Fabian Nicieza - Juggernaut! Ren & Stimpy! Psi Force! And a thing called Deadpool!

Have you ever wanted to learn about Argentinian immigration? Well look no further on this episode of Nicieza tells you how it is!

We sit down and talk with Fabian Nicieza about his life, his work, and we sprinkle in a little Deadpool and X-Men/X-Force at the end. This is a REALLY good episode, so listen to the whole thing!

Find Fabian online:
https://twitter.com/FabianNicieza

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Fabian

[00:00:00] John: Nope.
Kenric: That was crazy.
John: Join the cult or this, whatever, and we'll come back. I'm Johnny. That's mr Regan. Okay. And today on the
Kenric: right now.
John: and what you're still, what,
Kenric: I'm so lost right now. I was like full on getting ready to start, and then you were like, I was like, Oh, that
John: it back.
Kenric: took it.
John: So, well, how about this? I did that. Why don't you tell everybody who we talked to today?
Kenric: Well today on the show, we have a
John: So professional.
Kenric: Yeah. Is it Fabian to Chessa and he was awesome. He's actually a ton of fun to talk with. He is a course. You guys know his work because everybody listening to this podcast loves Deadpool. Right? Right.
[00:01:00] John: yeah, yeah,
Kenric: Right. So if you love Deadpool, you can thank Fabian for that because he's the creator of Deadpool.
John: he is. He is. He also wrote a ton of ECS books back in the day. He wrote a ton of stuff. He's written novels now, and he's got books signed out. I mean, it's his career path and what he's done is, is pretty insane.
Kenric: it is. It's really insane actually. And matter of fact, why don't we just sit back and listen to Fabian in his own words? [00:02:00]

Kenric: All right, guys. We are back and today we're [00:17:00] lucky enough to have the creator of Deadpool joining us and what you did, shatter star and quite a few characters really over at Marvel, Fabian DCS. Uh, thank you for coming on.
Fabian: My pleasure guys, how are you doing?
Kenric: doing well, doing well.
Fabian: This is a writer's dream to be hunkered down and have to and have a chance to work, and that's the one positive of a freelance writer. Like I can get paid to work from home. Like, you know, it's like I can keep doing what I do and like that's like normal operation for us.
Kenric: That's awesome. I mean, what, what are you doing here then?
Fabian: Well, I worked, I worked already for the day. I made this commitment months ago. Right? So I feel obliged to fulfill my professional responsibilities.
Kenric: Oh, well, we love you for it. We very much appreciate it. Hey, I, so we can talk about Deadpool and we can talk about all that, but [00:18:00] I'm sure you get those questions
Fabian: I have never, I've never been asked a single question about, you know, Deadpool or the X men. So yeah, by all means, let's do three hours on that.
Kenric: Exactly. I feel like we would not be doing our due diligence if we didn't touch on it for a little bit. For the people that tune in that are, you know, the fan boys.
Fabian: skirt the fan boys. Screw the people.
Kenric: I love you already. This is awesome.
Fabian: I'm done. I'm done. Pleasing an audience. I want to point out where I just want to write for myself and it, and ever since I started thinking that way, I started selling more stuff. So go.
Kenric: Just because people, people love honesty and truth, you know what I mean? And they see it in people's writings, I think,
Fabian: Maybe the latter, but I don't know if the former apply. I've rarely met many editors in the column. Like honesty.
Kenric: Oh my God. Hey, you started, [00:19:00] you worked at Marvel before, you're even a writer, and I'm curious, what did you do there and how did you get your job?
Fabian: Um, I got my job the way that most people get their jobs in New York city. Um, a friend of a friend who had a sister working at Marvel who was looking to hire an assistant and she worked in the manufacturing department at Marvel, and I was working at Berkeley publishing, which is a paperback book publisher.
My first job out of college. And I interviewed for the job and I got it. And having zero, zero interest in being in manufacturing, uh, which for her, for her responsibilities, that meant, um, all the Marvel book, all of Marvel books, which was not trade paperbacks and hardcovers back then it was actually. A line of Fisher price books that had coloring books and sticker books and activity books.
It was all part of Marvel secret. Desperate attempts to not be a comic book publisher in the mid eighties so [00:20:00] that the president of the company could, that could have Brandy at his social club and not feel embarrassed that he was a comic book publisher. Um, and I did not want to do that. The only touchstone that my job had.
So Marvel comics was the press posters that Marvel used to do four posters a quarter. They released and they were really, really nice, great looking, full color at 22 by 32 posters. Great art. Either Reaper, either either covers that were really striking like my execs, Punisher number one or original art.
Uh, like the Mobius pro press posters that were done back then. And my job was to get them between, between Marvel's production department, editorial department and, uh, the, the printers and the sub color separators. Um, it's not what I went to college for. It's not what I had an interest in, but I wanted to get my foot in the door at Marvel.
Um, I, I interviewed at both Marvel and DC out of college. Uh, but I didn't get either job because I didn't have [00:21:00] the experience they were looking for. Um, and that ties into the story of once I got the job at Marvel after four months, the guy who got hired stead of me in 1983 was looking to hire an assistant.
And I talked to him about it. And he did agree. He decided to hire me as his assistant. Um. So I left my, the job that I've gotten after four months, I basically stabbed the woman in the back who hired me. Um, and I moved over to the promotions and publicity department cause that's what I wanted to be doing.
Cause that's what I went to college for. Um, advertising, advertising and public relations and communications. The guy hiring me didn't know that he was getting someone hired above him. Who was going to come in as a vice president or a director. I don't remember what his title was at the beginning, and he was going to basically be entrusted to start a department that was going to be in service of promoting and publicity and promotion, publicity, [00:22:00] advertising of Marvel comics.
And as a result, we had a three person department, like all or within a few weeks of me starting in that department. And then after about 10 months, he decided that, um, the guy who hired me, Steve, his responsibilities would be promotion manager. He did all the conventions, all the, all the, um, all the direct market press, all the magazine interview setups, all that stuff like, like comics, interview comics, readers, comics journal.
Um, there was a comic shop news started a little soon after that. There was a whole bunch of stuff back then, comic buyer's guide. So his job was to handle all that, um, reviews, publicity interviews. Articles, whatever I had, my job was to be Marvel's advertising manager. I was responsible for all of Marvel's house sets, promotional posters to the direct market, sell sheets, uh, co op ads for the, for the direct market retailers.
