Stan Lee A Marvelous Life with Danny Fingeroth!

Danny Fingeroth Interview

[00:00:00] Casey: All right, everybody. Welcome again, to another episode of spoiler country today on the show, we have author of a marvelous life and it is the story of the amazing story of Stanley. Let me see. That was terrible.

All right, everybody. Welcome again, to another episode of spoiler country today on the show, we have author of a marvelous life, the amazing story of Stanley Danny finger off, and

Danny Fingeroth: Danny, how you doing, man? I’m good. How are you?

Casey: I’m great. And I’m really excited to talk to you. Okay. So in the lead up to the show, I I’ve read your wonderful book.

It’s amazing. I really, really is. It’s in the title. Amazing is I really enjoyed it. And As an aside, I am in the process of writing my first comic. And I was talking to my artists today who lives in England. And I told them what I was doing this afternoon. And I said, I’m going to be talking to Danny finger off.

Do you know who that [00:01:00] is? And he said, I’ve read his book is great. So, your your book is, is well-liked by all the people that I’ve talked to talk with about it. So that’s

Danny Fingeroth: good. And there’s an audio, the audio book reading myself too. So if you’re an audio book person you know, they might want to check it out, but anyway, go on

Casey: the version that he had and he, he, so, so Danny, tell me, how did you, how did you get into comics in the first place?

Like what drew you to comics rather,

Danny Fingeroth: you know, Something about comics on the time I was very young. I mean, I mean, you know, I was a kid just attracted me in a way that I don’t think every kid responds to, you know, everybody grows up with comics and sees comments. It just captivated me. My Vegas early memories, or you know, with the Popeye [00:02:00] cartoons are popular when I was a kid, I’m a boomer, you know, I’m a fifties and sixties kid.

So there were Popeye cartoons on TV. And I think my parents got me Popeye comics. And then from there I had a cousin who gave me some superhero comics. But there was something about the medium. That not everybody responds to. Right. I think everybody knows people who are very intelligent and well-read, and well-rounded right.

And, and, and they’ll say I don’t know how to read comics. I don’t know if I look at the words first and the pictures for it’s very confusing and, and to those of us who get it, it’s kind of like really at it. And you don’t even think about what’s first. You just sort of, there it is. It’s all there. You take it in.

But there was something that really grabbed me and especially a superhero comics, the BC comics of the late fifties and early sixties. And then when the Marvel comics you know, on fantastic four came along those [00:03:00] really spoke to me. And, and, and in a very deep way that something about what Lee and Kirby and Lee and Bitco were doing, just hold me in and, and And, and, and really hypnotize me

Casey: and this actually led you to eventually one day teach comics on a collegiate level, which is fascinating to me.

Did, did you really have, have you gotten a lot out of that, just being able to kind of share that love and share that

Danny Fingeroth: knowledge? Well, actually, let me, let me, let me start with the plugs for it, because I know, you know, I don’t want to get to the end of the show and forget I’m actually teaching a course in comic book editing comic book and graphic novel editing a two week, a two weekend workshop at the comics Plex website.

That’s C O M I X P lex.com website. So I, you know, in that I will be teaching comics editing as well as just telling stories of my career in life in comics, teaching comics [00:04:00] on a college level and on an adult ed level was. It was really interesting. You know, cause it’s sort of, especially if it’s adult ed you don’t know who’s going to show up, but you know, you know, kind of, here’s this thing that I’ve been involved with in one way, shape or form since I was like five years old and and I have all this weird esoteric knowledge, like I’ve learned all this stuff, you know, through doing it through, screwing it up through, you know, dealing with all kinds of people and all sorts of crisis situations and having to, you know, put together teams of people and then, you know, make characters like Spider-Man consistent and familiar yet new.

And, and, and so I’ve amassed this, you know, as you know, it says most of us who work in comics for any length of time, it’s really kind of narrow, specialized. Kind of information and [00:05:00] skillset, which can be applied on a wider basis too. So, so just to have to actually articulate that to in front of people and try to express it in words and pictures and, and try to pass it along.

Yeah. I, I found, I found, I find teaching, I haven’t done it so much lately, but there’s about 10 years when I was doing it pretty solidly. And it you know, when you teach, when you have to prepare to teach and then you do it, you know, I think it made me much more comfortable in front of of, of audiences, you know, which led to them like a four year period where I was traveling with the wizard world convention chain doing like hundreds of panels a year.

But, but having to think about having to think about something that you think, you know, Really is educational for the person during the teaching as much, or if not more so than for the people who are the students.

Casey: That’s awesome. And it’s, [00:06:00] it’s really cool. Just being able to to just kind of showcase your knowledge and, and get that stuff out there.

I’m, I’m, I’m loving. I actually pulled up the the comics Plex site. That that talks about your your editing talk that you’re going to do. Well, it’s not a talk,

Danny Fingeroth: it’s an interactive, it’s a two weekend interactive workshop, you know, so it’s limited seating. And so it’s not just me blabbing away, you know, it’s not, it’s not just like a video, it’s an actual live class where they’ll leave questions and make some sizes and so on.

Casey: And I’ll, I’ll put that in the the show notes also, so people can click on the show notes for this and get at it. So, yeah, that, that that’s really awesome. So you, you got into comics at an early age, kinda pretty much right after college. Pretty much. Was there, was there anyone that just kind of took you under their wing?

Danny Fingeroth: Huh? That’s a very good question. You know, my first boss was Larry Lieber. Stanley’s [00:07:00] brother, brother. Yeah. And he had just recently come back to Marvel. He had left to, to work as the editor in chief at that Atlas company, that was a short-lived seventies, but there’s a whole saga behind that. But he, he was, he was running the what was called the British department at Marvel, which was putting out comics, mostly reprints, some new material.

We were repackaging it for publication in England, in black and white anthology comics, which was which was a popular format in England. So I learned a lot from Larry, you know, I learned I then went on to become Louise Jones. Now people might know her as Louise Simon. So I became Harris’s.

Casey: She is amazing.

And

Danny Fingeroth: I learned a lot from her and I certainly learned quite a bit from Jim shooter, who, who sort of saw part of his job. As editor in chief you know, as being a teacher also and, and passing on the knowledge and skills that he [00:08:00] had. So I, I think which I, and I think I benefited because, you know, I mean, while we all work putting out Marvel superhero comics, you certainly can’t ask for three more different people than Jim shooter Lewis Ahmanson, and Larry Lieber, you know, their personalities, their approaches, their experiences is, is, is, is, are so widely different.

That, that I really had the benefit of of, of learning and working with just people who were the best at what they did, but in very different ways.

Casey: Yeah. Yeah. And so when you came in, you shooter was, was already there. Right? What was he? He’s there

Danny Fingeroth: for a little bit. Shooter was working as Archie Goodwins, executive editor.

