Today we are joined once again by Sean Lewis, this time to talk about King Spawn and his book Bliss!
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Theme music by Ardus and Damn The Cow
Sean Lewis – Video interview
Jeff Haas: Hello listeners.
Let’s border our country today on the show we have returning champion. Mr. Shawn Lewis. How’s it going, sir?
Sean Lewis: Good man. I’m good. I’m not called champion often. I’ve had
Jeff Haas: you survived the first interview. You were a you’re the champion sport country.
And then I will say last time we, you were here, we talked about your combo bliss. And that was a phenomenal comp book. Thank
Sean Lewis: you. Thanks. Yeah, it’s a, it’s weird wrapping it up. Caitlin. I had been working on it for, I think at least two years. So it’s easy to have that thing done.
Jeff Haas: Yeah, it must be weird.
I mean, that calm book was so well thought appreciated by the fans. Critics love your book. Well, I mean, it must be kind of weird too, just to be wrapping it up and walking away from.
Sean Lewis: Yeah. I mean, I guess, I mean, the strangest thing about it honestly is just not talking to Kate as often.
You know, you’re [00:01:00] always so many issues ahead of the audience getting it that like, you know, it’s, I mean, it’s, it’s always fun interacting with the fans and everything like that, but there is something and just like the, the weekly, or every couple of weeks connecting with your collaborators and planning out how you’re going to do it and what you’re going to do.
And when that it’s like, then it, then it’s over. And you’re like, oh yeah, that person that I’ve had this like intense relationship with. I now, like, don’t talk to
Jeff Haas: I’m sure she wouldn’t mind you picking up the phone and saying hello.
Sean Lewis: I mean, I mean, we still talk. It’s just, you know what I mean? It’s just like when you’re, when you’re going through and we’re both in different books now, like Kate’s in the middle of doing a black hammer reborn.
And I’m in, I’ve been in king spawn land for a while now. And both of us were basically starting those jobs at the end of the bliss run. So they were happening at the same time and getting really crazy. And then bliss ended and we both were just like, okay, I have to like go and really get into this [00:02:00] gig.
And same over here. This has been kind of insane. So
Jeff Haas: do you think you guys want to end up collaborating again on
Sean Lewis: something I would love to. I mean, I, I I think I, I mean, I don’t wanna speak for Kate. I don’t like to speak for anyone, but I think, you know, it’s cool. We we started out working on coyote.
Six years ago was our first book together. And we didn’t know each other at all. Like we, we hadn’t even ever really met. We met through Facebook, like through a Facebook group, and then that kind of created a friendship. We’d be really became friends through the, through touring and doing signings for coyotes and working on that book.
And, you know, she’s really like, I like, like a really like close friend in the industry to me. And she’s amazing. So like at any point that she ever wants to collaborate, I’ll drop whatever and work with her, you know? So I think, I think we will, at some point, I hope we do, you know, it’s, it’s so hard. It’s so hard to know.
You’re always like who knows where careers. But it’s like, hopefully it would be great if we did
Jeff Haas: so, so when bliss [00:03:00] two comes out, you’re taking it. You’re okay. Come back. I just want to slip that in there.
Sean Lewis: Definitely not doing any bliss without Kate.
Jeff Haas: Oh, that’s interesting. How you phrase that. So coming obviously the way you and issue eight, you have, you had the character parenting, this does seem like there’s a door for a possible issue, nine or a second volume, and you didn’t say no.
Sean Lewis: I mean, it was always planned to be white. What the audience got, it was always planned as an aid issue, a maxi series. I don’t think I ever thought of it as much more than that. And I don’t, I don’t think Kate had either. I don’t know. I don’t know where else I, at this point, I’ve no idea where that story would go, where, or what to do with it.
It kind of was everything that both of us had hoped and wanted it to be. I mean, I don’t know, things come back a decade later sometimes. People reinvent stories in ways that are really amazing. I mean, where I am right now, I’m like, it’s also it became such a personal book for me that I’m like, I don’t, [00:04:00] I don’t know if I want to, if I would want to live in that world again for a little while now.
Jeff Haas: And that’s during the book and you’re developing the story and, you know, I pass that she wanted you to so forth. Were there certain things like certain surprises that popped up that you thought to yourself? I didn’t realize I was going to get here as I was writing, but it looks like this is where I’m headed kind
Sean Lewis: of the whole book.
I mean, I didn’t expect it to be a very personal book at all. It was probably around issue three that I was like, ah, shit, I’m kind of writing my own life. And it started really hitting me that I was like, this is really close to home. And then the entire second arc, like B just became more and more autobiographical.
And then, you know, there’s this code at the end of the, the last issue that we definitely didn’t know we were doing until I think we were at issue six, issue six was coming out when I started writing issue eight. And that’s when I was, I like, let Kate know, like, yeah, there’s going to be this like [00:05:00] autobiographical four or five pages at the end of the book.
So yeah, I mean, there was a lot of twists and turns where I was like, oh, this is not what I thought this book was going to be. But it’s just kind of where the book wants to go. For sure.
Jeff Haas: So, I mean, did the book end up being somewhat therapeutic for you then, as you said, it’s pretty much almost autobiographical.
Sean Lewis: Therapeutic, I guess. So, I mean, I wasn’t really, I’m going to get very nervous about things like that. Cause I think the thing you’re, you’re, you’re always hoping to not make something really navel, gazing and singular to you. Like you’re still trying to get this audience. So, I mean, I was constantly trying to figure out like, how can I make this as inviting and entertaining, but also like really bring you in, I mean the big goals for us is I just knew I wanted to do a book about forgiveness and the difficulty of forgiveness.
And and the only way I could figure out how to do it was to get personal. It seemed like the only way that I could really connect with an audience was to figure out [00:06:00] how to be really vulnerable if in the book itself. And then I felt like people would find echos to their own lives that they would then.
That would draw them in because otherwise it’s a really, you know, it can be a really heavy subject. So you’re like, how, how do you, when you soften with, with humor, but I think the other way that you kind of soften things is by going into the, like, this is something we all experience and in a way that we kind of relate.
Jeff Haas: I really did like how you do cover that is a forgiveness and absolution. And I really was wondering, because it was such the way you Devin fishing, the last issue really kind of hit home for me as well. And just how you’re kind of how you approached it. And I was wondering if in writing it, did you spend a lot of time thinking for yourself how you’ve truly thought about ideas of forgiveness and absolution and how possible it is to forgive someone?