Um, a [00:23:00] whole bunch of stuff, promotional giveaways in stores and for conventions. All that is all. That is what I did. Um, yeah. So I basically did, did that job for almost five years at Marvel on, on staff full time before I moved over to editorial. Um, I did that job and I loved that job actually, so much to this day.
It's my favorite job I ever had.
Kenric: with promotions.
Fabian: No promotions. Editorial sucked. Um, promotions was great. I loved it. It was a great job. I got, I got my fingers in the pie of every single department in the company. I got to know everyone in the company. I got to work on all different kinds of things, not just comic book stuff.
I got to work on trade shows and presentations and licensing and international publishing and everything. I also. I also, they also learned that I was capable of holding a microphone in my hand and talking about comics to dozens or thousands of people at the same time. So I started doing marvels promotional presentations [00:24:00] at distributor meetings, licensing, trade shows, convention panels, everything.
I was basically, I basically became the MC for a lot of those things. Um, which again, was great for me because it exposed me to a pretty, pretty large, wide variety of, uh, of the business in a pretty positive way. So, uh, that's the one, one of the many reasons I love that job was, was that, uh, I got to learn every, almost every facet of the company's operations.
Uh, when you're an editorial and you're making comics. You tend to be a little myopic and you really only know for the most part, um, the process of getting a comic book mate. You don't necessarily, but understanding what happens to that comic book once it leaves the office, you know,
Kenric: you went from this wide amount of exposure and Marvel. Then you get into editorial and it must've felt like you were just confined in a box.
Fabian: No, not really. I've got to be honest with you, because they gave me all of Marvel's licensed books, so I had to, I [00:25:00] had, it's nice in that you're, you're. You're again, flex in different business muscles, but it sucks. They're always harder to do. They're much more time consuming, or they're depending on the license or they're a pain in the ass.
So I was doing Ren and Stimpy. I started with Alf, and then I did run in Stimpy and Barbie, and then William Shatner's tech war and a bunch of other stuff. Um, and so I was editing a lot of that. I edited it. A mainstream superhero book, which was wonder, man. I edited, um, uh, another book that I started, which was hell storm.
Um, but for the most part, I was more of as licensing manager. And part of that was because I had an ability to speak to business people about the process of making comics. So I was able to go out to Los Angeles and have a meeting, a two, three day meeting, and the seminar teaching the Mattel licensing people.
Why we can't just use there. 12 black and white style guide fixtures as all of our [00:26:00] panels and all of our comics that we're doing. Um, and why Barbie has to talk and her story, um, things like that. So, so I got to, I got to do that. Um, but it tell it was great cause I got to do that twice in one year since they fired the entire licensing department.
I first, uh, did presentations to, um, and I learned that, I learned that. Fast the real fast and hard way that licensing is an absolutely cut throat business. I don't want to be a part of, because they would just decimate entire departments a year at a time. If they didn't meet the numbers that they were projecting or whatever, they would just, I'd be working with a group of like six people and all of them would be fired within a week, and I'd have six brand new people I'd have to deal with, you know?
Yeah. So it always made it pretty interesting. And, and not, not, not coincidentally, the licensed comics that were stronger. We're the ones that had a more consistent licensing department liaison. So running Stimpy had the same woman. She was great. Susan, who's in the, actually was a young woman and she had, she was a lot of fun and [00:27:00] she got what we were doing.
So she was with us for years on running snippy. So that kind of thing worked out well.
Kenric: I can't believe how Oldman's Tempe is. It feels like it was
Fabian: does snip has been around since the early nineties? It's been around since like 92 I think.
Kenric: But you did some writing in between that, right? Cause didn't you work on PSI fours?
Fabian: Uh, I, I started writing, I sold my first story to Marvel in 86, late 86 and it was published in 87, and that was Cy forest, which was, um, a new
Kenric: he always said PSI for us when I was
Fabian: Yeah. I don't, yeah, cause you're looking at pounds per square inch, and that's just honestly a really stupid way to look at it. Okay. It's PSI, it's sign, meaning powers of the
John: Come on, man, you
Fabian: you're a comic book reader and you don't know sign
Kenric: Yeah. Hey, Hey,
Fabian: Um,
Kenric: Let's just move on. Anyways,
Fabian: um, anyways, a little bit moving right along. Yes. I, I, uh. I inventory store inventory stories were, were complete issues that had to sit in a drawer until the [00:28:00] schedule in a wall and an editor needed a completed story to run. So the new universe books sold her such a horrific shape scheduling wise right from the get go.
That they started needing fillings real quick, and so many people didn't want to work on those books, that they were desperate enough to ask the advertising managers. He was walking through the hallway. Uh, Bob budiansky was the editor and he goes, you want her to write it? You don't go. Well, yeah, I want to write on planning too.
I sold the story to Jim Owsley, who was the Spiderman editor. It's fine, but, but he got fired before it ever got finished. Um, so, but, but I said, but I'm just taking my time. He goes, what would you, would you like to pitch some ideas for side for us? And I said, sure. So I pitched them 10 ideas the next day. I had to read the first three issues first, cause that's all that had come out at that point.
And I pitched them. I pitched them a bunch of, um, inventory, story ideas, 10 different pitches. And the next day comes up holding the sheet of paper and saying, cause my, my, my desk was upstairs on 11 and editorials on 10. Um, he comes upstairs, it's like [00:29:00] six o'clock at night. I see him walking down the hall at the paper.
I'm thinking, Oh crap. Oh crap. Oh crap. Oh crap. And he says, I'd like to do this one first. And when those, when that word first came out of his mouth, that's when I actually knew that I was gonna I was going to get to. Get to write for the company, um, because that meant he liked more than one of my ideas.
And, and that was boom. So I sold the, another inventory real quick. Is that under start hearing from each other? Who's, who's selling what? And then the same for cider, but what he enslaved. And asked me to write another one and then shoot her how to cancel half the lines. So we consolidated the line from eight titles, the four titles, and he named me the writer of force as a monthly writer after just three inventory stories, um, and assign the four books to a different editor, Howard Mackie, who wasn't thrilled that he was inheriting and creative teams that he didn't have any saying much less.