And then after about six, you know, I came in about six months before she later became editor in chief.

[00:09:00] Casey: Okay, cool. Cool.

Danny Fingeroth: So

Casey: when you were, when you were there, what w what were your first tasks? Like? What were you in charge of?

Danny Fingeroth: Well, I mean, it was, it was the assistant to the editor of the British department.

Interestingly, my counterpart, because we also had an office in England and the guy who was the assistant editor, there was a guy named Neil, Tennant, who you may know is one of the members of the pet shop, boys.

Casey: I knew that name sounded familiar, but it was not from

Danny Fingeroth: comics. Yeah. But before he was a pet shop, boy, he was the assistant editor at the, in the British office of Marvel comics.

And so my first job was, was actually because I had sort of a, I was not active in fandom. You know, I was not a capital F fan. I had kind of, you know, after kind of the, the early seventies, I kind of got into underground [00:10:00] comics and independent comics and, you know, not so much the superhero stuff, I’m a huge Harvey peak, our fan.

And and a, and I, and I had the privilege of, of being somewhat friendly with Harvey. And I did a an event with him in New York. That was really like a, it was, it was a Harvey P-Card night in all senses of the word. And that was about, about a year before he passed away.

Casey: Oh, wow. That’s, that’s so amazing.

You were able to, to get to know him.

Danny Fingeroth: Well, I mean, I mean, one thing I’ve, you know, I mean, look, it’s been many years since I worked at Marvel and I, and obviously I’m best known for what I did there. And I was there for almost 20 years, but I’ve really both through my interest and just through necessity, try to make myself conversing and maybe even expert in a wide range of comics and, and, and cause it’s a big world of comics out there, you know, from.

You know, from rain, you know what I mean? Look, Raina Telgemeier is the most popular graphic novelist in the country, if not the [00:11:00] world, and she’s not a superhero writer or artist, you know, she does those things for for, for, for Scholastic that are insanely popular. DAV Pelkey is another one, you know, there’s this, you know, you sort of just, just to keep up and I do enjoy this stuff.

And then, you know, I, I don’t know if you know, this there’s too much comics and too many comics for any person to know all of them, but, you know, it’s a, it’s an incredible medium, incredible world. So, how we got to also my first job. So my, so because I had not really been paying super close attention to what was going on in Marvel.

When I came to the British department, since most of what we were putting out was reprints. You would like, I’ll take an issue of whatever Spiderman and split it up into three or four chapters and we’ve commissioned new splash pages. Because I said that was the competition, mingling anthology, titles like that.

So I, so I ended up sort of catching up on a lot of stories and continuity that I’d missed over the past six or seven years. And [00:12:00] that, so that was very, it’s kind of it, excuse me, educational plus learning from Larry and from, you know, Sal Brodsky was was I was overseeing the department. And so I was one of the original Marvel bullpen in the sixties.

And you know, sorry, you, as you alluded to may, I think maybe before we went on the air or whatever you call it with a podcast, you know what we officially started recording you know, what it was, what, you know, I did end up. You know, working with a lot of people who I knew as names from my childhood and you know, what I, what I, you know, sort of a thing that I came to realize kind of the day, you know, you’re a professional, you know, I guess in comics and probably in any field you go into is when you’re, when you’re on the phone with like your childhood idol and, and you’re saying, hello, childhood idol.

I can’t [00:13:00] believe I’m talking to you. I have to pinch myself to see I’m not dreaming. I’ve loved your work since I was a kid. And it’s such an honor to talk to you now, where are the goddamn pages? You know, that’s the moment, you know, you’re a professional, you’re a bit when your bedroom, because what idol for work that they owe you, you know,

Casey: Yeah, that, that sounds terrifying, actually.

So do you think that because you worked in a department that was kind of adjacent to like the, the main output of Marvel, do you think that kind of gave you an opportunity to kind of learn that, learn the trade while you’re doing it and kind of take in a little bit more because it wasn’t, you weren’t really under a microscope?

I wouldn’t think

Danny Fingeroth: in a way, I guess, you know, I mean, I think, you know, I, yes, the short answer is yes. I, I would [00:14:00] say though that you know, in comics it’s one of those professions because, you know, obviously to state the obvious, which I often do, you know what I mean? You know, we publish comic books, so, so, so you’re.

Your earliest rookie mistakes are in print forever. You know, you know, some something you may have done that’s embarrassing or just bad or confusing, you know? So, so I guess in that sense, I did have a little bit of a buffer. The dance I was kind of the British department was not really highly respected.

I mean, I think most people in the company didn’t think about it, but, you know, sort of, you know, we took some ribbing and but it wasn’t, it was a place where a lot of people, you know, got their training because since we did have need for, you know, new splash pages, new covers, it was, it was a place for people breaking in to, you know, to do a one page [00:15:00] thing or something, you know?

So, I think John Romita Jr. Oh, wow. It’s a lot of work for the British department. I don’t know, not a lot, but certainly a good deal. You know, of course the names of other people are slipping my mind, but then Steve styles and Jeff Acklin, there were gene Colan did some work. I mean, obviously gene was not a beginner by any means.

Gene was Jean easily. Yeah. And, and, and Larry himself her trampy and Chris Claremont that’s a guy named Jim Lawrence who is better known for his work in in comic strips. Gary Friedrich, you know, a lot of people Mike Esposito would come in and he would touch up the, the the photo stats and zipper town that we had pasted onto boards, you know, or the production department of pasted onto boards for the British books.

So it was a. You’re right. It was like, it was, it was a good sort of way to kind of keep a low profile, but learn stuff. It was, but it was, [00:16:00] it was funny because after about a year, a guy named Dez skin who was a British publisher, probably best known for warrior magazine. And he was also at that point, the publisher of the British mad magazine, he made the crazy proposals to Marvel that maybe the British comics should not be done by, again, a bunch of guys from the Bronx and Brooklyn and Queens, but should be done by actual British people.

You know, what a concept. And, and so, let me, I’m, I’m simplifying it, you know, also because I don’t know all the back, all the backstage machinations, but I basically did is made that pitch and Marvel said lots of good idea. So Larry at that point went on, he was drawing at the point of the Hulk newspaper strip.

So that’s where he went. And eventually of course, he went on to draw the Spiderman, his biggest career for decades. And I ended up sort of having this kind of what I call it. The Danny fingers, Memorial job. You know, they [00:17:00] liked me and they wanted to keep me around. So they made me a shared assistant between Jim shooter and Sal Brodsky.

Oh, wow. So I was in charge of special projects. Jim was of course in charge of, you know, all of the, the mainstream Marvel. So I got to do a lot of, kind of odd audible, you know, Marvel maze and puzzles books, and reap, you know, the paper bag reprints. And I was still the British liaison. So I was in charge of getting the reprint material thing when it also star Wars had Oh, wow.