Because in the story you do have a moment it was an issue eight where you have the characters taking both sides of whether or not he should be forgiven or not forgiven. I was wondering if [00:07:00] that was almost you, the beating yourself, should someone like this be forgivable or have absolution?
Sean Lewis: I think it’s.
For better or worse. It’s like, it’s, it’s something I think about really often is not simply just forgiveness, but like, I think about the idea of goodness and how hard it is to be a good person. You know, in a modern world all the time. I think most of the things I write or end up being about that and forgiveness is something that I think about a lot.
I have a young son. And so I often you get a lot of apologies when you have a young son, you also, you also give a lot of apologies because you’re like, man, and I just like lost my temper with you for no reason, because I’m a human being and it’s crappy Friday, you know, and like catching the you’re catching the bronze of it.
So like that. And so, yeah, I mean, I, I think about that a lot. I think about how do people, how do people move on, how to societies build themselves? How do people get better? I think that’s a big thing I’m interested in is like, [00:08:00] you know, in a capitalist consumer based. World. We tend to think of better in terms of like finance or accumulation, like, oh, I’m going to get better so that I can make more money I’m going to get better.
Or the whole concept of better is that I’m making more money or buying more things where I’m kind of fascinated by the idea of like, well, how do you just get better as a, as a human being often with yourself? You know, like I know for me, like half the time, I’m trying to figure out how to forgive myself for stupid stuff.
Like I, I spent a lot of time. I mean, I’m, I’m, I’m Catholic by birth.
So I think invariably, you know, there’s a lot of shame and guilt that you kind of get raised with in that, in that denomination. But I also think people in general get raised with a lot of it. I think, I mean, one of the things that kind of hit me. That I wasn’t sure if it [00:09:00] was going to work or not was, was the response of a lot of the audience reading the book of how many people were like, I feel like you’re writing about me, which was a shock, cause there’s definitely moments where I’m like, man, I hope I’m not just writing about me.
Cause then this book is going to be really embarrassing and really good to read. And so as more and more people were reaching out and going like, no, this is really hitting home. And like the complexity of the argument is, is interesting because like you’re saying like there’s multiple sides are taken at all times in the book around, should you forgive?
Like, no you shouldn’t or you don’t have to, or yeah, it’s, it might be better if you do. It’s it’s all over the place and people all very on it. I just think we live in a world that’s really strange right now where, because we have like immediate ways to contact each other. And, and because I think like Twitter and Facebook and social media almost kind of demand, we feel like they demand us to have an opinion at all times on everything.
The world ends up becoming [00:10:00] very black and white. And I don’t, I I’ve never lived in a world that was very black and white, you know, within my own family members, within my own life within people I’ve worked with, you know, I, I used to do a lot of work in prisons and I used to do some work in like detention centers.
And, you know, I definitely met a lot of people in those places that the, the, the context of their life was not a good or bad. It wasn’t as easy as that. And I think I get very frustrated and scared of a world. That’s constantly telling people like one, you have to make a decision on everything right now is scary to me.
And to that, the only options you have for that decision are. Good or bad.
Jeff Haas: I agree. I agree. I do agree on social media that when, when the major issues I have with it is that it does not allow for growth of ideas. Like however you feel now is how you felt now, but in two or three years, ideally we [00:11:00] all grow.
We get better at understanding and empathy towards others in different groups that we are understanding better, but it’s there for ever waiting for you to feel guilty about what was said and how many years ago when you didn’t know as well. Yeah. It’s a weird,
Sean Lewis: it’s a weird, it’s a weird little time bomb.
Like yeah. And it’s strange to me because I feel like any person that you talked to would agree that the person they are now is not like the person, they were five years ago, thought anybody, I don’t know anybody. I know that I would say that to good or bad, like whose lives I would look at and think are great or not great.
I can’t imagine anyone. I would say to him and be like, Hey, when you were 20, were you the exact same person you were when you were 30? How about when you were 30? Where are you? The exact same person you were when you were 15? Like, I would be so worried if someone was like, yeah, yeah. Even keel man. Like even Q 15 on I’ve been the same person.
I’d be like, G like, fuck, man, I feel depressed for you and everyone who’s
Jeff Haas: known you. Right. What [00:12:00] can I ask? What must you be at that point?
Sean Lewis: It’s such a strange idea to me is this, this idea. And I do think like the. The immediate response is a strange, it’s a strange thing. I just think, I don’t know. I was an English major.
I used to love reading essays and I just think about like how, where the essay form came from. And it used to just be that like French philosophers who didn’t know what they thought about. Something would sit down and write like 45 pages, try and figure out what they actually thought. And there’s a part of me that I’m like, I almost feel like people should have to write 45 pages of what they’re thinking before they tweet it, just to get to like, what, what do they really think or believe before.
Before they’re putting this thing out in, in the public forum, is it? I don’t know. I’m I, it makes me also feel like an old man. When I say these things out loud, I’m like,
Jeff Haas: no, no, I agree with her percent. [00:13:00] And, and also like what you said about guilt, the idea, I mean, there is definitely a dual nature to guilt where obviously it does prevent you from doing things you’ll feel guilty about later, but it’s also an amazing weight that just hovers that weighs you down, even for things that you maybe shouldn’t carry the weight for.
You still do it. I’ve
Sean Lewis: known people who their life has been destroyed by guilt slowly by guilt. I know also some people who guilt make some people really not make horrible mistakes that they’ve made in the past. Right? Like it’s, that’s the thing is everything’s kind of, I, in my experience with people everything’s a little gray, like I know people that it’s a great tool for, and I know some people that it holds them back from having a more full life.
I think for each person, you kind of have to figure. I figure that out. And I think as a, as a global community, it’s one of the biggest questions that we’re not great at dealing with is like, how does, how does forgiveness [00:14:00] and justice lifts live in a society? Right? Like, and that, that I think people wrestle with a lot is, is like, can they can’t can forgiveness and justice live in the same place as each other?
You know, and that, that for me was a lot of what bliss was. What I was interested in writing about in bliss was just like, what, what do you do if you love someone who does horrible things, what do you do? If you’ve done things you’re not proud of, but you’ve moved past them. Like, and you’ve grown. W what do you do with horrible things have been done to you?
You know, like there’s so many sides to it, and there’s no real straight ahead answer to any of it. But we want there to be, no, I
Jeff Haas: agree. I mean, it’s just, and one of the ideas is once again, if you something in your life that you have done, that is bad, how do you walk away from it and say, that was in the past.