A brand new writer like me. Um, and, and at first, our relationship was a little [00:30:00] wary because of that, but then we, we, we started to get along great. And he saw that I could write and that night, and I, and I was really comfortable with them, so, so we became super good friends. But, um, but at first it was a little, a little weird.
Kenric: That's, that's crazy.
Fabian: then the,
Kenric: were you a writer before all that though? Did you write stories like on your own, have short stories or did you just have a love of comics.
Fabian: know I've been writing, I've had a love of comics and stuff. I was like six years old, but I've been writing. Since I was a kid, I never, I never didn't draw or write. Um, and then, and then in high school, um, I started to take my writing in a different direction from my art.
I still drew and I still drew comic book pages, but that was, I was realizing more and more. It wasn't because I wanted to draw. It was because I was finding a way to tell my stories. Right. So then I started. Like summer between freshman year and sophomore year in high school, I wrote a book, uh, on loose leaf paper with pencil.
I [00:31:00] slipped, definitely. It was 400. It was 420 pages total. I'm like front and back. 200, 210 pages front and back on loose leaf paper and a spiral bound note, a spiral binder, a three ring spiral binder. And I wrote, I wrote a book that summer. And then in sophomore year, my, uh. My English teacher, who was also my JV VAR and my JV soccer coach, uh, uh, gave him the creative writing assignment.
That's one of the things that had to be done over the winter break. Um, and I asked him if I could just submit this, cause I've written it over the summer and he looked at it and he looked at me like I was out of my F mind. Then he goes. Yeah, you can submit this, like, okay, so I didn't have to write anything over the thing.
Then I wrote something over the winter break anyway, and I said, can I submit this to when he goes, instead? I go, no, I just did this over the break and it was like a 40 phase Lavelle. I did over the winter break. So I, I just started writing.
Kenric: That's
Fabian: Because I loved, I loved writing and I never stopped. So I always wanted to be a writer.
I [00:32:00] also understood that it was a business and a profession, and you don't go to college to be a writer and you don't look at, um, classified ads in the newspaper back in 1983 when you get out of college and expect to find the classified ad that says hiring writers or writers wanted a novelist for hire.
You know. It doesn't
Kenric: pay you to write your novel.
Fabian: yeah, you have to, you have to find the job in a field that gives you the opportunity to learn, to meet people, to make contacts, and to get a chance to sell your writing. So I ended up getting a job at Berkeley publishing. I tried Marvel and DC first, but I got a job at Berkeley publishing and my goal was, okay, I'm here.
I want to, I can write Bob, try to write books, I want to write books. Um, after, after a little while, I started to get to know the editors better and I started to get a sense of what, what some might be looking for. And they had a bunch of monthly series books that they did, two westerns and a spy. But the series, um.
[00:33:00] Long arm gunsmith and Nick Carter were the three, and they hired multiple writers to write those under a pseudonym, and it didn't pay much. It was like 500 bucks a manuscript. Uh, and the manuscripts were about, uh, 200 pages, 200, 10 pages long. Um, and I said to myself, this is how I'm going to break in. I'll write some of these crappy series books they do.
I'll write slightly less crappier manuscripts, and that'll give me the chance to show the editors that I'm professional, that I can string words together, that I can tell a story, but I can meet my deadlines, all of that stuff. And then I'll get a chance to try to pitch some of these editors on book ideas I have.
Um, and that was my, my plan and my goal. I was, I was actually about three weeks away. From approach you, the two different editors about their two series books. Um, and that's when I found out about the job opportunity in Marvel. Um, so I didn't do that. I, I didn't, I and I, [00:34:00] anytime I started writing pros after that later, I always was disappointed in it and never followed through on it.
Uh, partially because I've become, I've become so accustomed to writing in the comic book format. And the comment was style for, um, and I was earning a living doing it so. Trying to write a book when there's no income coming in for it is kind of problematic. You know? It's really time consuming, and if you're not, if you're not cashing a check for it, it's not buying any bananas.
So you gotta really, you gotta really juggle in a way, the decision making for yourself between, gee, I'd love to write this, or I'd love to try to write this, versus, gee, I have to write this because I got to pay my mortgage. You know?
Kenric: right, right. When you, uh, you immigrated to America at the age of three with your parents from Argentina. Did you feel a lot of weight being [00:35:00] the son of immigrants because everybody I know that that has immigrated from another country are such hard workers. I mean, they make, like, they make a lot of people I know, you know, embarrassingly lazy, you know what I mean by the, the, the work that they put in and the expectations they've put on their kids.
Fabian: Um, yeah, no, no. In a different way. Um, no, no, because a lot of the immigrants who come here. Tend to come from poverty. Um, and, and they tend to have that hard work ethic because they still attain more here than they ever had there. Um, my dad was, my dad was a college graduate and he was, uh, he was, uh, by, by like training.
He was, uh, uh. Chemical engineer. Um, but he started his own factory in Argentina making, um, these really gorgeous bone China statues, and, and it didn't [00:36:00] succeed. So he got all Argentinian dramatic and said, if my dreams can come true here, I will go somewhere where my dreams can come. True. Um, so, so he came to this country and he was, um.
He was a, he became an engineer as a, but mostly as a director of, um, methods and standards for assembly lines. Um, cause he had a really keen, analytical, mathematical mind. Um, so, and he worked for a lot of toy companies in his career too, which was always fun for us as kids.
Kenric: He'd bring home
Fabian: but my dad was also very creative, you know, was a sculptor.
He did a lot of work in clay. He created some beautiful clay stuff. He used to paint. He painted. Clowns, only clowns. That was his only thing. He only did clients until much later in life. Um, so he always, and he always, he never necessarily liked the comic books. He didn't really care about the comic books, but he never discouraged our love of art.
Um, my mom is a very practical, very, very. Very, uh, [00:37:00] uh, basic, you know, hardworking, lower class, um, uh, not as educated woman. And I got, I think I got my work ethic from her and I think I got my, my way of looking at things from my father. You know? So it was a good combination because I hope I got the best of both of them and less of the worst of both of them.
Uh, but, but I know my work ethic comes from my mom cause my dad didn't have a tremendous work ethic because of too much of his work was in his own head. You know what I mean? A lot of what he did was in his own head. Um, so he wasn't a hard worker. He wouldn't come home from work and on weekends want to build a, you know, build a fence.