Okay. In the Marvel star Wars comic, which many people think saves Marvel in the seventies, you know? And it’s probably largely heat degree. True. You know, they were using out the star Wars comics At twice the rate in the UK as we were in America. So we, so that, so I was the assistant editor to Archer.

Good one on that because we had to really produce it at a very [00:18:00] fast pace and get it and get it to England. So you had the, all these strange, then I ended up being yeah. Editor of of this line of reprint titles that Marvel had put out, I think really, because they had commitments to advertisers for that their, that their heads would be in a certain number of comics and, and they weren’t, we weren’t putting out so many then.

So suddenly I was editing like half a dozen reprint titles. So I did that for about a year. And then when Louise was hired, when she came over from Warren publishing they assigned me to her as her assistant. And luckily we got along very well, but I mean, so there was, you know, there, you know, so, but, but as that, so comics there’s.

You know, it it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the eternal, you know, do you want it good or do you want it Tuesday? You know? And the answer is, and, and, and so you, you know, you learn on your feet, you learn on the job, whatever expression you want to use, but that was it. It w it was and, but in a way it was sort of a [00:19:00] graduate school in comics.

Casey: Do you mind if I ask you a very stupid question,

Danny Fingeroth: Give me your best shot. I bet it won’t be the stupidest question I’ve ever been asked. I was

Casey: just wondering if when you worked on, on the British line, did you have to anglicize the spelling for the,

Danny Fingeroth: the dialogue, the color glamour into glam or lift into elevator? Nice what the ridiculous, ridiculous thing was a who we fallen.

And B if you were, I mean, if, if you were interested in Marvel comics, then you had to know they were American, but actually, and Marvel did print some of their color comics and just, you know, send them over to England. Then I guess, for the real hardcore fans, they weren’t going to buy the black and white blueprints.

They were going to buy the regular, a taller American ones. But that was not a stupid question at all. That was, that was actually, you know, I’d say [00:20:00] 10% of my time was spent, Oh my God,

Casey: suddenly Spiderman seems so much more erudite. Like

Danny Fingeroth: there was a certain amount of time. There was, there was an angle sizing words.

Casey: So blimey my jumper messed up by dark Hawk. Oh no,

Danny Fingeroth: I don’t know if we went that far.

Casey: So, this, this leads me to, to stand, like when, when you started, he wasn’t around so much. Was it

Danny Fingeroth: when I started he hadn’t moved to California yet he was, but he was traveling a lot, but he was, he was a presence in the office, but I didn’t really have, the only time I deal with him really directly was safe.

Larry was on vacation with Stan actually, until he moved to California is he was still technically the publisher, you know, and he. If he was there, he would approve all the covers and all the cover coloring. [00:21:00] So say if Larry was on vacation or out sick or something then I would be the one to bring the British Culver sustained for approval.

I don’t have any super strong memories of that. I, I you know, those early years and then, you know, pretty soon he did move slowly to the West coast. So I, you know, my memories of him kick in really, I mean, I remember he’s at him as a kid, you know, obviously that that’s as a fan and listening, reading the comics and the, you know, forming an impression of him and Marvel from the bullpen bulletins and the, and the, and the column answers and the soap boxes.

But, you know, before there was a standardized bullpen bulletins page, Stan used to write these long elaborate letter columns with responses to all the law. I mean, obviously pick letters that would set him up. To give witty or, or, or promotional answer, but that really bonded him with me. And I think, I think with a lot, you know, there were a lot of people at Marvel who were kind of my age within a [00:22:00] year, either way, you know, it was like we were in Wald and for all pots.

And there were a lot of, a lot of other, other people were just, you know, were hit by that Marvel phenomenon. So, you know, I remember going out when a shooter brought all the editors out one year for the San Diego con and then two, and then we went up to LA, I remember visiting Stan. Then he went to Stan’s house.

You know, I think, and then the year after in 84 is when I edited this annual, that stands scripted. That was surreal being Stanley’s editor. Oh wow. You know, and he was really, he was one of, you know, he was a very, it was a total pro you know what I mean? I mean, I don’t know where I got the nerve to do it, but I understand this is not working or this is working or I think this would be better.

And he would, if he agreed with me, he’d compliment me and say, thanks. And if he didn’t agree with me, you’d argue his case. But he said, well, put, you know, you’re the boss, you’re the editor, which was weird. And and so I ended up editing him a number of times. And then I, and I actually got to know him. I would never claim to be wanting to stand close inner circle.

I was a [00:23:00] colleague. I was a friendly acquaintance, which I think actually it was better for my book than if I had been in his inner circle. But, but actually I’ve worked with him in a number of other companies after I left Marvel. I worked in some other entertainment media companies and worked with him on quite a few projects.

But, you know, I, I would say that I got to know him much more in my Postmortal years and actually when I was there.

Casey: Oh, that’s that’s. That’s cool. And one thing I noticed about your book is it’s not necessarily like a love letter, but it’s very much like, and. I, I don’t know, like I, I wasn’t expecting it to be, but it wasn’t at all written by somebody that, that did not have a deep respect for them.

I mean, you, I can tell that you respected them a whole lot. And just the [00:24:00] amount of work that you put into this book really is kind of staggering, especially considering like all the people you had to talk to to get to it and all of the stuff you had to go through to to do the research. So, that, that, that was one thing that really impressed me.

Stan seems to me kind of like the, the Hugh Hefner of comics in that he took something that on the outset at the time, I’m sure people thought of as very low brow and Gave it an air of class and legitimacy and kind of brought this thing to a new audience and got people excited about it. So, yeah, the question I’m

Danny Fingeroth: rambling.

Sorry. I can, let me, if you don’t mind, let me address some of the things you said. Cause they’re, they’re interesting and important. What I try to do with the book. Cause if you, I mean, you’ve read the book, so, you know, there’s stuff that’s in there. That’s not so complimentary to [00:25:00] Stan. I mean this, you know, he was a complicated guy and I don’t, and there were times he was not aware of how people reacted to him or he, you know, just to have the, his own self interests.

At heart as most of us would in a given situation. So what I try to do, I mean, you’re right. I had a, you know, how do you not have respect for a guy who, who was so instrumental in the culture and, and, and in my own, you know, life and career, but I try to avoid it being a hygiene, geography, you know, most reviewers have said that it’s not, you know, one, I think there are people who stand can do no right for who have used that term.