I can now deserve happiness now. And to, [00:15:00] I mean, and one of the things I was thinking about in reading blitz, and I think when the great thing about bliss is that you got me thinking about. In a way that I may not have thought about prior to reading your book. And I was saying to myself, is forgiveness and idea for the victim, the perpetrator, or those left behind.
And I think bliss, especially in those scenes had me thinking, you know, about who deserves to give forgiveness, forgiveness is the perpetrator of the right to forgive themselves is up to the victim. That you’ll never be able to get forgiveness from, to say yeah, this is okay. Or, you know, is it for those who are left behind to say, you know, the families who say, you know what, this person may not be able to give you forgiveness, but we can do it for you.
So, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s a very complicated concept.
Sean Lewis: Absolutely. And if you put like the conversation we’re having just before, it’s you, if you put justice next to it, you can ask the same question in, in companion with it, right? Like who deserves justice? The person who’s changed their life, the person whose life was destroyed or the people who’ve watched [00:16:00] both.
Right? Like, like I think they, they do go, they do go hand in hand. When I think w w the question you’re asking is like, yeah, it’s the crux of the book, but it’s also, I think a crux of. Have a healthy society is like, how do you, who, who deserves forgiveness? Is there a, is there a hierarchy to it? Is there even a cut and dry, like, I don’t know.
It just changes all the time. I mean, I used to do work with these inmates in Philadelphia at the prison doesn’t exist anymore, but it was a greater for prison. It was a maximum security prison. And I used to work with lifers there. So basically people who had committed murder and they were part of this mural painting program.
So they would paint murals that went up throughout the city. And what was kind of fascinating is a bunch of the murals they painted with families of their victims. Like they would, they would each take parts of the, of the mural and paint different parts of it. And that was always seen as like they were called healing walls.
And it was seen as like this healing thing of like, can we get these people to. [00:17:00] To collaborate on a project together, that’s going to beautify their community or the community. I mean, a lot of lifers were, I mean, they were lifers, they weren’t leaving. So a community that they came from and you know what?
I met a lot of those guys. I was really fascinated by it. And it’s another, the one takeaway I did have from it. Cause there was some times I was really amazed with victims. Like the families of people who had been killed, who would, who were like actually in the lives of people that were, that had done the murder, right?
Like through these programs, how is that possible? But then when, once you spent time in the prison and you started realizing that. Being across the table from another human being who is trying. And you can tell that they’re trying, like, it’s, it feels sincere. It’s hard not to want to help them. It’s just really difficult to be like, I think you’re a lost cause at someone’s like, I’m really trying to make my life better.
And at the same [00:18:00] time, it’s also knowing that like a victim doesn’t have to forgive anyone who does anything, anything bad to them. Right. You don’t have to forgive people. Right. But then there’s also people it’s again, there’s no, I think people get very worried or frustrated because they think like there’s these easy outs then.
And like, if the expectations on them to like fix things where it’s like, no, nobody has to do anything that they don’t want to, but there are people who’ve been hurt who by not forgiving, end up holding onto stuff forever, and it doesn’t actually help their life theirs. But then the flip of it is also true.
There’s some people who forgive and then they feel bad and that doesn’t help them either. It’s really just like, how do we become, how do we become strong? And how do people have the opportunity to grow both the victimized? How do they have the opportunity to grow and the person who created the offense, how do, how can they grow in my mind?
Both should both need to grow if the society is going to become better. [00:19:00]
Jeff Haas: Oh, I agree. And I mean, I just think about that once again. When the perpetrator give themselves forgiveness me almost wonders if the victim or even the family, or whatever wondered or anyone in themselves as well, do they deserve to forgive themselves?
So that, do you get permission to do that? Or do you need the other people to give you that permission? What I’m saying is it’s a very completed concept, I think.
Sean Lewis: And also so many different places handle it in different ways. I mean, I did, I did, there was a, there was some parts of the book coyotes that dealt with this too, because I had spent some time in in Africa doing some projects at one point and I was in Rwanda and I remember they would have trials after.
After the genocide in 94 where the, these people lived in the same village as each other. So like you were living in the same village as somebody who like possibly killed your entire family and it’s a small country. So they were like, how do we continue to survive as a country and not have people go to war?
If there, if this all happened and they would have these tribal courts where like people would get up in front of their entire [00:20:00] village and just be like, my name is such-and-such. I murdered. This person’s brother. I did this to that person’s father. And now the entire village knows. And a lot of times the village and the victims would then decide an amount of time that they would like wear a pink outfit and live in the community with them, or would they have to go to jail?
It was this, it was this group communal thing. And I, I remember there’s been other cases like when I was working in Philadelphia, I remember there was a, this amazing story I think happened in Maryland, where there was a mom who her son, her son had been killed when he was a teenager by another teenager.
And she went to the hearing and she was. She started writing letters to her son’s killer, like every week and he wouldn’t open them. And then she started coming to try and visit him just cause she wanted, she really wanted to punish him and make her, see his face and see her face. Eventually he started meeting her and he started writing her back and they started to get into a dialogue.
And the most insane thing is that when he was released, [00:21:00] she took him into her house and she was basically like, you killed my son. You’re going to have to now live in his place. You’re going to have to like, be what I’m missing. And it was kind of this amazing. And like, those are the, the outlier experiences.
So it’s like, of course that shouldn’t be everyone’s experience and it’s not going to be, but it does also for me go like, well, the human propensity for understanding and coming to terms with people is, is often greater than we give credit for. But I think the thing that’s missing a lot of times is like, it has to come down to.
Is there a sincere growth in the other person or do they sincerely want to change? I think part of where we live in America, where everyone is media savvy and any apology for any event is being crafted by a publicist. And we know it. Right. You hear it. And you’re like, that’s not real.
I think it’s made us really jaded and untrusting of [00:22:00] each other in a way where it’s like, I’m not going to forgive them. They, they like, none of these people really mean it, but I just don’t know where you go from there. I don’t know. It’s a very like, yeah. Even as I say it, I’m like, I don’t know the answer to it.
It’s a very complicated and sh and, and tangled
Jeff Haas: thing. Yeah. I mean, it, it really, wasn’t getting, like, as you said, every forgiveness, this question of sincerity is a forgiving. Are you, is it forgiveness for yourself or is this forgiveness too? So, you know, as, as a tool to make yourself just feel better, do you actually mean it and are the two mutually exclusive or they see what I’m saying is it’s such an interesting thing.
That’s why I think bliss was so fascinating because it does open so many philosophical questions. That if it could ever be solved, society would be a lot better off.