You know what I mean? It wasn't what he had an interest in, but, but he was working so much in his own head that I. I, I kinda understand that. Appreciate that since I became a writer, because so much of what you're doing is happening internally, not externally. So the typing time is nowhere [00:38:00] near the amount of time I'm working.
So even to this day, I'll have, you know, you know, my kids will walk down stairs and my wife will walk and I'm fiddling on my phone with a game and. Yeah, I'm not really even playing the game, you know what I mean? I'm thinking about something from a story standpoint or from a character standpoint. The game is just the distraction from the keyboard, you know, cause I'm not, I'm not a big fan of staring at the, at the screen in order to get inspiration.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, so, um. So, so I got a little bit of that. It's not necessarily the typical immigrant experience in that regard. Um, but, but I drew from both of them. Um, my dad, my dad was raised, I would consider it middle class by Argentina's standards. Um, his dad was a barber and owned his own barber shop.
Um, and, and his dad, my grandfather had gone to Argentina when he was 13 years old, is in Spain, is his, my great grandfather who I never met. [00:39:00] Put both of his sons on two different boats to get them away from Spain because the Spanish civil war was going on at
Kenric: Oh, wow.
Fabian: So I think the two brothers are like 13 and 15.
My grandfather was younger and he put them on two different boats, one Argentina and one that were acquired. And then they went off and they lived their lives without family or anything happened. So my grandfather got a job at a barber shop and ended up owning the barber shop eventually, you know? Um, so.
My dad lived a middle
Kenric: that's incredible.
Fabian: My grandfather on my mother's side was a house painter and she was born in like 1929 so she grew up, I would consider it lower class in terms of financial, uh, income that she grew up lower class. My dad grew up middle class. They were, they grew up in two different parts of Argentina.
Um, my dad grew up in a very middle class neighborhood. Um, and my mom a little, a little less so. Um, so, so I, but I grew up my entire life firmly, squarely in the middle class here in this country. You know, it, it, you know, my dad never earned a [00:40:00] tremendous amount of money. We, I was, I lived in an apartment building until the apartment complex until I was in sixth grade.
That's when my parents bought a house. Um, so we moved to the house when I was in the middle of sixth grade. Um, so, so I, I definitely have a, uh, a little bit of a, uh, uh, you know. By the, by the Scruff of your pants mentality. Um, and, and the immigrant experience also influences you on that. You, you, you become very aware of how others perceive you.
Uh, you know, the guy with the funny name, the guy, the guy who, you know, whose parents don't speak English well, and you know, the, the guy who lives in the apartment complex, when all his school friends live in the housing complex, uh, in the houses across the road, you know, that kind of thing. You get a real sense of that.
There was never any of them. There was never any overt, you know, you know, name calling or go back to Argentina stupidness or there was never any other thing like that, but there were birthday parties I didn't get invited to, [00:41:00] which I knew. I knew that I wasn't being invited to them. Uh, that there was mothers who, you know, would say, you know, do your parents speak English?
Now they do, but not very well. Oh, well, your English is good. Well, I started school here. That's why my English is good. I, I, I don't remember first grades of this day because it's, one of my brain was transitioning from Spanish to English. Um, but I never got left back. My brother and I both started school here and we both kept going.
He's three years older than me. He was seven and he never got left back. So it must've been some pretty intensive brains stuff happening that, that. You know, from probably mid sixties, mid 66 until mid 67, uh, there had been some serious brain adjusting going on because I do remember by the time we moved to New Jersey from, from New York and summer of 1968 I started school that September and I was speaking and reading and writing fluent English.
So I don't know how it happened. I just know that [00:42:00] it did happen. Um, but because I was, I was speaking. Normal fluid English for that whole time, you know, from that time on. Um, but I don't remember the learning process cause I was only five years old when it was
Kenric: kids that age, man, they pick up second language is so easy
Fabian: Yeah, they really do.
Kenric: know, I mean, like my, so my ex wife was from Brazil and we introduced my brother. To his current wife, Walter, is why I shouldn't say his current wife, because that makes it sound like they're going to get divorced, but
Fabian: Just hedging your bets,
Kenric: I'm hedging my bets.
Fabian: just in
Kenric: You know, 2080, 2080 no, he,
John: so the episode age as well. It's all
Fabian: I'd like it. I'd like you to meet as next life, but she's only in fourth grade right now, so what are you going to do? It wouldn't, might not be appropriate.
Kenric: Maybe appropriate. Here's the hot tub time machine when
Fabian: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kenric: But, um, [00:43:00] his kids, they speak English. I mean, that's what they talk in the house and uh, and everything. But she speaks Portuguese to them. He speaks English to them, they go to school, but they don't have any problems going back and forth between the two languages.
Fabian: Yeah. Well, I, uh, my house sold by the time we, my brother and I were in high school. We were speaking English to our parents because we thought they weren't learning. English fast enough or as well as they should. Um, and they were speaking Spanish to us in the house so that it was back and forth that way all the time.
And I stopped speaking Spanish every day. By the time I went to college, so I was 18 years old and I stopped speaking Spanish every day. And I've never spoken Spanish every day since then. You know? Um, and even even to this day, like I was just in Mexico city a week ago for the lot Lake convention, and the first day is a struggle for me to speak Spanish because I'm trying to translate from English to Spanish in my brain.
But I left on Monday. So by [00:44:00] Sunday night I'm speaking much. More and more, I'm much more ease with much more ease, a lot less hesitation. Uh, and I know that I've, I stayed there and spoke Spanish every day for a month. I'd be totally fine. I just don't get that opportunity anymore. So Spanish is all in my brain.
I just don't get to use it often enough. And, and the older you get that does it. It's like anything, it's like a muscle. It really is. It starts to atrophy if you don't use it regularly. So, so speaking it every day. You know, I can't, I, the only way I could do it here is if I wanted us say stuff to my kids.
And my wife said I didn't want them to understand. That's the only way I could do it here. Um, and I've learned a valuable lesson in life is just don't say anything at all, rather than play games like that. So I just won't say anything to them at
Kenric: yeah. My ex, my ex, she, uh, she worked really hard to learn English. Right. And she went to the point of not hanging out with other Brazilians. Uh, because she didn't [00:45:00] want to get stuck speaking only Portuguese everyday. She wanted to speak English every day. And if you talk to her on the phone, you can't really tell.