I try to lay out the things he did and said, and what other people Said about him and leave it to the reader to assess, you know, whether, whether the things he, that he did and said, and, and in, in [00:26:00] various circumstances how they feel about it, you know, I didn’t want to, you know, and I think ultimately, you know, and, you know, by the end of the book, it is true that I admire him and his accomplishments, but I’m not blind mind to some of the serious flaws he had in in how he dealt with his creative partners and how, and, and how he dealt with his own career.

I mean, obviously, and by most objective measurements was very successful and famous, but I think there were a lot of ways in which maybe he was even disappointed in himself. And you know what I mean? I mean, you know, don’t forget, cause this is something it’s funny. People, even very sophisticated people I tell this to are kind of surprised.

Stan did not own any more of Marvel comics and his characters and you were, I do, you know, he was always a highly paid employee and sometimes in danger of [00:27:00] losing his job and anytime a new corporate entity would buy Marvel, the first thing they’ve tried to do is get rid of them you know, maybe Disney didn’t, but everybody up to Disney.

So he, you know, I think there were, you know, and I think that’s why and how he ended up surrounding himself with sort of unsavory people at various points, especially the end of his life. I think he felt that he wasn’t tough enough or savvy enough, and he needed to surround themselves with people who.

Somehow he thought we’re going to be tough on his behalf. And, you know, we’ll do the, you know, do the ruthless nasty things that he felt he couldn’t do. You know? I mean, he was a very complicated person and, and, and and so I tried, you know, to portray that in, in the book with him, you know, and, and look, I, I ultimately what he achieved, you [00:28:00] know, in collaborative, you know, a lot of it in collaboration with great artists, especially Kirby and deco.

But you know what he, the way he put marble on the map and comics on the map, You know, you know, he had that gift for that. And of course the other factor in the equation is is, is the original owner of Marvel Martin Goodman, who was Stan’s distant cousin by marriage, you know, which was both a blessing and a curse for Stan, you know, they had a, they had a complicated relationship so that, that Stan could do this in a way that no other comic book editor of his generation was able to, and I was really I think a unique and, and, and impressive accomplishment.

Casey: Yeah. Yeah. He he seemed to have gotten himself into a position where he was able to have access in and use that access to. You [00:29:00] know, work his way up as, as much as he did. And it’s it was a really fascinating book. Just seeing how low he was on the totem pole is, you know, basically being told like, you know, being looked at by Goodman and saying, what the hell is this guy doing in my office?

Danny Fingeroth: So, you know, look, I mean, the, the thing you have to remember is that probably, you know, I’ll say half is probably an exaggeration, but there, you know, a large percentage as would be true of, of, I think any, you know, immigrant you know, owned and tripping aerial business. Yeah. Stan was far from the only relative of Martin Goodmans, looking at Goodmans comic book or magazine company, you know, they were, I think, ha I think Goodman had like three or four brothers that were working there.

You know, Larry worked there at various times. I just think it [00:30:00] was just what, you know, it was a way that you could, you know, make sure your relatives were employed. Make sure, make sure you had employees you could trust You know, your, your, your, your, your, your, your relatives, wouldn’t be borrowing money from you since they’d be employed by you.

And, you know, they they’d be as, as trustworthy, more trustworthy probably than somebody who wasn’t, but it was, you know, it was not unusual in, in the, in the industry. If you look at, if you look at the history of, you know, DC or Harvey or Archie, they’re all, they’re all these family sagas, you know, they could all be, they could all be like TV maxi series,

Casey: love to see a madman style series about Marvel and DC in the seventies.

Just because, I mean, they, they occupy like, literally like the same city, a lot of characters going, in-between both companies. And

Danny Fingeroth: no, I mean, I many people have. You know, have thought, I mean, especially cause Marvel always [00:31:00] Goodman, for some reason, always wanted to have offices literally on Madison Avenue.

So they were literally in the same building as the mad men type people and Stan, you know, I think in another life, Stan might’ve liked to have been an ed guy. He always said he treated Marvel. Like it was an ad campaign. Yeah. And he did it makes sense. Yeah. It totally did slogans face front hang loose, like my Marvel, you know, and he did a tongue in cheek.

It’s fine. I was just you know, I was, I was recording a panel. You know, for WonderCon, which is gonna be at the end of March, but they wanted their panels done in advance. So I was doing a panel called family, goes to college, and I had found two of the earliest people who had invited, sayin to speak.

It was the two Lanco brothers, Tom and Tim, and they were part of the Mary Marvel marching society that invited Stan to Princeton university. [00:32:00] And that was, that was his second. He talked at Bard college in upstate New York in 64, but the people who invited him there were dead. So I couldn’t get them to be on the panel.

I guess I could get people to imitate them or something. But, but anyway, the two Lancos, you know, they, there’s a famous picture of them in Stan’s office. You know, like four, four or five Princeton students and stand before pre to paste. And now they’re all like drinking you know, sodas out of the paper cups.

And you know, I said, you know, when you guys, as, you know, whatever, nine, 18, 19, 20 year old Princeton students went to talk to Stan about the characters. Was it really on a kind of a straight, serious level? Was it tongue in cheek? And they said I was very much tongue in cheek. I mean, you know, I think there was a side of them that was curious about the stories and the characters, but I think there was this kind of [00:33:00] realization of, you know, well, you know, that Stan has given over an undertone for this stuff that make it interesting to Princeton college students, but in a way that he, he was able to make comics that young kids could take super seriously, but that like college students could, could kind of look at as a tongue in cheek kind of inside joke that they were in on.

And it was kind of a brilliant thing that, that marketing thing that Stan came up with to do that, you know, and it was really, I don’t think anybody. Else, I think that’s the first panel that the two Lanco brothers have ever done and I’m grateful to them. And, you know, I think WonderCon, you know, last year it was free.

So I wasn’t on that. You know, it comes online, check it out. There’s other, you know, Michael use learn and and him Scott Saturn, I also on the panel newsletter of course, is the producer of all the Batman movies. So, [00:34:00] Oh, wow. Do you know who, who Stan helped when Michael was, was teaching one of the, I think the first accredited comics course kind a college in the early seventies.

Do you know what the

Casey: name of that panel

Danny Fingeroth: was? It’s called Stanley. Oh, with the Michael did, or my panel, your panel it’s called Stanley goes to college. Awesome. Awesome.

Casey: Sorry, sorry. I’m putting that in the notes. And that’s for wonder con

Danny Fingeroth: yeah. Which officially is excuse me, March. I think the last weekend in March, I think it’s the 26th and 27.

Awesome. Excuse me.

Casey: When did you know that you wanted to do this book on Stan?

Danny Fingeroth: Huh? That’s, that’s a good, a little bit complicated question.

Casey: It w was it always like, kind of percolating in the back of your mind? Like somebody write a book about this guy or was it just like

Danny Fingeroth: write a book and I, and I’ve written a few books before.

