Marvel universe, you know, and she’s involved with the dark hold, which would suggest by the way, Casey is totally fine.
Kenric: really loves the white vision.
Casey: Yeah, too much sunlight coming into the room.
Sumner: I think we’re watching Casey literally transform into another verse in the view of himself, an extra dimensional version of Casey Allen. Yeah. And that’s unbelievable. Wow. Oh, it’s like Veeder or something from the star Trek universe, you know, we’re in the middle of watching your transform right now and, and and.
And yeah, with so, so yeah, it’s but considering the fact that, you know, it ends with the pouring through the dark hold and try and master her powers. Anybody knows the comic book universe knows that’s not a very good idea, you know? Cause that’s the repository of all evil, dark magic in the Marvel universe.
Marvel’s version of the Necronomicon. Yeah, exactly. So the whole thing’s going to fucking blow up so you can see how clearly we’re the step into the Dr. Strange movie happens, [00:09:00] you know, so it would just be very interesting to see what goes on and advert has been left, you know, in a holding pattern for future use.
I think it’s a. I, I loved the way all resolved or ended not resolved. And there’s a load of dangling plot points. You know, Monarch is clearly gonna feed into that into that invasion show that Nick fury is going to be involved with all of that stuff. So I kind of. For a second was surprised that not more shit got resolved without a thought.
No, exactly. This is the plan. The plan is to keep it actually open and just, you know, all of these shows are going to end with unresolved plot points from now on I’m sure. Mike sands of
Kenric: an hourglass. Yeah, exactly. So are the days of our lives.
Casey: We all surprised to see the scroll CRE what I can’t ask for all.
Kenric: No, because yeah, because in, in January or December faggy had that whole 20 minute or 15 minute [00:10:00] presentation about phase four and everything that’s going on. And he, and he talked about invasion. Yeah.
Casey: Yeah. It, I don’t know. I just, I didn’t think I would see it in the show about magic though.
That’s the thing that surprised me.
Kenric: So kind of surprised or do an invasion because they did it in the animated form. They did it, you know, they just done that storyline a few times and it’s not like it’s a, I don’t know. It’s, it’s kind of a, they’ll probably pull it off really well, but it was done.
John: It’s done before.
Kenric: It’s just been done a few times and it’s recent, you know what I mean? It’s not like it’s something that’s been sitting in and stewing for awhile. It’s recent storylines that have already been done. And I just priced
John: this quickly. They did. Vultron really quick after that comment came out and it was, but they changed a lot of it made it good.
So, I mean, they could do it.
Kenric: Yeah. Oh, no, they could totally do it. They could totally, I was just surprised that they, [00:11:00] I was surprised there was that one. That’s all, there’s so many storylines to do that. They chose that
John: one. I was also, I got to correct myself. It was called the series finale. Not this, not the season finale.
I just looked it up. So I was wrong. It was called
Kenric: Ooh, I labeled it sear season finale on the live stream. Thanks Johnny. Yeah. How many
Casey: people listen to this? Or like, Fucking, yeah, it says on the thing, it’s the series finale.
Kenric: John fans right now are screaming out at us. Millions. I tell you,
Casey: I’ve been, I’ve been at work sometimes listening to you guys talk and I’m just like,
John: that’s how we are.
We, we, we are a hundred percent accurate. All the facts
Kenric: are the facts in our heads. That’s right.
Sumner: So the spoiler burst 100% accuracy podcast. I mean, it’s the season for gnarly motherfucker. Oh, no, it isn’t shit. I honestly don’t think it actually matters [00:12:00] or I just want
Kenric: more of it.
Sumner: Cause that could easily be more of it.
Haven’t ruled that out.
Kenric: I mean, yeah. Worried about how, because I remember when, when when she got the role of, of Wanda and they made a big joke about how she’ll never have to wear that. Yeah, because in the comic books it’s so prominent and it’s so promote. And then you, you think about it, you got a cat that really wouldn’t look very good live action.