Sean Lewis: Yeah. And how, how do you not forget the victim and all that too? Because in those things you end up talking a lot. I think naturally we end up talking a lot about the person who’s [00:23:00] done the bad thing.
And I think that’s a lot, what would victims or people who supportive of victims end up raising their hand about is like, well, what about the victim? And it’s like, well, how do we find a thing where both people grow? Like how do we find a place where a victim can grow and not be identified solely as a victim?
Like what, what can be healthy in the situation as well for them? And how, how does an oppressor become someone who is actually useful to the community and can live a more full life too? Like how can everyone just live a more full life? I think is the basic question.
Jeff Haas: When you’re writing something light bliss, is it the moral philosophical question that.
Start with, is it the entertainment value that you’re starting with or is it something the personal needs? Definitely
Sean Lewis: not the other team inside of it. Cause it sounds like the least entertaining thing humanly possible. I mean, that becomes the trick later is like, how do we make this entertaining and exciting and fun and like a great [00:24:00] page Turner.
I think that comes once everything else. I get really interested in theme, you know, I think with, with bliss, especially Katie and I had gone through a couple of different ideas for books. And then there was one night where we were like messaging each other and it was like, I don’t even know if we were talking about a book or just in general.
It was like, oh, I wonder how people just such horrible things can like how they’re able to like live with themselves, you know, in the morning, like how do they go to sleep at night? Like the old Don Lennon song. And then it was just like, oh shit, that might be a really cool premise for a book. It was like, how did people do horrible things live with them, like go to sleep at night.
And I was like, I wonder. And then I was like, well, what if there was a drug they took that made it go away. And it’s like, well, that kind of already exists in different things. Like, okay, we’re very close allegory. And then it kind of built from there. Then I started asking Kate, honestly, what she wanted to draw.
And there was a lot of fantastical elements that she was interested in. So I was like, all right, I need to build a world that can, can now [00:25:00] host these where it makes sense that they are there. And jazz. So we kind of started with theme and then we just started building out world from there. And then once we had theme and world and all those elements, then, then I think I start thinking about like, how do I make this feel like an exciting thriller or emotionally connecting in a way so that it can be an entertaining read while still being about something, you know, heftier and
Jeff Haas: as you’re, and as you’re writing it, and you’re getting the responses from your fans.
Is there a temptation to alter the story to fit the expectations of it?
Sean Lewis: Well, luckily, most of the response from fans and reviewers was like, I have no idea where this book is going next, so good or bad. That seemed to be the response and that frees you up. Cause you’re like, and honestly I done an either, I mean, I, a lot of times in writing from gut you know, like I I’ll outline sometimes a couple of issues ahead of things, but it’s rare that I have some grand super plan.
Or if I do, there’s a lot of [00:26:00] pieces in between that I’m like, okay, They’re going to tell me what they’re supposed to be when we get there. So no, I was a lot more of just like, let the story tell itself to me, if anything, Kate was a really good barometer. You know, if I, if I started writing anything that seemed false or sometimes I would get caught up in like, is this entered?
I would get worried. Like, is this entertaining enough? Like maybe I should add like a fight scene here or a shootout and Kate would read the script and she’s like, why the fuck are they shooting at each other? I’d be like, you’re right. Or she just, usually she just asked me, she was like, I don’t understand on page five by they started to like do that.
And I’m like, yeah, I don’t either. I don’t know. I don’t have. I don’t have a good reason. So it becomes a good like policing each other moment with that, where I then can go like, okay, I gotta be more honest, but she’s, she’s noticed dishonesty in the script is basically what I felt. And then I’d have to be like, okay, I need to go back before she draws it and finds it honest again.
Jeff Haas: It’s like, got to catch up, make sure she doesn’t [00:27:00] draw. Stop, stop, stop, stop. We got to fix it. The
Sean Lewis: good thing with Kate is that she just won’t, she wouldn’t draw it. If she didn’t find it truthful or she didn’t understand it, like she’s great in that way. She’s like, I don’t know how to draw this because I don’t know what it means.
And then I would look at it. I’m like, you don’t know what it means. Cause I don’t know what to mean. It’s like domino right there. So I got to figure out what it means. And then, then I can help you so that you can do your.
Jeff Haas: There was ever like, oh, maybe that’s what it can mean sometimes.
Sean Lewis: I mean, sometimes me and Kate get on the phone sometimes and talk through the ideas, like, cause there’d be times where I’m like, I’m trying to do this, but clearly, cause sometimes it would be straight dishonest where like I’m not trusting myself or I’m getting worried about the audience.
So I’m going to like pop this in. And then she would call me out, but other times it’d be like, I know what I want to say, but it’s, it’s this big conceptual thing, right? Like it’s a big thematic thing and that can be really hard to distill in like four panels. And so then sometimes we would get on the phone and talk about it.
She’d be like, I kind of get what you’re trying to [00:28:00] do in this. But it’s not fully clear. I don’t know how to do it. And then sometimes we talk on the phone for like a half hour or an hour. And by the end of it, we’d be like, that’s the thing. That’s how we do it. Right? Like you just keep asking the question of each other, like, well, what are you really trying to say in this moment?
And then she throw out some images and sometimes I’d be like, eh, those images I get where you’re going with that. But I don’t, I don’t think I mustn’t be describing what I’m trying to do here. Like you just keep working at it until you’re like, oh, we’re both on the same page. And now we both know exactly what that sequence is supposed to be.
Jeff Haas: Now that you do have this audience built up from bliss, going forward is worrying about what the audience is going to think as much of a concern, because you know, they trust you enough to follow, to follow you along on your journey in writing it.
Sean Lewis: I mean, I think badly, I never worried about that before. I think I worried about more.
I think I worried about it more in this book because it started feeling so personal, so it felt very naked. [00:29:00] And I think invariably. Invariably. I think there was a part of me that was like one, this is, is this getting too self-serving and too am I actually are the events of some of my own life actually interesting enough to charge people money to read about it.
And so then I think that’s where some of that comes from where I think in a lot of the other books I was doing, they’re like, they’re big and thematic, but I never had doubts of like, you know, when I was working on coyotes with Kate, I’m like, we’ve got like four bad-ass wolves and one of them is made out of molten lava.
Like the audience will be fine. Like I can do anything and this cool. Both will make them listen to it. Where this felt different because I was like, oh man, parody is like me so much in the scene. And my, is he just whiny? Like maybe I should do this with it. And then, and then just had, I just had to learn to step back and go like, nah, he’s just got to be honest.