I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Superman on the couch. Right. And [00:35:00] so I’ve been writing books for a while and I wanted to do something that I was passionate about and that would actually, you know, make some money. And Stan just seemed like a natural topic. You know what I mean? Cause through Stan, you know, a.

Who’s a cat. What figure in comics is going to be known to people outside comics. And the only one is family there. I mean, as great as Kirby Ditko, Romita millet as well, maybe, maybe Miller’s known to a general audience a little more, you know, and maybe Robert crumb is, but generally the only comic creator most people would have heard of is Stanley.

You know, especially since the cameo started happening and through, because Stan started in the comic book business in 1940, he was basically there [00:36:00] from the beginning. You know what I mean, Superman? I mean, there were, there were, of course there were comics, you know, newspapers and collections, but you know, the superhero comic was started by soup with Superman in 38 and substain comes into the business two years later.

So through Stan. You tell the story of, of the entire American comic book industry from 1940 til now. So I thought that was a good structure to hang it on. It was somebody that’s well-known enough that a publisher would pay a decent advance for it, you know? And then it started. And honestly, because I a guy I knew who was in the public you know, a veteran of the publishing business said, tell me it’s better to have an authorized biography.

I said, well, why, why, why would that be? I mean, it’s authorized. That means that the subject is going to have approval or disapproval and, and, and, and it’ll make, it’ll make the story less authentic. And, [00:37:00] and he said, well, that’s just the way it is. You know, just there seems to be a correlation in sales. So I tried for a long time to get Stan to make it to be authorized and wrote up an elaborate proposal and send it home.

I had a meeting with him when he was in New York for a convention for the New York comic con. And he considered it longer than I thought he would. And he said to me, Dan, and if I wanted anybody to do it, it would be you, but I don’t want to do it.

Was I the 10th person? He said that to that week. That’s it. That’s what he said. And I said to him, well, look, I understand that, but you know, I’m going to sort of, you know, since you’re, you know, generous enough or foolish enough to return my emails to Stan was like the best email correspondent of all time.

You know, you know, I think every six months or a year, I’m going to kind of gently near you about it then. And and I did, and he, and ultimately he said, [00:38:00] He said, you know, I don’t want to do an authorized one, but not, there’s nothing to stop you from doing an unauthorized one. So if you want to do that, I won’t, you know, go ahead.

Well, so then, you know, my agent was pitching it around and Stan is a tricky character to, to become, because everybody knows right. In the, in the biography racket, right. There are, there’s a million biographies, right. Because there’s a lot of interesting people, but a lot of those biographies don’t sell very many because even interesting people may only have a limited number of people who would cough up money to read about them.

So Stan is in this interesting kind of middle ground. He’s not Steven Spielberg, he’s not Steve jobs, you know? But he, but he is famous in his. So we finally found a home for it and an advance that, that that was good. And And I called Stan. I said, you know, just remember that book I’ve been nagging you about for a few years.

Well, you know, I just signed a deal for it. [00:39:00] And he said to me he said, congratulations, but luck with it. I’m not going to, no, I’m not going to tell people to talk to you or not talk to you, but I’m not going to sit for an interview as I’m sick of being interviewed. It turns out we did two lengthy interviews for the book.

So I don’t, I don’t want to say to the last ones or them, cause they were about a year before he died, but I think they were among the list. And, and by that point I interviewed Stan a lot of times for a lot of different things from my other books for right now magazine, which was a magazine I put off for tomorrows for that Stanley universe book that Roy Thomas and I did.

And in 2011. I didn’t so much interviewing for that. A lot of interviews in the book, but he, I did get him to ride a Stanley, saw 10 tips for writers. But I finally, I think at that point when I was doing the interviews and research for the book, I figured out how to get past stands, programmed, automatic answers about things and get him to [00:40:00] dig a little deeper into topics.

You know, I figured there was no point in, you know, in, in being like you know, getting cross examining, there was no point in going and what about Jack Kirby? You know what I mean? Jack was great, but I think things about his childhood about you know, just as his work life, his family life, his friends, his, his approach to the work and, and this philosophy.

I think I got him to dig deeper. And he might have ordinarily have, so it

Casey: seemed like there was a lot of hurt there, especially in regards to his, his early life.

Danny Fingeroth: I th you know, he’s kind of, yeah, yeah. He had this, you know, I guess he was an only child for the first nine years. So he had sort of that, you know, focused attention that is especially his mother gave him, but I think, you know, I think he had sort of this confidence built in him by his mother who used to who, you know, at one point [00:41:00] sort of indirectly compared him to Franklin Roosevelt, you know, you know, And but you know, so I think combined with sort of this very problematic chronically unemployed or underemployed, and yeah,

Casey: I related to that so

Danny Fingeroth: much and angry father.

So I think Stan kind of in his way, escaped into this fantasy world. Again, I related to that. So a lot of it, I think a lot of people gravitate to comics, so probably you can, you know, there’s so, so yeah, there was a lot of, yeah, a lot of her and I think he, I think he enjoyed a lot of aspects, especially he was always proud of having gone to this high school, the Flint in high school and in the Bronx, which had a lot of famous graduates.

No, I think in Stan’s class, he said he didn’t know him, but in the same graduating class with Stan was the screenwriter and play right. Paddy Chayefsky wrote route. I is most famous for Network. Yeah,

Casey: yeah. [00:42:00] That little tiny movie that nobody’s ever seen or heard of network that

Danny Fingeroth: James Baldwin went to that high school.

And they insure since it was a pretty, you know, it was all these kids, a ton of talent are talented, but, you know, and I think just from sort of the classic kind of New York, a godfather immigrant mix of Italian and Irish and Jewish kids, you know, and it was like, and it was all boys. So the no girls to distract them, you know?

So, so yeah, Stan, I think, I think Stan enjoyed high school and kind of, he was active in a bunch of clubs and, you know, I get the impression, I don’t think he got him out of the house. Well, I think, and I think in his way, he even enjoyed the army because he ended up you know, working in the States doing you know, a morale building or propaganda or information wherever you want to college and stuff, you know?

So he could still actually keep doing scripting for a timely, which is what Marvel was called. And that’s

Casey: one thing [00:43:00] that surprised me. I was totally surprised when, when I found out that he was still doing his stuff for timely as he was in South Carolina.

Danny Fingeroth: Right. He was in South Carolina too. Right. And then, and then Indiana yeah, well, I mean, he was very prolific and, and, and he was a very fast writer, you know?

I mean, he, he, he liked, I think he liked having written more than writing, you know? But he, especially in comics because they had paid so poorly, if you weren’t you couldn’t, you know, you couldn’t make a living because he wasn’t getting. You know, I was in the army, he was not getting his staff editor salary anymore.