It would so much, it would look so much like a mighty Morphin power ranger kind of thing, and no offense to all that. Power and your fans out there, but that’s not the kind of look you want an MCU thing. You know, you don’t want that. You, you want
Sumner: it to be no offense to power Rangers fans, but we don’t want piece of shit looking costume.
I mean, you don’t want these fucking amateur night, like mighty Morphin, what the fuck costumes, but she’s good.
Kenric: You know, you’re going to be afraid of what you started off with
Sumner: by the way, mighty Morphin power ranger, fuck [00:13:00] ads. I’m sorry. No offense, but you know, we’re talking about good television here, not the horse shit. You guys walk on Kendrick Regan and I’ll be your host. Speaking
Casey: to people being salty, like right off the bat.
I’ve noticed that a lot of the people who are like the Snyder bros are like, I knew they wouldn’t have ended that series. Good. It was all bullshit. It was terrible. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like,
Sumner: Casey, you are fucking dragging us headlong into topic of mind. Right. That let’s just take a step back for a second.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Kenric: Before you start. I just wanted to say, I was glad that they were able to get her costume and it looked me amazing.
You didn’t want to do that costume when she first got that role, they talked about her and the whole thing with the costume looked really, really, she didn’t want to, you know, she was worried that I was gonna look corny, but it won’t look good or have to be stuck in this thing. They did it so well [00:14:00] on that show, it looks so she looks so bad ass.
Sumner: Oh mate. Lizzie Olsen. I’m calling the Lizzie, like she’s my mate, you know, Elysium Lizzie, Austin must, I think must be very happy with that costume because. Actually they solve the issue of the Tiara, which is cause the costume design that Marvel is really, really good, you know? So they’ve just sat and thought, how do we make this work and make it look cool?
Well, of course you take away the full face framing and you make it literally Tiara and you give it a flavor of, of the original and a, and you know, Lizzie, Austin, so good looking anyway, you know, and once she’s got the right costume design, you bet your life. They tried a whole bunch of variations. And once again, They’ve come up with one that compliments the history of the character, but looks great on the actor.
And she looks amazing. I’m once she became the fully fledged scholar, which had that costume on, I mean, we talked about this lesson last night, right? Can Ray, I just thought she looked great. You know, so when it was like hats off, I never thought you’d make that costume work and they totally have, [00:15:00] but these are the people who made the captain America costume work.
And if you make that work, make anything work. Yeah,
John: for sure. One
Casey: thing I’ve noticed is, is that’s one thing that Marvel has excelled at in terms of. Updating the, obviously like you can’t transition from the comment costume to like television or film, but you can accent it in the movies and make it look spot on.
And I think they did that very well with this and, and consistently throughout their films. I always thought captain America had the most ass costume ever. Like the, it. And they made it look cool. They made it. Like the respect respectable. They made it, they made it look really good and
Kenric: respectful, man.
Sumner: I agree. Do you know that that w word that the first person to truly think about making comic book costumes really work on screen? The first [00:16:00] person was Richard Donner when he made Superman. Right. And, and his whole thing was his buzzword, him and Tom Mankiewicz when they made that film who and tell my cooks is really the screenwriter of that movie, even though he’s not credited as being so the whole watch where it was very similar to that, it’s just.
How do you actually get it to have an internal logic and reality? That makes sense, even though you weren’t this comic book costume, and they spent ages getting the Superman costume, right. And then ages, you know, selling why people would react normally to that. Right. And I think it’s something that they’ve got so right with the Marvel universe.
And I’m going to tell you what I think is their only misstep. Yeah. And funnily enough, involves captain America. The only time they’ve ever fucked up is. The iteration of the captain America costume that piers in the Avengers when it goes from being a helmet to a Cal that covers his ears. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that doesn’t work that look doesn’t work, which is why subsequently they use it for [00:17:00] comic effect when he does those infomercials.
He’s wearing that versus the costume, because it looks kind of dorky. Yeah. And they, they then realized, Oh fuck, we’ve got to bring it back to being the the Bryan hitch style helmet. That’s what actually works from then on that’s what they did. Yeah. But in Avengers, that’s why most of your scenes in Avengers, just look it, hasn’t got the mask on, you know, cause when he’s got it on, it kind of looks stupid because.