And the audience will, will understand, like that’s all.
Jeff Haas: So turning a little bit. Off bliss to king spawn with w thinking about audience and what do you learn from bliss? [00:30:00] Did that affect you moving on your next part? Like king, do you think to yourself, you know, the lesson, what lesson did you learn from bliss that you’re now taking onto your next top series?
Sean Lewis: I write a book that was fun. That was one of the first things is I was like, I’ve done a couple of really heavy thematic books in a row. Because from, I went from like coyotes to this book, thumbs to bliss, and like the audience kept growing on each of them, but they were definitely like I think a thoughtful like books that were kind of heavy in a way where I was just like, yeah, I started talking to Todd and when Todd opened up the possibility I’m Todd McFarlane and he opened up a possibility of working on spawn.
I mean, one, my jaw dropped. Cause I didn’t think that was, I didn’t think that was what we were talking about or a possibility. And two, I just started getting really excited thinking about like, A character that’s so well-known, and I don’t know. I just, and who’s the good thing about is I was like, oh, he’s, it’s a dark, I write some dark books.
And I’m like, he’s like the [00:31:00] darkest superhero I could think of. And so it just got me really excited as I was just like, I just started thinking of books. I loved like some of my favorite, favorite books. Like I like punish her max and preacher and the Frank Miller run on Daredevil and like dark Knight returns.
Like there’s just a bunch of these books. Hellblazer like, like multiple iterations of Hellblazer that I just started going. Like, I just went back and read like all of them, like the moment I got the job, I was like, oh man, this is like a book I bought when it first came out. I want to feel like it did when I was, when I first was reading comics and not in industry and just like loved it and was going month to month, picking up everything at the store and And also COVID hit.
So like, it was a good Amazon time to like, just get trade paperbacks of books. I hadn’t read in years. And you know, not so much for anything that was going on in the books, but more of the general feeling as a fan, I got reading them. I was like, I want to create this. [00:32:00] Like I want month to month the fans of spawn to be like, I can’t wait for the next book.
And I can’t believe that fucking happened. Where is this book going? How are they going to get out of this? Like just how can I make like an, an awesome, awesome action movie. And bring back a lot of the horror that I love and spawn and, and really just have fun, like a lot of fun and in a way that I think the fans long for like that the fans love in that book.
You know what I mean? It’s been around for 30 years for a reason.
Jeff Haas: So, I mean, so were you a fan of Spahn prior to writing? Kingspan like, were you a purchaser of the,
Sean Lewis: I mean, spawn one is the first comic book I bought with my own money. Oh,
Jeff Haas: wow. Nice. I’m all back around right. At 360. It’s so
Sean Lewis: weird. I told it’s funny.
Like my dad is a carpenter and he used to bring me on jobs. And instead of paying me [00:33:00] money for the day, he would bring me to the comic shop. Like, like if he needed extra help. And I was telling him the other day and I was like, do you remember? Like, I was like, one of those books is the book I’m writing now.
And he’s like, ah, stop lying. And I’m like, no, It’s the literal book that like, I remember the job we did, we had to like, basically put like Tara roof. It was like a nightmare, so hot. But I remember going to this place in Middletown, New York called the comic vault right after. And it was when the image line that just launched.
And I remember spawn one and just being like, this is the one I want you to look so bad ass. Like I can’t and yeah, I remember going home and like devouring it. So yeah, I mean, and I was pretty young at that time. So it was clear that like my interest in darker comics was, was pretty set early, early on.
But yeah, it was, there was definitely a trip, like to get the call from Todd or the, it was a couple of, it was a couple of calls to get to the actual to understand what was actually [00:34:00] going on. But yeah, it was kind of amazing to be like, oh, wow, this is getting, this is what I’m going to be working.
Jeff Haas: Yeah.
So what do you differentiate spawn from all the other superheroes that are out there? And is it kind of funny saying sponsored superhero? Because I don’t know. It kind of is, but it doesn’t quite seem to fit. I think
Sean Lewis: that’s a great that’s. I mean, no, that’s a great response to it. I think that’s what I’m going to say too, of like he’s he’s the most even, I mean, it might be unfair to even say he’s morally gray.
He’s the most like E you know, like Superman, if Superman is the boy scout of comic books, spawn is like the antithesis of that he’s he what’s right or wrong is what’s interesting about him is like the right or wrong. Doesn’t matter as much as winning, but what’s fascinating is he’s trying to win for the right.
Yeah, really fascinating kind of thing. Cause you’re like, he’s a villain and he would be a villain in so many other [00:35:00] books. He’s from his look to his actions and behavior, but he’s working for the weakest people in his world and he’s doing it out of a choice and that’s what makes them a hero. And that’s what I think is really fascinating about him is I’m like, oh, this is this like morally like complicated character, but not complicated because he has a drinking problem or a drug problem, or because he wants money, big complicated just in that he, he doesn’t allow for the same emotional attachments of a lot of other heroes and he doesn’t care about people’s feelings in a way that we assume a hero does normally, but he’s going to do whatever he can to save that little boy.
Who’s getting chased down the alley. You know what I mean? Like, and I think that’s, that’s just, just super interesting. It’s a super interesting thing. I think right now it’s interesting too, because in the real world where a lot of villains seem so much larger than [00:36:00] life, that we can’t do anything to take them down.
I feel like there’s almost a feeling of like, you almost need a spawn to be able to do it.
Jeff Haas: No, I agree. And I think interesting. One of the thing I like about I am, I read spot on for a long time younger, and then I start reading spawn again around I think, 80 to 99 or so when it will be celebration, I kind of jumped back in.
I got sucked back in, I start buying the back issues and what fascinates me about spa. Is that he’s he operates at a level, no other superhero is going to operate in. He seems to tackle issues that Superman, Batman, all those wouldn’t approach, because the, the, the law there’s too many clear lines of what you’re supposed to do and not do, but spawn doesn’t have those issues because it’s like, almost like he is bigger than the line in some, in some
Sean Lewis: sense, I think he thinks he’s bigger than the line, at least.
Jeff Haas: And so what do you, if, if you, if you had to kind of, take spawn [00:37:00] the character and break it down to the very essence of the character, what would you say makes a great bond story? Like what needs to, what elements need to exist to make a great bond story?
Sean Lewis: I think what makes a great spawn story and or comic is like incredible bad-ass metal.