You can, you can hear a hint of an accent, but not, you know, it's much more pronounced when you're face to face and she gets excited. But other than that, um, she said, yeah. After about four years of being in America, she stopped dreaming in Portuguese and, and dreaming in English. And then that's when everything switched for her.
Fabian: yeah, and for me it was thinking in the language rather than, than anything else. And the dreaming is interesting. I don't recall ever dreaming in Spanish. It's too young. Um, but, but my parents and my mom was 40. She had me late, so she had me and my brother late. She was 38 when she had my brother.
She was 41 when she had me. We came here when I was four and a half, so my mom was 45 almost 46 when she came to this country and she passed away at 97 she never lost her accent. She never learned English fluently completely. She [00:46:00] always had an accent. She, it wasn't because of the, it's too many ingrained years.
Of of, of one language before you could change otherwise. So you enough about enough about my, my, my immigration
Kenric: It's super interesting though. I read, I read
Fabian: and I gotta be honest from a writing standpoint, guys who came in super handy because I just sold my first novel at the end of last year and, and a lot of it, thanks. A lot of it is, um, a lot of it is about.
Um, the, the changing, uh, cultural identities in, in suburbia. Uh, I wrote, it's, um, it's a, I call it a sarcastic suburban mystery, but it's based in my hometown and my, uh, not till, not till 20, 21.
Kenric: Oh my God, you need to come back on and promote it when it gets out, because
Fabian: sounds like a plan. Yeah. I, I,
Kenric: to, I, I'm super interested.
Fabian: I signed them. I signed a two book deal with Putnam publishing.
Ironically enough, they were the original [00:47:00] hardcover parent company of Berkeley publishing, which is a company I worked for in 1983. And, uh, and if it goes, if it goes, if it goes paperback at a platinum, the editor of. The editor, the senior editor, there may be a guy I worked with back in 1984. Um, it was, it was like a year younger than me.
You got hired a year after I started working at Berkeley and it was a really nice guy. I liked that. We got along good and he was a good guy. Now he's the senior executive editor there. Um, so anyway, I sold the book and it's a suburban mystery set in my hometown and my hometown is now about 60% Asian.
And in night and the early nineties, it was probably about. 20%, 30% Asian. So there's been a real, a real steady change and rollover of cultural identity. And I liked, I liked the idea of setting it in, in my hometown because I had a lot going on here underneath the layers, you know, underneath the banality of suburban existence.
There was a lot of stuff percolating here that [00:48:00] I could have fun with. Um, so if an Indian. Gas station attendant gets killed and are the white police officers doing enough to stop it and stuff like that. So, um, so I was able to apply a lot of. Subconscious stuff to it. And the people who have read it and the editors who, who read it and were discussing it with me, all of them saw that in it.
Cause they were very curious about my background because they didn't understand how a comic book writer. Who's 58 years old could be writing about four or five different ethnic groups and touch on each of them in a slightly different way, and I realized that it wasn't anything super, super superbly planned or anything like that.
All of that that was coming out of me was my ability to recognize and understand how they. How they, how they think they're being perceived by others. Because I also would [00:49:00] look and see how I thought I was being perceived by others, you know? Um, and, and I had like a cultural, cultural diversity group of readers.
I picked like 10 local readers to read it and get back to me and make sure I got cultural references right. For the and families and for the Asian families. Every, not a single one of them has come back with. I got anything wrong, not a single one.
Kenric: That's awesome.
Fabian: and I was pretty glad about that because it wasn't like, it wasn't like I was,
Kenric: It's a, it's a fine
Fabian: research or anything.
Yeah. It is a fine
Kenric: Especially when you're writing against cultures that you're not a part of. I mean, cause you'll see that backlash all the time, you know?
Fabian: Yeah. All of it's based on observation. All of it's based on observation, conversation. Because I coach my kids' soccer teams for so long, I got to interact with a wide variety of parents and kids and students, you know? Um, and my is one of my son's best friends is an Indian. Girl. And they've been, they've all, they've been best friends since middle [00:50:00] school, so she's here all the time.
She's like almost a part of the family in that regard. So you hear her talk in a super sarcastic American way about her own family's Indianness, you know, and she was born in this country. Her brother was born in India, but she was born in this country, you know. Um, so, so she is, her attitude and her approach is a little bit
Kenric: she's been infected.
Fabian: Yeah. Well, you got to start thinking about it generationally too, because most of the kids have been born here and they have a different view from their parents who might've immigrated here and then nineties or whatever, you know, but, but now I'm writing about characters who are much younger than me.
I'm 58 I'm writing my two week cards. You're 33 and 29. You know, that means that they were born in the late eighties early nineties you know what I mean? So by that time, I was already writing columns from Marvel. So you have to, you have to put yourself in their shoes, not in your shoes, just apply some of your, your opinions, personalities, observations to them.
But always [00:51:00] within the context that, you know, I'm writing a 29 year old guy's different. He's in a different point of his life than I was. I'm writing a 33 year old pregnant woman. She's in a very different place in her life than I was, but when my wife was 33 and pregnant, I was just, you know, 35 and running a clinic comics, and she was pregnant with our second kid.
So I get a fundamental understanding of that, you know? Um, so, so it was a lot of fun. It was, it was incredibly rewarding to after. After so many years of doing the different things I've done to just make a decision that I'm going to try to write a book and let's see if I could sell it for a few shekels.
I told my wife all along, we're not going to make any money off this. Um, so I just need to do it. And she said, okay. Because I'd had a couple of really good years and around, so I was going to get her. I was going to get a year a year, 2018 was my year to not have to worry as much about making money, even though my, my.
My youngest is still in college, almost finishing up in college. And it turns out that, you know, the book has five [00:52:00] publishers bidding on it. It went to auction. Between then between three publishers are kept upping the ante yet, and then it turned into a two book deal
Kenric: What goes through your head when they, when,
Fabian: they had.
Um,
Kenric: does your manager come back and says, Hey, we've got people bidding on it.
Fabian: My agent yet my agent said that we, once we got the second offer, he knew that he was going to chart and be able to turn it into an auction because that he went to the other editors and said, listen, you go, you got to make a decision soon. You've had it for three days, now you better, you better get in on this because other people are getting in on it.
So what happens is that some people get in on it just because they don't want to lose out on something. Um, not necessarily because they're really believing in it or passionate about it. Ultimately, the ones who are most passionate about are the ones who put the most money up for and stick with it. Um, and that ended up being Putnam and st Martin's, the two companies really, the editors are the two companies that both really wanted.