You know? So

Casey: what, when you were there just out of curiosity, you know, he kind of came up with the Marvel method for, for writing. And when you wrote for, for Marvel, did you ever employ that or as you go, did you go to script?

Danny Fingeroth: I, well, if the Marvel method that I used and that most people with [00:44:00] Marvel, you know, up until about 20 years ago used was different than the Marvel method that Stan used.

You know, I mean, the thing about the Marvel method, it’s not any one method, you know, what you know, and this of course is where so much of the controversy surrounding Stan stems from Stan would have a story conference that could. Range from two minutes on the phone to a short paragraph, to nothing at all.

Say if Jack Kirby would pretty much plot a story and it varied from issue to issue from, from relationship, you know, from artists to artists you know, say with Jean Colin, I think Jean generally liked and demanded that Stan sit and really do a pretty detailed plot conference. Kirby was more independent and he and [00:45:00] Stan both.

So, I mean, so the Marvel method that Stan used was all over the map and, and change monthly in our, or even daily, depending on who the artist was, the Marvel method that I use. And the most people refer to means instead of writing like a screenplay type script with, you know, page one, panel one, Art description, dialogue, you know, and then you do that for every single town.

It will be more, it would be a story synopsis that could vary depending again, on the team and what the editor demanded. It could range anywhere from one page to 25 pages, you know, depending on how much control the are the writer like to have, how much freedom the artists like to have, you know, but the basic idea was the artists would generally pace the story and, and decide what exactly would be on each page and in each [00:46:00] panel.

And then it would come back to the writer to write the dialogue and the captions. So it’s, I think there was some confusion. You know, out in the world that, that what, what the Marvel method is. So it’s, you know, the, the quickest way to say it is it’s plot first and can certainly stand, you know, and then, and then the thing that made Stan different as well, and that ruffled some feathers, you know, or some people loved working like that.

Stan had multiple roles, he was the editor. So that meant he was their boss, the artists boss, or the tennis artists cope a lot or boss. He was the writer, he was the art director and he was the relative of the owner. So that in effect an effect for better or worse made him, I’m what I call on a tour. You know, I think if you sort of think of a movie director as an old tour from now, the franchise tour [00:47:00] theory, well, it looks then, you know, if Jack Kerr Barbie or Ditko or gene call, and if they brought in.

Page stand in life and he would very, you know, not often, but sometimes let’s say to them, I think the story now that I see the story in front of me, I think it should go in a different direction. So you have to redraw this page. And very often that will be done without pay cause Marvel was not, you know, it was, it was not known for its high rates, not, not in those early days.

So obviously if you, if you’re the artists and you’ve drawn it, you’re not going to be happy about that. And then even if Stan didn’t have redraws done he would very often take the plot in a different direction than the artist had had in mind. And so that, you know, what that led to was very often great comics that as a reader, And as a fan and as a consumer, just, you know, addicted me and, and made me [00:48:00] loyal and want to come back and read every comic Marvel put out.

But if you were Stan’s creative collaborator, maybe you weren’t always so happy with that way of working.

Casey: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve heard stories about Keon Ditko on on their Spiderman books, kind of having differences of opinion about dialogue and stuff like that.

Danny Fingeroth: Right. And, and, and, you know, and, and, and ultimately, you know, ultimately did go left and then a few years later, Kirby left and I think Raleigh would had problems, but there were guys like John , John Romita, Stan Goldberg, gene Cola.

I mean, they, you know, they, they thrived and they understood what the deal was. Okay. If you’re working with Stanley, this is the way the partnership works. You know, and, and, you know, and I mean, it’s funny. I know it seems like damning with faint praise, but [00:49:00] compared to a lot of the other editors in the comics industry, Stan was much treated people much better than a lot of those other, you know, a lot of the other editors in the business were kind of dictatorial and abusive and sadistic and, and, you know, Stan could have his moments where he wasn’t like you know, Mr.

Charming, but generally he, you know, people, people who loved working with him really loved working with him. No. And I, you know, I would say that geniuses like Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby, I don’t think they would have been happy. And history has proven that they weren’t especially happy working with anybody else.

You know, Ditko did a lot of his work for called in comics, which was famous for paying the worst rates in the business, but they let them alone do whatever you want, Steve. And that to him, you know, and it’s a valid choice that was more important than, than if he got $10 a page, more at Marvel or DC, you know?

So, you know, I think those are [00:50:00] unique personalities and unique talents that, that you know, the, the room wasn’t big enough for there, he goes and stands, you know, whereas, whereas like I say, other people obviously thrived in that, in that work environment.

Casey: Do you know, just after. Putting so many hours of, of your time into this book and making it what it is.

Is there a corollary or not a corollary, but like, I don’t know how to put it is, is there anyone in the industry now that, that has that even just an inkling of that, of kind of grip and presence,

Danny Fingeroth: the only person I think comes close is maybe Todd McFarland, no, Todd ultimately wasn’t happy as just the cog and the Marvel machine.

He not only did he drive over the [00:51:00] years, you know, especially once royalties kicked in, in the eighties, a lot of comic writers and artists became, you know, pretty wealthy and. What they spent their money on was, you know, houses, cars, airplanes. I mean, they, you know, they, they, they didn’t plow it. They didn’t invest it in themselves and they didn’t invest in their future.

Which, you know, God was, I don’t say that as a criticism, but that just doesn’t seem to be what they did know. Maybe they bought real estate. So I guess that’s an investment in your future, but Todd, you know, I think was among the first, if not the first to say, okay, I’m popular now. I’m making a lot of money now, but maybe in 10 years I won’t be 20 years.

I won’t be, what do I do? So Todd organized his buddies and they started image comics and, and, and which, you know, everybody knows what a success that [00:52:00] was and still is. And I, and I think Todd has that kind of vision. And he likes, and he’s an extrovert. So he likes being interviewed on TV and, and, and, and, and doing publicity and, you know, buying the Barry bonds baseballs for a million dollars and getting like three times that much worth of publicity out of it.

You know what I mean? So I think, you know, I think, I think Todd might be really the air to being sort of the face and voice of comics if he chooses to take that role on. And I don’t, I don’t know if he’s, you’d have to ask him. I don’t know if he’s you know, if he’s necessarily that interested in, but he’s, he’s the only one that that strikes me as possibly taking over that role.

What do you think, is there anybody that comes to mind for you? You

Casey: know, I, I think Todd might, might just be the closest we have right now because it’s so. I don’t know of [00:53:00] that many personalities that are that much of a a cheerleader for the medium. And with that much, with that much people knowing about them, because people just by what you said earlier, you know, Todd bought the the baseballs and stuff like that, the Madonna bras and all that.

I didn’t, I didn’t know about the Madonna.