Yeah, I think a necessity, I think a larger than life battle or war has to be part of it. But I also think that there’s gotta be a level of groundedness and real world fear or concern that makes all of that stuff makes sense. You know, like I think the best, the best stories have to do with things that like we’re scared of in our day-to-day life and don’t know how to approach and the way it translates in a spawn book is he’s fighting a spider [00:38:00] S demon with giant Fang, mows whose head he tears off and throws in the sky.
And some of the most exciting Greg Capullo ask art, you could imagine to me is a spawn book.
Jeff Haas: And, and the thing that I felt like that, and, and I, and I really, one thing I love about. I mean, part of the, what I love about wine is it’s so bombastic, I mean, every scene, every storyline is so bombastic and it’s fun because it, it is, it is you know, so in the subway
Sean Lewis: it’s like pure comic books in a way that I think a lot, I think you’re right.
I think, I don’t think a lot of books are, I don’t know if it’s because of movies or whatnot, but a lot of superhero books I think are really heavily grounded in reality, in a way that spawns not it’s like everything’s kind of elevated. The reality is elevated, but the superhero scenes are, are definitely elevated.
That I think is really fun, you know? [00:39:00]
Jeff Haas: So, so, so how do you make your reader identify with a character like spawn? That is really, I mean, when you think about it, here’s a character that’s facing heaven. Hell, he’s virtually a God, I think in around issue, was it 200 or so where he almost created like recreate it like a universe or something like that.
I mean the earth. How do you take that and go now identify with the character, you know, as a reader.
Sean Lewis: Right. Well, I mean, part of it is, is just having a real simplicity and clarity of what he’s going after in each issue, right? Like something that the audience can relate to right away where it’s like, I’m seeking this out for myself.
Like one thing that gets me very fascinated about him in general, that I know I’m exploring and it is what does it mean to be this God of vengeance when you cannot ever get vengeance for yourself in the sense that like. So the only thing that ever mattered respond for 300 issues is his wife is Wanda.
And he can’t do anything to fix it. Like she’s dead. Right? Like he [00:40:00] can’t bring her back. There’s no, there’s nothing he can do to go back and change the event that happened. And so. I find it really fascinating that like this impenetrable character has this huge, huge, Achilles heel, but the Achilles’ heel is basically held by himself, right?
It’s not like a bad guy can show up and go, like, I’m going to kill your wife if you do anything. But it’s more of this constant knowledge and absence of her that he has to, that he has to deal with that I think immediately grounds him. Cause like there’s no way to not even for an impenetrable character, it’s impossible for him not to have some level of recurrence.
You know, like what pushes him on at this point, right? Like he’s murdered, he’s killed how many demons he’s blows the dead zones. How many times he’s almost created a universe and it’s still not enough. And then, so for me it becomes like, well, what’s driving this guy and it’s like, how do you make up for losing the thing you love the most?
And I’m like, God, I think audiences can [00:41:00] relate to it. Even if it’s never happened to them, they can understand like, what would happen if I lost the most important thing in my life, how far would I go? Like, what would, what would make it matter to me again? And also I think he’s his impenetrability once you kind of start getting into it, it becomes kind of fun because then like, Every time, any time you can find even a smidgen of vulnerability in him, it’s like a huge event.
Jeff Haas: And I think another thing that’s interesting about spawn, and I must admit, I, I can’t help think the complicate, the how complicated running of spawn can be is that you have a character as well, because, and I always have a question about characters that are magic based on someone spun at some level magic bays.
Is that if you know, is that when anything is possible, you have an issue of a question of tension because you can kind of bring up things that any, you know, at any moment that you don’t, the reader doesn’t know can have. You’re like, [00:42:00] well, you know, like Dr. Strange I’ll create the magic of the magic spoon to eat the soup.
And he’s like, well, I didn’t know you had the magic screen, but don’t worry about it. It’s not, I got it when you’re running spawn and you can almost do almost anything. How do you keep the tension alive in me? So, you know, there’s some, is there any kind of rules you follow that you make sure the readers can expect to know that the tensions there?
Sean Lewis: I mean, one, I, I’m trying to focus a lot on creating really like really spending some time with building up his villains. So there’s real stakes, you know, that, that he’s meeting people that are more and closer a match for him than you’re used to. And also that I’m sort of, I’m trying to surround him with people who also can push in ways that.
He and the audience might not be as used to, right. Like he’s always going to be out. He’s always going to like deal with things the way that Al Simmons deals with things. But what is it, if he has people who don’t back down [00:43:00] to the same degree, it changes the dynamic a little bit more or they decide to do their own thing.
Well, if you’re going to disrespect me, not deal with me, I’m going to do my own shit, hold another whole nother dynamic. So it’s just, it’s just kind of, I mean, the same as most drama, it’s just finding like, what are the things that are most important to them and can I create obstacles to them? And can I make those obstacles surprises?
Like sometimes they’re villain. Sometimes they’re the people he cares about the most, but how do I, how do I bring that up? And how can you find ways of like showing the, the fallout good and bad of what he does? I like that there’s, there’s good and bad consequences to, to, to, to the amount of power. He has and who he is, who he has to listen to or not.
I mean, he doesn’t really have to listen to anybody. Right. So
Jeff Haas: another interesting about king spa. I mean, for the most part, I mean, for a little while, there was a short series called crystal spawn. I think that came out. I think I only made it like maybe 15 issue, 60 inch. I can’t remember how long it lasted, [00:44:00] but it was, it was the only other time when spawn had concurring long ongoing syrup.
And then that was only a mini series of vignettes that built up to a longer, a larger series. But now you have king spawn and spawn so far. How tightly connected are these two titles? Is it going to read or be a fan of king spawn, but not spawn and also How I mean is King’s bond. How does that differentiate itself as a comic book?
A story-wise atmosphere wise from spawn?
Sean Lewis: Yeah, I think that’s a good question. I think that’s something that a lot of people have been asking and I think we’ve one of the things we’ve wrestled with is I think it’s very clear when you’re, when you actually are looking at the books, how different they are.
It’s very hard without giving away spoilers what that’s like before people read it. I think like our editor has done a really good job. Thomas Healey. He’s talked a lot about king spawn, being a very personal book. You know, like I always call out older books, but. A big influence on me and going into [00:45:00] this book was, was Punisher born, like the first mini series that Garth Ennis and the Dave Mazza cellie Daredevil born again, which are both like these really personal books with incredible art and huge battles and fight scenes.