It is, it is a covered up and it just doesn’t work for captain America, you know? And I think that’s the only time they’ve ever got anything wrong and they quickly corrected that mistake and then started to use it as an internal joke, which I think is very cool. Cause that’s what they’re very good at hearing.
Most people go shit. We had to actually change the accents of that costume to make it look better. Let’s not mention that we did it again. But they’ve got enough confidence that they go, fuck. That was ridiculous. Wasn’t it? Let’s use it as a joke from now on, you know, so every name you’ve got captain, anything silly, he’s wearing that costume.
If Loki’s doing an impression of him, if, if he’s doing those [00:18:00] infomercials, he’s wearing the ridiculous version of that costume.
Casey: Yeah, at least they didn’t do the as bad as the the over the years helmet. Was it Cal was at least they didn’t do the the nineties version with
Sumner: the rubber
Sumner: Oh, yeah, mate, that film is, is fascinating for a wide variety of reasons.
Not least of which is the red skill is played by a great actor. Actually one of the actors was in the right stuff is Italian, which makes no sense. And also I think it’s great about that movie is the fact that Matt Salinger plays. Captain America stadium. I mean, can we get, is, is it possible to have a stranger connection from one of the greatest literary figures of the 20th century to Marvel comics and nuts?
Casey: you guys see, there was a tweet that went around yesterday. A somebody posted a poem that Vladimir [00:19:00] Nabokov wrote about Superman.
Sumner: What was it?
John: I didn’t
Kenric: see that dude. It was,
Casey: it was weird in that. With me knowing fully that he is also a guy that wrote a book about wanting to fuck a 13 year old girl.
Sumner: He wrote he’s the author of the liter. Yeah, I, yeah. So famously something that was once considered to be a literary classic has now been kind of, you know, times up to metered out of existence.
Quite rightly because it’s pretty fucking creepy actually, no matter how well well-made it is, I wouldn’t recommend it. And he,
Casey: he wasn’t saying that he was the hero that I can’t, I can’t think of his name right now. The
Kenric: protecting of your head up. And then make that sound like that. Casey, I’m just saying,
Casey: I can’t think of the name of the main character from that book, but he wasn’t a hero figure or anything.
It was just like, Oh yeah, this guy’s messed up, but still
Kenric: you gotta send out. You have to [00:20:00] send me that poem. Yeah.
Sumner: I told him was, I mean, it’s, it’s a classic case actually, a bit spin, somewhat misunderstood because it, the protagonist who’s called Humbert Humbert, by the way, mate, that’s what you’re thinking of.
Humble. Humble is your classic case of an unreliable narrator. And what Nabokov isn’t doing is kind of saying, Hey, you know, lusting after, you know, preteen girls is also, he’s saying, this is the story of this guy doing that, but this guy’s relating his own life. And actually. Half of what he’s relating.
Isn’t even the truth. It’s in the same way that Holden Caulfield is an unreliable narrator, right. Generically, but even so it’s such a time bomb of the fucking subject that nowadays you don’t really want to go anywhere near it under a two movie versions of this fucking book. Right. You know, one one’s by Well, one’s by Kubrick.
And the other one is by Adrian line, the creepy British director. He made fucking Oh God, what’s that what’s the fuck he made Flashdance. Right. But he also made that that film with Robert [00:21:00] Redford. And yeah, exactly that film with Robert Redford and dummy more what’s it called? Like unreasonable proposal or some shit like that.
That’s it? Yeah. And Rob, yeah, wait, you know, I’m Woody Harrelson and
Casey: this whole INDB is just. Creepy
Sumner: it’s full of all this creepy shit. Yeah, exactly. And he’s a British director. He’s actually technically very gifted where he’s falling is falling out too. What’s that
Kenric: mate said, we’re the only ones that can go from Wanda vision to bear
Sumner: decent proposal.