It really were really were willing to keep bidding against each other.
Kenric: that is so
Fabian: to, to get it. Yeah, it was really fun. It was [00:53:00] a really fun week. Uh, I, I haven't, I haven't had that in my, I haven't had that level of excitement in my career since like the early nineties when sales sales reports are starting to come back on all the X books, and we saw what the numbers were and they were just phenomenal.
And you get, you just get this adrenaline rush because it's not just the validation of the work itself, it's, it's, it's a validation that. That the interests can generate revenue for you because they think you can generate revenue for them, and then that means everyone's waiting, you know, that, that that's when everyone's winning.
Kenric: Yeah. That's awesome. So are, are we going to see more novels come out of you then? If this goes like this and then
Fabian: Well, yeah, I can't, yeah. It,
Kenric: a lot.
Fabian: This is, I told my wife that if I can sell this book for $10,000 to a mystery paperback publisher, uh, and 10,000 was really reaching for the stars at that point. Cause most of these kinds of
Kenric: This was the
Fabian: books sell for 4,000. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:54:00] Then I'd like to do one every couple of years through my sixties cause then we'll have social security coming in and all that stuff.
And she's like, okay, fine. You know? Um, and, and then when it turns into this. It really in many ways altered my perception of what my next 10 years are going to be because
Kenric: famous. That's so cool.
Fabian: It's a two book deal. There's no guarantee for a third vote, but what that really means is that the books that either the writing of the book or the promoting and selling in the book drives me into.
2023 because that's when the paperback version of the second one will come out. You know, if the first one comes out in hardcover in 2021 the second one, which I have to have written by summer of 2021 will come out probably summer of 2022 you know, and if the book is successful, the publisher will want to do more.
So I'll have to do the third book in the series. And part of the thing that really got me that. Got them to bite is that they, once it started to get really heated up, they start [00:55:00] asking, well, where is this a series? Are you going to bring these characters back? Cause we're really liked these characters a lot.
And I said, I got four books in mind already with a fifth percolating. And they said, really? And I gave them, I gave them paragraph pitch synopsis for each of the first four books and they saw, wow, he, he's been thinking about this for a while and it's, that's my comic book experience. At work. You know that that's me working in story worlds for my entire career.
Understanding that if I want to sell, if I want to sell a series of novels or sort of sort of, you know, um, with the same characters as the leader, then I have to, I have to be able to show them where the story world goes. And that's, that's just, that's comics one Oh one when you're working in shared universes and comics, you know.
Kenric: they probably love the organization and the fact that you have ideas already set in place.
Fabian: Yeah, they were kind of surprised by that, which kind of surprised me, um, to be honest with you. Um, and we're, I'm in the middle of [00:56:00] negotiating TV stuff on a book and so, uh, we, we got, yeah, yeah. The manuscript actually, there's been
Kenric: crossed, man. Fingers crossed.
Fabian: someone who had a TV interest in this before the main script was even finished cause he got an a first look deal.
First look at it in my agent's office. Um, she got a first look good. And then she brought it back to LA. And talked to her boss about it. And her bosses is a well known actor who has his own production company and he's interested in it, not as an actor, as a producer. Um, but I got, yeah know it's gonna happen cause I got two offers on the table from too.
Two major, major combinations of production production studios with, uh, with platforms. So, you know, without what's, uh, they're combined. So I got, I, my, my, my challenge right now is that there's no wrong. Choice and there's no right choice. So I really got to figure out which choice I should be making because both are both are pretty strong combinations.
And
Kenric: man. [00:57:00] Just go seriously. That is awesome.
Fabian: so that'll be
John: Yeah, it's really cool.
Fabian: I'm hoping into my seventies. it's cool and a part of me wishes, geez, I wish I'd done this 15 years ago, but there's also no guarantee that 15 years ago I would have written it the way I did and it would have been received the way that the, but that whole thing has a huge, is a huge game changer for me in terms of people,
Kenric: The movie.
Fabian: people, just the characters success, the cash, the characters elevation.
Not just the movie, but just the overall elevation of the character. When you say I'm the co-creator of Deadpool, that what that does then is it automatically shifts it in the minds of the people that you're talking to from a, he's a comic book writer too. He, this is the guy who. Co-created a character as a global financial phenomenon, right?
So I could, I could [00:58:00] tell an editor who's 40 years old that I wrote X man when he was 12 and he'll say, wow, that's really cool. But it's not the same thing as saying that you're able to go create a character that. Has 25 years of longevity before it explodes into a global phenomenon. So it just puts, it puts their perception of you on a different level and their perception of you, quite frankly, what drives their interest in whether they're going to look at something or not, you know, um, it, it's generally not the quality of the work that drives their interest because they haven't read the work yet, whether it, you know, so, so it has to be something else that attracts them.
And then the work has to stand up or hold up, you know? Um, so, so I, I will not deny ever in the least how, if I'm able to create a suburban Dix empire, cause that's the name of the book, the support, suburban ticks. Um, if, if I can create a suburban Dick's empire, [00:59:00] it wouldn't exist if it, if it hadn't been for Deadpool, you know.
Kenric: What do you think of the way Deadpool is everywhere now? You know what I mean? Like you go to a con and it seems like every 10th person is dressed up as Deadpool. You go, you know the Ryan Reynolds is phenomenal now with Deadpool, and it's, it's really crazy. kinda exploded.
Fabian: First of all, I'm really happy for Ryan because he promised me contractually that I'd get at least two zeros out of all the zeros he gets. So he gets lots and lots of zeros, every checkup, a lot of zeros on it. I'm guaranteed two zeros. He didn't tell me what place that I'm guaranteed. To get them in, but at least I'm guaranteed to zeros.
Um, I see. The thing is everybody, everybody looks at it as something that happened overnight. And I look at it as something that has been evolving for over 10 years now. You know, I saw it starting to [01:00:00] happen when I went to, uh, when I was actually writing cable on dead poles when I saw it starting to happen.
Um, not because of the comical selling, but because there was more. Outside interest about the character than there was in the comic of the character. You know, um, they, they had the video game and percolation. That's when cause flares for started posting stuff on YouTube. That's, those are the things that actually exploded the character before the movie came out.