There you

Danny Fingeroth: go. I didn’t know. But,

Casey: You know, that put him in the, into the spotlight when you know, the comics wouldn’t, you know,

Danny Fingeroth: and he’s got the toy company, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, in a way he’s much smarter. I mean, you know, again, Stan. You know, for all his fame and whatever wealth he had never owned those characters.

I mean, hard. And the other image guys realized, you know, you know, Eddie, even, you know, we know, you know, of course there’s, you know, kind [00:54:00] of the, the, the classic you know, unfortunate cases of, of seagull and Schuster and they’ll finger. So those are obviously lessons and, you know, and to try to avoid ending, you know, being treated like that.

But, but even Stan who was so famous and so successful in so many ways, even he, you know, let himself be victimized. And, you know, I know it sounds weird to say that about Stan, but in certain ways, he, he, he was a victim of that system as much as anybody.

Casey: Do you think that he he ever got tired of having to put on a face for the public when he was out?

Danny Fingeroth: Just the opposite, just the opposite. You think it energized him? Totally. I mean, I, I mean my classic story, I talk about it in the book, but you know, we, when I, when I was working for wizard, you know, the wizard world convention chain, Stan was a regular guest and I was his regular moderator. And [00:55:00] there was one convention, I think, in Sacramento, in 2013 when Stan was supposed to be there on Saturday.

But he had a bad reaction to a flu shot, which doesn’t mean you shouldn’t get flu shots or COVID shots, people get them. But anyway you had a bad reaction to a flu shot and he was not feeling well. And so they actually brought him in the next day. They brought him in on Sunday and You know, I could see he was tired.

He was, you know, backstage. He was like hanging onto the banister up the stairs, up to the stage. It looked like he was going to collapse and the president of wizard gets up and any, and he says, look, folks, you know, stay. And had that reaction to the flu shot. He wasn’t, you know, he was sick yesterday.

He’s not feeling so great today, but he didn’t want to disappoint you guys. So we sent a plane for him and we brought them up to Sacramento, but he and Danny are only going to do 20 minutes, not the usual 45 or 50. So I hope you understand. And without further ado with any [00:56:00] finger off and Stanley. So, you know, we come up and and I can see Stan, you know, he staggers up the stairs.

He can barely get up the stairs and we get on stage and he see, I can see he’s getting more and more energized. And you know, the wizard people end stands, people are flashing me signs you know, 15 minutes to go 10 minutes, five minutes. And, you know, finally, you know, zero minutes and they, you know, give me the sign, you know, wrap this up.

And I say to Stan so Stan, you know, as John explained to everybody you know, you, you’re not feeling so well, but you didn’t want to disappoint anybody belong to in 20 minutes. So is there anything you want to say to people before we wrap up and Stan says to me, is God talking to you? Did he say we have to stop?

I feel great. Let’s keep going.

Everybody is running around backstage and front stage flashing me size that I’ve no idea what they mean. [00:57:00] And so we did another about 10 minutes and finally, you know, he did agree to leave the stage. And I mean, I, and I’ve seen that. You know, I seen that with elderly or ill people. You’ve mentioned Harvey peacock.

I did that panel with Harvey peacock about a year before he died. I thought he was going to collapse. You know, somebody took a, like a close-up photo of him with a, with a flash ball metaphor, whatever flesh unit. And I thought he was gonna just like faint, you know, cause he was having some health issues even in that.

And we get on stage and Harvey, you know, the minute we’re on stage suddenly he’s like Mr. Energy. So Stan, I’ve seen this happen with Stan many times, not just with me, you know? So when people would say to me in those last you know, in those last months or the last year of his life, is, is there elder abuse going on, should stand be dragged around to all these conventions?

And I said, look, I’m not part of his inner circle. I don’t know. It certainly seems [00:58:00] possible, but you know, all I can say is if you were Stanley. Would you rather die at home alone in bed or in front of a crowd of 10,000 people loving you? You know, I mean, so it’s, I mean, so look, you may be right. I mean, your, your point is well taken.

Maybe, you know, you know, probably certainly for that last year, he shouldn’t have been dragged around, but I gotta tell you when the guy was on stage, I think it was the, the high points of, of his life, his being, being the, being the object of that much love. And even in the, in those last panels, I don’t, I don’t, I never saw him or heard of him embarrassed.

You know? I mean, you hear about those, that famous video of him, you know, like not knowing how to sign his own name. And that’s very tragic obviously, but on those panels, I, I never saw in person or on a YouTube video where he was anything but witty and appropriate, and his memory [00:59:00] was pretty sharp and, and, you know, he really.

Yeah, I think, I think that’s part of what enabled them to go on as long as he did.

Casey: And that makes me feel so much better here in that, just knowing that, you know, he was kind of where he wanted to be and doing what he wanted to do.

Danny Fingeroth: Yeah. Look, I mean, I think it was a mixed bag. I think those that hour he was on stage.

I think he was very happy whether he, you know, whether everything leading up to it and leading up to it, you know, it’s, if you, if you have elderly relatives, you know, or, you know, then, you know, you know that, you know, the conflicts that can bring me, you know, what what’s, what’s right for them and what’s good for them.

What are they in? What are they going to enjoy? Whereas it, you know, whereas it just a matter of somebody, you know, having self-interest, it’s very, was very, very complicated and, and, you know, and, and, and certainly if you read the stories, you know, You know, when he was not a convention that did seem to be a fair amount of elder, but I’d say the only place I [01:00:00] could almost definitely say where there wasn’t, where he was happy.

Was that 45 minutes or an hour when he would be on a stage?

Casey: That’s that’s awesome. I, I want to tell you again, I really, really enjoyed the book, a marvelous life. Y’all need to go out and get it. It, it was really well done and I appreciate all the work you went in that went into doing it. And it really was just a solid book all around that.

I really enjoyed reading it.

Danny Fingeroth: I really appreciate that. Thank you.

Casey: It has been my chill out before bed book for, for the past month and I have two kids, so the time that I have in between putting them to bed and then going to bed myself as is few and far between. So, it is, it has been perfect for you know, just enjoying that little bit of time where I don’t hear a little voice asking me for.

Thank you.

Danny Fingeroth: Thank you so much. Well, I know we’re about to wrap up. I did want to just get in a word about Willa week if [01:01:00] that’s okay. Yeah, yeah.

Casey: Let’s let’s tell me about

Danny Fingeroth: that. Well, you know, I’m sure most of your listeners now realize there wasn’t, it was a contemporary of stands by the way. There’s a great video online called it was from a series of shows that Stan was the house seven 92 called the comic book greats.

And one of them is with will Eisner. And it’s really a terrific dialogue between these old friends. Eisner was one of the inventors of the comics, medium especially with something called the spirit, which was a new in news, a comic newspaper insert in the forties and fifties he’s considered he’s the artist artists, the cartoonist cartoon is the comic writers comic, right.