Yeah. But I’m watching Johnny’s face. He’s like, Aw, fuck not again. No, even, not even in the same room as this fucking series, we’ve literally been on the earth for like 15 minutes. And we’ve almost not talked about one division until,
Kenric: Oh yeah. Talk about his Snyder bros and Wanda vision and, and, and Andrew will have, yeah, totally.
Sumner: Let’s let’s come [00:22:00] up.
Kenric: We’re going to refresh back to what we are. And then all of a sudden you went in.
Sumner: That’s because Kendrick quite rightly, Oh shit, it’s happening. It’s happening. The divergence is happening right here.
I’m going to pull us back before it happens. And he was absolutely right to do that. And then we pulled back into one division for two minutes.
Casey: I think I might be like the, the, the chaos element.
Sumner: You’re the catalyst that throws a diverse and bomb into my conversation. You’re the Columbo figure. You’re literally the, Oh, just one more thing. I’m like, yeah,
Kenric: it’s the worst. We’ll do podcasts with him. And we’ll, we’ll be doing an intro or redoing something and wrapping up. We’re literally we’ll have said goodbye and kicks. He goes, Oh, okay. Hey, Hey one minute guys. And then it takes him 15 minutes to get his, his his, his comment out.
Casey: If you guys think it’s bad for y’all just think about what my wife has to suffer through
[00:23:00] Sumner: that story.
Be any fucking longer. Right. Kenrick and John of Matt, but you won’t have Casey and you, you may not remember, you might have many Bree, you might’ve met him only briefly. I’ve definitely introduced you to him is the guy that I used to run my division of Titan with. It’s got a call map, right. And Matt was a very close friend of mine.
You know, he he’s always referred to me as like you met him in San Diego as like my adopted bus. He’s an English guy. Who’s now got married to ladies that head of licensing for Warner music, Alex cramp, and the surnames now like cram bus and they live in upstate New York. I’ve got beautiful daughter, like my step granddaughter and He w he works for another toy company out in the U S now, but we’re super close.
I, I, I like I was, I was the efficient to the wedding at the strand bookstore in New York, all this kind of stuff, but this guy bursts, he is, he’s a brilliant person. He’s amazing person. I, you know, I could fill in entire. Podcast [00:24:00] talking about one incredible human being this guy is, but the thing is that’s brilliant about him is he has this vocal style where he, he always starts his stories about three times.
So he’ll go well, riffing is like, when, when I look at it what it looking at it this way, or what I would say is obvious owner. Well, obviously if you take his, what he, what his old friends do that he’s grown up with it. And like in the, in the Eastern London, All these old mates, when you got to the pub with all of them and he bus stops to tell the story, tell a story, they all jump in with like what they think the answer to the sentence is going to be.
So they, well, the thing is you will go for a walk. You know what? When I look at it, you went to the cinema. Yeah, and you have to, and so he can’t start his story ever. And he, and he’s like, no, you fucking passed as fuck shut up. You know? And they all, they all just totally divert him all the time and it is, it’s extremely funny.
Yeah, [00:25:00] so that’s all, that’s what a Casey’s diversion bombs. Which the now, rather than the Jack Kirby mad bomb, you know, my verse of the captain American narrative, it’s going to be the Casey Allen diverse and bond. This was a Marvel headline. It was just a Marvel episode type from the sixties, seventies.
It would be enter. Casey’s diversion bomb. Hey, to believers. You’ll remember last week, we were about to talk about the Snyder bros, but in what Casey,
the Snyder I’ll talk about in a minute, because that will die. That’ll take us out for 10 minutes. Are up here. Well, what happened
Kenric: with that? What?
John: I don’t understand why people are. Hating, I mean, a hundred
Sumner: percent of people, a hundred percent of the time, peace here and see what you boys think about this. I think this, I hate using this word because it’s a Trump word and it is in self totally fake, but Snyder bro kind of reaction.
It’s the year pit of me of fake news. Right. And the reason it’s the epitome of fake news is here’s the thing. As, you know, [00:26:00] like all of you boys, I love my comics. And, you know, I love just about, you know, every comic book ever published that it was good or bad, but I certainly grew up as a massive DC comics fan.