The movie just took it to a very different level. But for years before the movie came out, there were already. End caps and Spencer gift stores and hot topic stores filled with Deadpool merchandise. There was already a group of teenagers who knew who this character was before there was ever a TV, a movie, a cartoon.
A few more people were reading this comic, you know, between 2010 and 2015 but not such significant numbers that it would fix. You know that it would astound you. I, when I was running cable [01:01:00] Deadpool, we were selling about 30. 30 to 35,000 copies a month. Okay. After, uh, after I left and they split the two characters off into their own books, and Deadpool really started to take off in the comics.
Um, I think it was selling around 40 to 50. Okay. None of those numbers are even remotely close to what the first Deadpool miniseries, salt, which has over 350,000 copies of an issue. You know? Um, so, so it wasn't being driven. The character interested in character wasn't being driven by the comics. It was being driven by social media, by YouTube, uh, but by, by memes that were being posted by conversations among, among, uh, teenage boys about the video game.
All of that stuff is what was percolating. It, uh, the movie just took it to another level. And we all know it's not like the Wolverine origins movie is what put dead tool on the map. Right. It almost buried him. It almost buried him six feet under. I left the, I left Marvel screening that we'll be walking back to Penn [01:02:00] station to take my train home and all.
I'm thinking to myself as, Oh, well, well, there goes that check. I'll never. I'll never go to check for the full movie cause they're never gonna make one now. And Ryan Reynolds took the part because all along he wanted to spend the character off and do, it's his own, its own series. He thought by taking the supporting role, he'd get an opportunity to show how cool the guy is and then spin it off and do his own series.
And then when they did what they did with the character and the third act, I can only imagine he wasn't all that thrilled about it, you know, because it just made the job of getting a spinoff that much harder for him. Meaning it took almost six years between them. Then the script was written to when the movie came out.
That's how long it took them to try and get this thing made.
Kenric: That's crazy. Did you have any input on the movie.
Fabian: No, not the first one. They did all their on their own. I never, I had zero idea about anything I was going to see until I sat down in the theater at the movie premiere sitting next to ed [01:03:00] screen as the actor who did Ajax. Um, and, and, uh, Tim Miller, the director was two rows ahead of me. Um. Uh, I had no idea what the movie was going to be until that I had seen very little of it.
Uh, uh, only online. I, I never, I never asked to read the script. Uh, nothing. I didn't want to know. Um, because I have no control over what do I care. I, I wanted it to be a success because I knew that if it's a success, they'll make another movie. I say, make a movie, I get a check. So I quite got to be honest with you.
If I'm not writing it, if I'm not directing it, if I'm not acting in it, I have no super vested interest in it because I have no control over it. So it's going to be whatever it's going to be. I learned that lesson after Wolverine origins, right? So all I wanted to be. Is perceived to be good enough make enough money to make another movie.
And my frustration now is that because I got a check, a check, every time they make a movie, I'm a [01:04:00] little frustrated. They haven't made a lot more movies. I would like Ryan to be making it that it, it will be every single year while he's still in his forties for God's sake. So. You know, the fact I get a check every time they make a movie doesn't really come into play, but I want a movie a year.
I want the deadfall all Marc channel. I want 50 52 Christmas Deadpool movies a year, and I want them to run once a week, all year long. Um,
Kenric: I want them to do that for you, Fabian. I want that for you.
Fabian: it. Thank you. Um, the, the, yeah, yeah, because I, I get, I get the pool, I get them full money every year. That's just part of the deal I have with Marvel.
It has nothing to do with the movie, but part of the deal is if there's a movie you got check you. So I, you know, I want, I want, I want the checks. I want that. And it's like the Anthony Mackie who plays Falcon has this big running stick. Have you ever see the, uh, the deleted scenes and all this stuff on some of the Marvel movies he has this bit where every time he finishes a [01:05:00] scene he says, cut the check, cut the check.
So, so they, they, apparently it annoys the living daylights out of everybody on the set because he does it all the time. So they put together like a super clip of him saying, cut the check on all these. So it's like 20 cut the checks in a row after every CD does, whether it's a big scene, a little scene, whether he's getting lifted up in a harness or whatever, he just goes cut the check.
So that's all I, that's kind of how I feel about the Deadpool movies. Just cut the check.
Kenric: It's kinda like, show me the money.
Fabian: think they've done a great job with the movies. I, I
Kenric: are a lot of fun.
Fabian: call and read the writers, uh, Tim Miller on the first one, and David Leach on the second one. Uh, Ryan, the cast. They've just done a really good job of putting it together.
I don't think it's an easy character to translate the film. I think they've done a really good job of figuring out the balance between straightforward [01:06:00] action, adventure. Regular funny humor between, between interesting characters and then the excessive humor that comes out of the characters and sanity, and they found a good way to blend that because it's not an easy thing to do.
There's lots and lots of comics that have gone too much mainstream, straightforward adventure. Uh, they've gone a little too much kooky, crazy humor. So, so balancing it out is tough. And I give them credit for how they've done it, uh, because I, I believe me, I know how hard it is to do on a regular basis.
And these guys do it with a lot of grace. They really do.
Kenric: Yeah, it's good. It's really good. I mean, did you watch that once upon a time and Deadpool,
Fabian: I did not actually see that one yet. I did not. I,
Kenric: good.
Fabian: I wanted to, I wanted to, and I just could never get into it. I gotta be honest with you. I am. That was the second movie, right? That they were doing once upon a
Kenric: that was the third edit or is this the second edit of the second movie
[01:07:00] Fabian: But it's the second
Kenric: yeah, and they, they added a bunch of new scenes they
Fabian: yeah, yeah. With Fred Savage and all that stuff. Yeah. I knew everything
Kenric: it was Ryan Reynolds telling Disney, Hey, we could do this PG 13 if you let us.
Fabian: If you buy Fox, but they made that before. No, this was Fox and wanting to make more money is what it amounts to you guys there.
Kenric: Yup. Yup, yup. Someone tried to call in and I think that was on John's side
Fabian: I, I gotta be honest with you. I struggled to rewatch the second movie, not because I had an issue with it. That's the week I found out my dog was going to die.
So the movie and I found out that it was, she was going to die when I was in. In California for a convention doing a special fan screening of the movie. And with about five minutes left the movie, my phone rings and I realize it's my vet calling me and sh and, and with the, with the blood test results on the dog, which I thought.