But that like grounded at the center of it is, are these kind of like Gothic stories about heroes finding their way, you know? And I feel like there’s, there’s a level of horror, I think in Kingston. It isn’t in the spawn, but currently, like, I think the Swan book right now, you know, it’s taken on different iterations of Todd’s done how it shifts.
Like it’ll be like, there’s this whole run in Tokyo, the dark horror section of, of king spa of of the original spawn book that like I love and is like this awesome, like Japanese horror. But then like it’ll also swing into like being like a pure superhero comic at times and it, and it does so kind of effortlessly.
I think, I think one of the things that’s making king spot on a little bit different is [00:46:00] like just the time that’s being spent with. With Al and reintroducing some of the elements of his world that we haven’t seen in a long time, but in new ways, and then making it really dark and really gritty. You know, I think like one of the, one of the best notes that Todd gave me early on is we were talking about what the book could be.
And he was like, you know, I kind of want, I would love if it was like a war movie directed by the guys who made uncut gems. And I was like, oh, uncut gems makes me feel uncomfortable at all moments. And like a war movie, like just the stakes. And I think that’s like a good approximation of how that book, how that book operates is.
You’re really with Al and you’re in his head a lot. And, and getting, cause that was something that I was also curious about is like, who is at this point in, in like 30 years into this book, you know, what is he, who is he? What does he think about the world that he’s. Is a really interesting thing to me.[00:47:00]
So yeah, I think, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know how to answer the, like, could you like one or not the other, I hope you like both. I, I guess the best I can say, and I think it’ll become more clear even from the first couple of pages of the first issue that like they’re great companions.
They’re very diff I think there are different books, but they’re, they’re really cool companions and different looks at the same character. So.
Jeff Haas: Because once again, when you have the parents bond book and king spawn is there any best comparison I can come up with in my head for my question? It’s sort of like the justice league of America, wherever happens to Batman is going to happen a Batman comic book of consequences, but just leave America we’ll have Batman, but nothing can happen to Batman rarely because of their regular title will dictate it.
It CA those Kings bond and spawn have a relationship. Where can things happen to king spawn that will impact the regular series? Or is it always going to be the regular series that has to have you know, a favorite, you know, kind of what I’m saying it has to [00:48:00] dictate what occurs?
Sean Lewis: No, I think there’s consequences that crosses between both.
I mean, we were just at the beginning of it, but like, we talk a lot like between me, Todd and Thomas, about what’s happening in each of the books and how it echoes or what problems it causes for a different title and, and for each of our titles, you know? So I, I definitely, I think there a. There’s a, there’s definitely a ricochet effect that we’re aware of.
And we, we kind of engage with,
Jeff Haas: and, and it’s that it’s not a secret that the spawn universe is expanding even beyond Kingston and spawn. I think this meeting will spawn and gunslingers finds a bunch of other titles coming out as well that we don’t even know about yet. Are there meetings already taking place between you and Todd and these other writers about the direction of all these other comics as well?
Or has that not occurred yet?
Sean Lewis: No it’s occurred.
Jeff Haas: And any hands
Sean Lewis: tips? I that’s stuff I have to, I have to [00:49:00] back away from the there’s some big plans. I mean, I don’t even know the, the width of it, the actual scope of it, but it’s, I think it’s a really exciting time to be a creator in the spawn universe.
And it, I think it’s going to be an amazing time to be a fan of the spawn universe. Like. It’s a, it’s a big universe. And I think there’s, there’s so much possibility because of that, of, of like characters arriving and who could have a book or a mini series, or like, where does it go? Like bad. I don’t even know.
I’m just like, definitely from being in meetings, I’m like, oh, the possibilities of this. I really huge. If, if this continues to go really well, this could be, I it’d be hard to imagine where, where it could stop.
Jeff Haas: Is it weird writing a character like spawn that is so I’m associated with a creator like Todd McFarlane, cause obviously the integrator and he’s been, his name had been for so long.
Like, is it odd if you were like, no, [00:50:00] Todd, I think spawn, consult culture happen like this. It’s like, well, I credit your damn cat. You know what I mean? Is there a room to have that argument?
Sean Lewis: I think there’s a lot. I mean, Todd’s awesome in the sense that like, I think Todd will push to obviously Todd, anyone who has watched videos of Todd, he is the furthest thing from a, a shrinking violet possible.
If he’s not happy with something and he’s going to be very clear about it, He’s been really great about giving room and also like doing what he needs to for the book. Like, I don’t know. It’s just been a kind of cool collaboration, I think, as a creator coming in, like it’s impossible not to know, like, this is Todd’s life work, right?
Like this comic, but like he spent 30 years, like building this thing and like dreamed it up when he was like a teenager like this, this is like the closest thing to a true life work I can imagine. So yeah, I mean, there’s definitely conversations. I think also my temperament and my background, like [00:51:00] I’m so much more interested in collaboration than argument and I’m most interested in the best idea, more than like any level of ego.
So it’s, it’s a lot of times like, A lot of times more than an argument will be like, well, what are we going for? Like, if we don’t like this line or this scene, like, what’s the point of inviting about it? What do we need to accomplish? What do we need to happen? What are we trying to do in the book becomes the more important conversation.
I think that that’s something we’ve all been really great with. It’s just working out, like, what’s the coolest experience we’re giving the audience at all times. And like, yeah, it’s good. You know, there’s times where like Tom Thomas, the editor will throw out an idea and I’m just like, fuck, that’s a great idea.
I’m going to change. Everything was dead. And there’s times where I’ll have an idea and same thing. And then like, there’s times for Todd’s, like, I don’t understand, you know, when we were working on the first issue, especially the first issue was the hardest one because. How to get people into a spot, a brand new spawn book I was definitely wrestling with and Tom was great.
Cause there’s times where I turned something easy. Like, [00:52:00] ah, this is really cool. If it was issue five, that’s a really fair assessment. And I don’t think you’re wrong. Like I think, and I think at that point he was really great in the sense of, he was like, don’t worry about writing my, my spawn, write your response.
And that actually helped a lot. Cause I think I was worrying about like, how do I serve? I was almost worrying too much about like, how do I service Todd and make this. Like, a facsimile of what the book has been. And then I feel like that kind of gave me room to go like, nah, what do I want to see that I haven’t seen?
And what if I take some big swings and he’s, and, and realizing like, he’s rooting for me too, he’s there to tell me like that swing too big, or like not the wrong bat. And then sometimes it’s like, no, I didn’t see you. I didn’t think you were going to do that. But it worked out really cool. You know? So it’s been more of like that working on the,
Jeff Haas: yeah.