And I grew up as a massive Marvel comics fan, and I’ve always loved both of them. Same time. Right? I love DC and I love Marvel of the Marvel editors and creators. I love the DC editors, Edison craters, the two very different flavors. And as we’ve said before, one of the reasons that Marvel has proved to be so successful on screen is it’s a creative through line through all of it.
That DC doesn’t have. So DC has a much bigger challenge coming up with universe based narrative than Marvel does because Marvel, even though all the counters appear to be quite diverse, they’re essentially created by three people, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, and Stan Lee on the same DNA as in all of them.
And they’re all created within a four year span and we’re all created to guest star on each of those stories, DC comics, complete different thing. [00:27:00] Took about four or five different companies, characters created in different parts of the country, but are wildly divergent people because Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuester are nothing like Bob Kane and bill finger or nothing like William Marston, literally, nothing like that, Tim, because he’s,
we do a whole session on that, on that cat. Right. You know, it’s just so different. They’re just, they’re just not meant to go together. So yeah. Jamming them together as a kind of artificial thing. It’s been brilliantly successful. You know, world’s finest ran for 30 years with Batman and Superman being best friends, and then there’ll be modern iterations of world’s finest to it really well.
There’s a really great version by Dave Gibbons and Steve route that I’d recommend anybody read. It’s amazing, but, but the bottom line is, you know, th th the wildly divergent. Yeah. Okay. They’re wildly divergent. They are unlocking.
Kenric: we go.
Sumner: Hey, wait a minute. Somebody put Vogue on the soundtrack. Okay. Then my donor [00:28:00] appreciation. Oh yeah. So everybody’s very going to assert adept, you know, that that’s essentially the difference now to set up this kind of schism within fandom that it’s their minors. Like, Hey, I’m a DC fan, so fuck you, Marvel fans.
That makes no sense to me. That is the epitome of. Nonsensical thinking you to me, I want every DC movie to be successful. They have not been able to make every DC movie should be artistically successful. And I would say that the first successes. On the big screen. We’re definitely DC successes. You know, Donna’s Superman, particularly the first one that Donald won is amazing.
Yeah. All the time the Burton Batman’s are good. Although the filled with flaws, if you go back now, the Nolan Batman’s are really good. Yeah. I personally really like wonder woman. I, I think man is a nonsensical, but kind of beautiful triumph, even though I think it’s ridiculous, even though [00:29:00] everything in the world is stuffed in that movie, like you’re sitting in the theater and you’re ducking.
Cause you know, the fucking, you know, the kitchen sinks coming past you at speed, you know, it’s like how more ridiculous can they make the song? It’s kind of beautifully ridiculous. Right? But the other stuff’s fucking appalling. And I don’t say that with any sense of glee, cause I want it to be good. She sounds good.
Yeah. She’s AMZ. Great chat. Zam Shazaam, actually I think deserve to be more successful than it was, it was successful enough, but I thought it was amazing. Right. But I go into any DC movie, any comic book, movie, wanting it to be great. I don’t go in it thinking, Hey fuck. He D C you’ve fucked it again.
Marvel’s brilliant. Cause it just don’t feel that way at all to work.
Kenric: Yeah. Well the big difference when I watch a DC movie versus a Marvel movie right now is marvelous. And this, you know, we’re talking 13, 14 years of 23 movies. [00:30:00] Now, a bunch of shows, they have earned this. They have, you can do a Marvel movie now, and there’s so much subs techs on the characters that you’re watching that you already know about.
And not even from the comic books, but from the visual medium of the movies that you’re able to build on top of this DC wanted to be there and they wanted to be there in two years. He got right. They didn’t earn that. They didn’t, they haven’t earned all this stuff. They have. I mean, I loved Zack Snyder’s movies.
I liked sucker punch. I liked SIM city. I liked the Watchman.
John: Huh, you didn’t do something to, that was also terrible. So
Kenric: on SIM city? No, no, he might’ve had 300, he did
Sumner: 300, which was also a front Miller adaptation. So you can see where the line was in your mind.