You know, everybody emulated Eisner. A lot of things we think of as standard comic vocabulary and action adventure, and it was the spirit. And then he kind of. Went into more of educational comics and did a lot of something called PS magazine for the [01:02:00] military. And then in the late seventies kind of reinvented himself in the medium with not the first graphic novel.

I think there’s other claimants to that, but you know, a very, certainly the one of them a thing that put the graphic novel on the map and is really where this entire current literary graphic novel movement stems from where you get things like mouse and fun home. And, and you know, I’m blanking of course, but, you know, a thousand different.

Creative expression. So Eisner started that all with a contract with God, which was you know, a kind of lightly disguised autobiographical and then another 25 graphic novels for the, you know, between 78. And when he passed away in 2005, the Eisner awards that are given at the San Diego County named after him.

So I work with the will Eisner studios and the will and antis and our family foundation to do this thing called will Eisner week will Will’s birthday. It was March 6th. So it’s usually the first [01:03:00] weekend, like March 1st week in March, March 1st through seventh. And we encourage people. At, at schools universities, colleges, libraries, bookstores, comic book shops of museums you know, wherever just to do it would be nice if they do something that’s about will and his work, but also anything about the graphic novel will was a great evangelist for the graphic novel as, as, as a medium for literature, as well as entertainment.

So, and a big advocate for free speech. And so any, any an event that so we’ve grown it from like one event in New York to over a hundred events worldwide, however, this year, because of the COVID people aren’t doing so many live events. So for the first time we have provided prerecorded programming.

About or inspired by, I realize now that said, will eisler.com. W I L L E I S N E r.com. And there’s a link there. If you go to the, if you [01:04:00] go to the homepage on the left side, there’s the will Eisner week 20, 21 playbook, as well as the agenda on the, then them gives you a lot of information. But essentially you can also go that it will also link you to YouTube.

If you go to will Eisner week 20, 20, 20, 21 or maybe even better, we realize nobody’s done with a colon 20, 21. There are seven videos that are, you know, there’s interviews with about will with Todd McFarland, with Jerry Craft know famous for new kid with gene, the one yang versus the Klan and Chinese.

So we have three different interviews with them. We have comic creators. Talk about their favorite Eisner stories with me and Dennis kitchen. Paul Levitz Susan currently who’s teaches comics in Oregon. I want her to other people. We have a great lesson in how to draw the spirit, how to draw the spirit Batman and wonder woman, and actually how to draw Harvey P-Card to [01:05:00] dad.

People may know from lavender Jack, which is a, an online thing he does, but also he did the spirit maxi series for dynamite a few years ago. So we have so, so, and also as a way to rent the Koch brothers Eisner documentary, that’s called portrait of sequential artist. So we really tried that.

So if people, I mean, obviously you can watch the stuff and you can even download it if you know how in your own home, but it’s also. If you’re, if you’re a venue or an institution and maybe you ordinarily do will Eisner week, but you can too. Now you can brand this stuff to, you know, either in person, if you’re in a place that can do that or through your own internet portal, you know, we really wanted to make people be able to, you know, give them the way to celebrate will Eisner week and all sorts of different options in this very difficult year.

Casey: That’s awesome. And yeah, I actually looked up the the [01:06:00] hashtag will Eisner week and there’s a ton of people posting about it already. There’s a ton of libraries. They’re helping to celebrate this with links to

Danny Fingeroth: The Facebook will Eisner week page has a, has a li it lists all of the, and I scroll, you have to do a lot of scrolling, but it lists a lot of the events that are happening.

I’m sorry.

Casey: That’s awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So you guys go out and look out for a will as our week. Additionally pick up a marvelous life by Danny finger off it’s, it’s such a good book. And, and now I really want to read some of your other titles that you’ve done. The the rough guide to graphic novels disguise this Clark Kent Superman on the couch.

I’ve I’ve really heard a lot of good things about those books and I think they’re next on my before collapsing into a deep dark sleep at the end of the day, because I wake up at four and don’t go to bed till 12.

Danny Fingeroth: So I don’t know if I’ve been that extreme, but I’ve had kids. So I know. And the tradition of Stan, just to plug one more thing.

Of course, if anybody [01:07:00] is curious about the comics editing workshop on comics, plex.com, please check that out. And that’s

Casey: C O M I X P L E x.com. So, and scroll down a little bit and you will see Denny finger Ross, beautiful face along with a link to the program. So D Danny, thank you so much, man.

It’s been a pleasure talking to you and I feel like I could have talked about so much more and kind of.

Danny Fingeroth: I’d be happy to come back sometime

Casey: I would love it. So, we, because you you’ve been around in comics to see so much over in, in just this little bit that we talked about tonight specifically a marvelous life, the amazing story of Stanley, anything rough that that that’s just a tiny footnote of all the rest of the stuff you’ve done in comics.

So, Danny, thank you so much for talking

Danny Fingeroth: one more, one more plug. One of them are [01:08:00] dark story and twenty-five years, me and Mike Manley doing Darko. There’ll be out from Marvel in April. So, you’re shitting me. That is awesome. Yeah.

Casey: And that’s, that’s something you created.

Danny Fingeroth: Well, Mike and Tom to Falco creative, but I wrote it from the very first issue.

So a lot of what you think of is dark. It comes from me, but I got to give credit to Tom for coming up with a bit with initial basic premise for the, for the character. And there’s so

Casey: much cool. Cause I went on a deep dive, not long ago. Reading about that character and he he took some crazy crazy turns and it’s, I’m going to be looking out for that.

What’s the name of the book again?

Danny Fingeroth: I think it’s, this is one it’s called dark Hawk, heart of the Hawk, dark

Casey: Hawk, heart of the

Danny Fingeroth: hop. Awesome. That’s sometime in April, I just actually finished. Right. We did it Marvel style, the Marvel method, and I just finished writing the script today.

Casey: I can’t wait to read that book, dark Hawk, heart of the Hawk.

And [01:09:00] you guys keep your eyes peeled for it. Dark Hawk is a, one of the nineties characters from Marvel that actually had staying power. Cause there’s so many random characters that came up during that time. And they were very tied to that time. The dark Hawk is such a cool concept of a character, and I’m glad that that he’s getting people are going to get another

Danny Fingeroth: look at him.

No, thank you. Thank you. All right. So we better before I think of something else to plug we better,

Casey: Danny. Enjoy your evening. Thank you so much, Mr. Finger off. Thank

Danny Fingeroth: you case. It’s been a pleasure. Alright, goodbye. Bye. Okay, so I’m going to, I’m going to leave the thing now. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. Thanks a lot, Casey.

My pleasure to be well. Same to you.