And I really liked the idea that you’re kind of delve deeper into Al who Al Simmons is because in reading spawn, he’s such a closed off guy. I mean, he, he definitely, I mean, you’re [00:53:00] talking about, you know, the idea of like, you know, the closed-off man, you know, like I cannot share my feelings on the stuff.
He is a hundred percent that guy. So how do you peel part those layers and get to. Who does extremely, you know, I’m not, I’m almost emotionally stunted, Hey, that, you know, that spawn is, I
Sean Lewis: mean, sometimes slowly, sometimes by surprise, but it definitely think, you know, it’s, it’s a thing that I I’m interested in.
I think the audience also gets interested in is like, who is some of the man behind the mask, I think is an interesting, it’s an interesting question for people at this point, especially cause ALS unlike any other. Major superhero alter ego, right? Like, like we can, we all feel like we have a really good understanding of who Clark Kent is.
And Peter Parker is, and Bruce Wayne, there’s a different complexity, I think in Alison, [00:54:00] like I just think that a different level, like, what does he think is good or bad is it could be argued in so many things.
Jeff Haas: Yeah. I, I, I agree. Cause I mean, in, in a universe where heaven is a villain, what the hell is good?
What does good look like? The spawn heaven is a bad guy.
Sean Lewis: Like how does he, how do you define it or how does it change? Like how. Moment to moment. Does that become something that you can even define? You know, so like, those are the things where I’m like, which I mean, as we were talking about with bliss is kind of my feeling is how I feel towards our general modern world is like, what, what is, what is good?
Who do I trust? Is it evolving conversation? And I’m like, yeah, he’s kind of the hero of that.
Jeff Haas: And the other question I always have with spawn too, once again, considering the sheer size of the battle that he’s fighting. And in many ways he’s finding a battle much more real than Superman or Batman. Because as I said, the fighting good or evil Batman, Batman’s fighting [00:55:00] a bank robber, and that’s how he faced villainy.
And he can never stop villainy. Cause he’s always gonna be another bad guy coming around, but spawn is fighting on a, such a level where he literally is fighting evil, literally evil, you know, literal heaven, literal hell what at that level of battle, what is victory for spawn?
Sean Lewis: That’s a huge question. I mean, that’s a lot, that’s a lot of what I’m actually curious about in the book in general.
I think that’s, I think we’re saying the same thing as when I’m, when I’m like, he’s a God of vengeance who can’t get vengeance for himself. So at what point can you be done right as is I think a huge, huge, I think that’s the primary question of.
Jeff Haas: So, also just the artist is Javier Fernandez that correct?
Yeah. He’s amazing. What was he bring to the table?
Sean Lewis: He’s incredible. I mean, he helps change the book a lot cause there’s times where I’ll see a page and I’m like, all right, I gotta, I gotta write more of that. Now hobbies, incredible. I’ve just been really [00:56:00] blown away every time he sends in pages. It’s amazing.
And even from the get-go, you know, like I was going through his Instagram and looking at some of the things he drew and I would see like Gothic architecture at times. Right. See a certain layout or design and suddenly it becomes like, okay, that should become part of the identity of this spawned book.
Like what you’re doing in this Batman splash page. I think that’s incredible. And if we did it with this type of iconography, like this, this should be what the book is and we’ve really what’s cool. Is that. Hobby and I, through this has become really big fans of each other. So now on Instagram, we just kind of throw ideas back and forth or influences, like he found this amazing anime a couple of weeks ago or a couple of days ago.
I mean, and he started sending me pate panels from it and I was like, oh, I have to incorporate some of this in what we’re doing, you know, like, and place versa. Like, I’ll be, I’ll see a movie and toss it his way and be like, I’m thinking for the second arc that like, we might be here. And like, I don’t like not visually, but totally.
This is what we’re [00:57:00] looking for. And like, once you can start having those conversations, you know, the book starts to feel really like a singular, you know, like if it was less of like, I’m just dictating to you panels to draw on more of like, how is this or thing organically coming to life.
Jeff Haas: So what can our, our listeners look forward to in future issues of Kingsport or the first issue of can spot?
Sean Lewis: Sure. I think it’s gonna, it starts off fast. I think you’re going to have some old favorite show up in new ways. I in good and bad, good guys and bad guys and everything in the middle. You know, for me, it’s a lot of like getting to have fun with like, getting like, almost like a new origin story, like how getting to revisit old haunts but with steaks.
So I mean, a lot of what I was fascinated and trying to do in this is like, how do you make a book that someone who maybe read their last bond comic in 1998 can pick it up with somebody who started reading [00:58:00] again at 300 and can pick it up with somebody who’s picking up their first phone book ever. And they all run into each other at the comic shop the following month.
And they’re like this fucking book’s amazing. That’s really been, the goal is like, how do you, how do you connect with all of them? And give them the best spawn book possible, I think has been at least my goal from day one.
Jeff Haas: Well, I’m going to have to ask then are we gonna see the violator by any chance, anytime soon
Sean Lewis: that’s stuff, you’re going to see a lot of people.
You see a lot of people you do not expect to see. That’s as much as I can kind of say on that at this point, but there’s a, there’s a lot of plans and excitingly, a lot of long running plans and a lot of surprises I think coming in people’s way that I think people will be excited for.
Jeff Haas: Well, I definitely look forward to reading it.
Like I said, as someone whose slices came back and just bombed pretty heavily or I guess it would be almost a year and a half [00:59:00] ago, I’ve gotten really into spawn. I look forward to this, the spinoffs and I’m, I think this is extremely exciting moment to be a
Sean Lewis: spawn fan. I think so, too. It has been insanely fun to work on and having seen a lot of it.
It’s just fucking cool, man. Like, like I even myself, a fan voice, self of my own family cell phone, a lot of times I’m just looking at it. I’m like, this is just fun and it, and just like good comics, like just like fun, exciting comics, which people, what do you mean by that? Like, my wife will be like, what do you mean good?
Like, you already make comics. I’m like, these are different. Like, these are like, we feel like comics when I was young, but they also feel timeless, which I miss. I sometimes miss, you know, like I it’s, it’s exciting. I think it’s going to be exciting for everybody.
Jeff Haas: Well, I think so. And I want to thank you so much, Mr.
Mr. Lewis for talking with me, it was a great pleasure and you always come back to talk more spawn and whatever else,
Sean Lewis: and I appreciate that. Thanks a lot, man. [01:00:00] Have a great night. You too. Take care. Bye.