Kenric: 300. And so I like Zack Snyder as a movie maker.
I think he makes beautiful visually stunning movies. But, you know, [00:31:00] these, I have fun with the D the DC movies. They’re just not on the same level storytelling wise. And it’s, you know, it’s going to take time for them to get there and they really should just sit back and build it because do these 14 years went fast.
We’re going to blink in 2030 is going to be right there. And they could be where they need to be just, just as easily. And they don’t have to follow them. The Marvel media, they don’t have to follow that. W the way Marvel did it, do it differently.
John: Yeah. Just don’t have the better properties and just don’t do what you do.
BVS Prius, smashed three movies in the one movie.
Sumner: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s it. I mean, this whole other problems with those Snyder films, Snyder’s, it’s a great visual stylist, as we all know, but like Tim Burton in a very different way, he’s not good with narrative or story and a big problem with BVS. Right. I love the fact we using these acronyms by the way, because I think Cavill is really a really well cast, but dreadfully written Superman.
It’s like, as we’ve said before on the show, in fact, [00:32:00] Zack Snyder. Doesn’t fucking understand what makes Superman great. The idea that Jonathan Kent can be saying, no fucking keep your head down. You know, everything ends badly. That’s not the right fucking message. You don’t even fucking understand Superman.
And then you’ve got brilliantly cast older Bruce Wayne cause cause actually depressed. I’m depressed, you know, heavy Ben Affleck is a brilliant older Batman. I’ll I’ll that’s a good. You know, cause cause Ben Affleck is a guy that his demons are always fairly close to the surface. Right. Even though he’s a spectacularly, good looking, very handsome, very rich guy.
He never looks that happy. Right. And that actually plays into his portrayal of breezeway. And it’s a really good Alfred by the way, you know, to have Jeremy irons as this kind of lemony Alfred, I think is brilliant. It’s great. There’s lots of great shit in it, but yeah. There’s massive amounts of things that happen in that movie, that if you’ve not read a comic book, it’s like I was saying about hell boy, number one, a couple of weeks ago, maybe it was only last week.
God knows. [00:33:00] But if you sit there watching it, you don’t know your comics, how the fuck can you possibly know who those characters are or, or what their motivation is? How can you know what Dean’s day is? I mean, even if we know what dooms day is, the movie version of doomsday is very, very poorly explained.
Yeah. You know, you just don’t get, and it’s like, how does Lois lane find that fucking spirit? You know, it’s like, what the fuck is going on? It’s not even explained, you know, not that that movie wasn’t messed with by the studio. That’s pure Snyder all the way. Right. And by the way, I’m with you about. Sucker punch Kenrick.
I I had a bit of a sucker punch experience cause at Titan we’ve got a, we’ve got a great relationship with Zack Snyder. Actually we do all his art books and whatnot, and we published the the the art of soccer punch on the first. San Diego party I ever went with with Titan was the party for sucker punch.
Now what’s amazing about that is it’s me and a guy called Chris tether, who was the publisher of Titan comics at the time he’s [00:34:00] retired now and we’re standing in this room on the top of the Omni hotel with all the actresses from sucker punch. Do you know to me? And it’s like the camera pans across, which of these people.
Don’t belong in this scene, you know, to me. And you know, and as the camera passes across these incredibly beautiful actors, then it passes onto like, like me and tether and we might’ve well, have just been the fucking token trolls from Lord of the rings. You know, it’s the two red Englishman at the end of the clip at the end of the queue.
And as we were walking in, they were in front of us and all the pepper actually had taken pictures of us. And that’s me and me and Taylor got onto the entry to the party, all the pack, rats, you just take their cameras down, you know, put them on the floor. You know what I mean? These fucking guys can’t be important in any way, shape or form.
And it was such an interesting lesson about the currency of Hollywood. Right, right. Aye. Aye. Aye. As a result of my involvement, I went to the UK premier that Anna took my son who at that point, you know I’m thinking he’s about [00:35:00] 15. That movie is made for 15 year old boys. Oh yeah. You know, to me, because it’s fucking, Brackens Nazis and impossibly hot women and incredibly revealing costumes, fucking machine guns, you know, to me, it’s like, well, there we go.
That’s the perfect 15 year old kid film if ever I’ve seen one.
Kenric: My favorite scene though, is the plane and the dragon and the, and the castle scene. It looks it’s stunning. It’s visually so stunning. It’s like, Oh my God. Or, or the scene where she’s fighting the giant samurai.
Sumner: Yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Fucking to write me.
Kenric: I just had a lot of fun with that movie. I think people that get I’ve met people that hate that movie, like literally hate I couldn’t stop. How do you hate it? I mean, it’s visually stunning. I said, I’ve said it so many times I got to stop. It’s it’s just such a fun movie and it’s just fun, you know?
And if you just take away and you don’t try to find deeper [00:36:00] meaning in, in, you know,
Sumner: Let’s face it. There’s no fucking deeper means to be had in that film. You know what I mean? There’s more, there’s more, there’s literally more deeper meaning in a fucking Hershey bar rapper than there is in that movie, you know, to me that there’s more deeper meaning and it discarded after you’ve been masturbating, then there isn’t that film, you know, 100%.
What’s this Kleenex full of fucking Jizz. Oh, it’s got more meaning than sucker punch as though there’s hang on. I’ll just blow my nose on it. Oh, there we go.
Kenric: I’ll do the child. There’s a child. There’s a child there.
John: So one division guys. Yeah.
Kenric: why are we seeing a lot of Snyder, Snyder, bros, I guess this is what we’re people are referring to that crowd as I can answer that one division. Yeah. Tell us, I wish see now in which we had Robert on because he is the quintessential smatter, bro. His mind must be just getting, so he must be [00:37:00] screaming at the T at the screen right now.
John: had to use the quintessential
Kenric: term, huh? Yeah, that was, that was completely on purpose.
John: So I think what it is, is like, Hey, the Snyder camp, like I’ve been very public about my views for Snyder. I think, can we say he makes beautifully looking films? But he lacks understanding of the characters. And while I am excited to see the standard recap, because it’s more Superman, Batman stuff that I’m seeing, I also.
We’ll also say I also don’t give a shit. I don’t care if it comes out, but if it comes out, I’ll watch it. Yeah. It probably. We’ll be decent. It’ll be, it’ll be overwhelmingly Mer, I think, but maybe I’m wrong.
Kenric: I want to see it. It’s just, I’m excited to watch
John: it. I’m excited, but I don’t think, I don’t think it’s going to be fantastic.
I don’t think it’s gonna be round groundbreaking, but
Sumner: I think it’s not going to be groundbreaking me not to say that. I want to write that review. Like groundbreaking crap. Like, yeah, it’s not, but. It might be a lot better than the release version.
John: It’ll be, it’ll be better than be better. No, what I’m sure for [00:38:00] sure.
But the thing with the standard bros and one division and Senator bros versus the Marvel stuff, and it’s not all of them, cause Robert’s not this way. I mean, he has a little bit, but I think what it is, it’s like you had this Snyder thing and then this movement that was so intense and. To no fault of the movement, the actual moon itself.
There’s a lot of toxic people in it that were there all for DJ stuff. So anything Marvel was considered, this does, this is horseshit. This is just popcorn, cinema, not good stuff. So they’re looking for anything that can say, well, this there’s something deep here. They didn’t, they didn’t go all the way.
They didn’t go. They didn’t give you a big message like standards trying to do. There’s a whole compare and contrast, not just the actual, just shut the fuck up and enjoy it. You don’t need to compare one division to Snyder stuff you’re into compared to MCU to DC. You can enjoy both separately and there’s a divergence there that just don’t want to do they want to, they want to compare them and say, Oh, well, well, these are better than that.
Or this is better for this reason. Well, if you want to actually compare stuff, let’s look at what actually is a decent story, but, or just fucking shut up and enjoy it
Casey: well with a [00:39:00] lot of them seem to be trying to push Snyder into the. The the mold of the auto tour director. And I just don’t think he is.
And that’s fine. He’s competent. He’s completely competent. His what was it? Day of the dead was pretty bad ass. I loved it. Was it Donna dad? Yeah. Yeah, that was really good. And I think the script was by the guy that did guardians of the galaxy. His name escapes me right now, but. I just
Sumner: don’t think I’m wait a minute.
It didn’t James Gunn. It was James Gunn wrote the script. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Guys, I’m gonna, I’m going to drop a Snyder bomb on you guys right now. And this is name dropping. Okay. You ready for this? Are you ready for this? I’ve I’ve met Zach Snyder and I’ve been, I think I’ve told you this story and I’ve been to his office.
Yeah. And and his, his producer. Worst West toddler is super nice guy. Zack Snyder is literally an office and a gentleman. He’s a lover. He’s [00:40:00] incredibly nice. Yeah. It’s incredibly nice. Very charming. And I have to say, you know, it’s like, I, it, he. Hey, 100% does not buy into any of this source shit. This dominoes is DC versus Marvel.
T just doesn’t, that’s not the way he looks at it, generic to me and everything he does, even if it’s just grandiose entertainment, he does very seriously. He’s just, he’s trying to make, you know, entertainment from the heart anatomy. That is absolutely what he is trying to do. And he’s a good bloke, you know?
So all these people who in his name, Become the soldiers of like tearing down other things that are very successful. He’s not interested in that at all. It’s not like he is not in any way built up by these Snyder, brave figures who were slugging off ma he, he loves Marvel films. Do you know what I mean?
He loves DC films as well, you know? He’s just, he’s just a fan of everything. And when I say just a fan of everything is just a fan of everything. He’s been [00:41:00] given millions of millions of dollars to try and like turn it into Miguel’s. I mean the cool thing about it. I mean, I might my take on the court stuff about the Snyder cut business is a factor.
He’s waived his fee to complete that the way he wants to complete it. And because he waved his fee, the WB have given him 70 million bucks to finish it for, for HBO. That to me is cool that somebody cares about what they’re doing. Somebody who’s just cynically taking the studio dollar and it’s quite rightly kind of looked at the big picture and gone, Hey shit.
I’m well paid enough. Anyway, I’d just rather my version of this became the version that everybody remembered good, bad or indifferent, not this bastardized like Wieden version. Know, to me, it makes a lot of sense to me. I Casey.
Casey: Oh, no. Well, I was just going to say like, it’s.
Sumner: By the way, the reason I did that is because as we all know, Casey has developed this very charming habit of essentially putting his hand in the air and he wants to talk [00:42:00] and it’s become, I don’t know what you’re holding your hand, some kind of bats on, but you keep on kind of going like that every time I see you go like that.
It’s a pen. Every time I see you do that, you know, it’s like, okay, Casey wants to speak. So that’s me acknowledging the fact that the fact that, you know, I, I overtook as I know, I’m sorry guys, you know, I probably not notice this about me, but it’s a flow that I have. I’m the same way,
Kenric: man. I, I I’ll start talking and I don’t know when to shut up and I’ll just keep
Kenric: I think Johnny at the beginning was always talking when we had a guest on and then he quickly just. Stopped, which told me to go to keep going.
And of course, we’re talking now in case he’s still trying to get his point out.
Sumner: I was going to say
Casey: like we we’ve recently kind of found out that that Wieden is not the a nice guy that we were. He was, and that is that’s horrifying. And I’m glad that, that Snyder’s getting a chance to [00:43:00] kind of get his story out there and finish it done.
Sumner: And Snyder’s a good dude who everybody is. It works for them. Only has good things to say about him. Right. And I have a problem
Casey: with fans to comics too. It helps keep it going. Can going back to the meat and taters
John: 45 minutes to those 45 minutes.
Sumner: I know Johnny, Johnny is like the one division police.
He’s like, you know, kind of Vegas man on the inside Vegas, like literally texted him go. These fuckers haven’t sat throughout one division. This is the one division finale show. They haven’t said a fucking word about it. You know what I mean?