We're going to define, cause the dog was seemed to be in good health and that's when, that's [01:08:00] when he told me, I hate to tell you that she's got about four weeks to live. I was like, what? Um, so I'm saying what to my vet as all the fans are coming out of the movie at the end of the movie to have a Q and a with me.
Okay. So it, no matter what Deadpool to, no offense to the guys who made it, or the movie itself, that pulled two is always going to be associated. With me, it's for the death of my dog. So it, you know, I did not watch the, the once upon a time because I did not feel like going through that in my head again, you know?
Kenric: I don't blame you. I don't blame you. That's that's, I'm sorry you went through that.
Fabian: But I just want Ryan Ryan to know then Colin Rhett and everybody that, I don't have a dog now, so feel free to make that third movie. Okay.
Kenric: It's open. You can, you can do this.
Fabian: Yeah. Yeah. You can do this now. Now you don't have to wait. The grieving period is over. Let's make that third caught the check.
Kenric: that JAG money.
John: I love
Kenric: Fabian. It's [01:09:00] been over an hour already. Can you believe it?
Fabian: can't cause we've barely covered any topics whatsoever. 40 minutes, 40 minutes on Spanish and immigration. What are we dealing with here? What's going
Kenric: so interesting though. I mean, it was fun to go through how you got to where you're at. I mean, that's. Yeah. It's more interesting to me to see how you got to where you're at and that the being this, this is actually the success that you are, as opposed to just talking about things that you did really well on.
You know, everybody your fucking knows all that stuff, you know?
Fabian: they should. They, at this point, for God's sakes, just fricking read Wikipedia.
Kenric: yeah, exactly.
Fabian: hear you. Yes. And I appreciate it. I just don't want to bore your listeners to death is what it
Kenric: Nope. If they're bored, then they're listening to the wrong podcast.
John: Right?
Kenric: No, we really appreciate you coming on. I hope we can teach you to come back because when suburban Dick's comes out, I want to, first, I want to read it and then I want to
Fabian: we got it, but all right. But we, I didn't even get a [01:10:00] chance to pin my juggernaut mini
Kenric: Let's do it. Let's pimp it out. How's
Fabian: or may not be coming. I can talk more to you guys. You guys like set on an hour or can you talk longer
Kenric: we can go as long as you want.
Fabian: Let's go a little longer just cause I want to talk about juggernaut.
Um. A five issued juggernaut mini series is supposed to start in may, but with everything going on, I don't know what's going to happen. Um, that I got the labor day week of September last year was like the weirdest, craziest week of my life over for the last 25 years. So, um, that, that's when I, that's when the agent.
My agent agreed to represent the book cause him and his agency have looked at the manuscript and really liked it. And, and that's the week I find that they're going to represent the book. Um, and then they were going to give me notes that I tweak us some things to those notes and then they take the book out, which they ended up doing in November.
Okay. That's the week that, uh, uh. A bow, an animation [01:11:00] Bible that I'd written nine months earlier for a company in LA, uh, involving Stanley and, um, Arnold Schwartzenegger called superhero kindergarten. That's when I found out that, um, they were going to green light the pilot script and I had to write the pilot script.
Um. And then Arnold Schwarzenegger had agreed to be the voice of the character, if they can raise the funds to turn it into an animated series. Um, that, that's the week I think that we finalized finally the outrage season two, contract for web tune, cause we didn't get a chance to talk yet about outrage, which is a digital comic I do on web tune with Riley Brown.
Uh, the artist. Um, but that I did cable and Deadpool with, um, and then that's also the week that I got a call out of completely left field from, uh, editor at Marvel offering me like juggernaut mini series. And I had not done anything for Marvel [01:12:00] of substance and well over two, three years. Um, and, and I wasn't planning to either.
Um, but when he said juggernaut, and he told me. The status quo and that's the status and the current status quo is a result of everything happening in the X books. I said, yeah, I really would like to do that because I really liked the character, and ironically enough, it's pretty much exactly the status quo that I wanted to set them up with 50 years earlier in my eczema forever mini series.
So I broke down the juggernaut mini series real quick. Uh, it's a really fun ride into the Marvel universe. It has very, very light, but necessary touches and connections to what's going on in the X flux right now. But the truth is that the, the series is about how does juggernaut handle. Not to being a part of all of that in the X books because he can't be, cause he's not a mutant.
So he has to find his own way. [01:13:00] And after I wrote the first two scripts, I find out that Ron Garney is going to take a look at them and see if he's interested in drawing them. And Ron Gordon, he says, yeah, this is a lot of fun. I wanted to do this with faith because we've known each other for 30 years and Ron Garney has joined the series and Ron Garney is run going is freaking fantastic.
Um. And so now the first two and a half issues of art are done. The first Jewish is, I have to written all five scripts. I've finished my skirts in January, uh, but I'm getting the art now little by little. And he finished the first half of issue three, and it's just, it looks phenomenal. I keep sneaking.
Sneak tweeting stuff because I want people to see it, because the art is just so cool and I'm really happy with it. It's not, as with anything else, I write it. We'll never win an ice. All it will do is entertain a bunch of people who read it. Um, so, so I, it's, it's, it's a fun story about an interesting character.
Who's always been a bit of a lout and a moron, and he [01:14:00] knows it and he wants to be better, but he often fails at trying to be better. So he needs help in being better. So he starts to get some help in the series. Um, I, I, I created a new character called DSL, uh, which is really kind of short for deceleration.
Um, and she's basically, it's like a, uh, Aria and the hounds kind of a relationship. Um, cause she's a teenage kid. Um, and, and, and she ends up becoming, uh, his voice of reason. She's the one who says, you should try doing this. And people will like you better if you do that. And you know, you need to get more likes on Instagram than the only way you're going to do that is if you do something heroic, that kind of thing.
So, so, you know, each issue is self-contained. Each issue has really interesting touches to the Marvel universe. Like with everything I write. Um, and, and it all has a running subplot, uh, going through it. That kind of culminates in the last issue, [01:15:00] uh, and kind of gives Marvel the opportunity to set up juggernaut in a new status quo if they want to.
I don't worry about that stuff anymore. I served them a plate that has food on it. If they feel like eating it. They can, if they feel like pushing all the peas off the plate, that's their choice too. I don't care anymore, you know? Um, uh, but, but I, but for the time I've done it, I've had a really good time doing it.
Uh, which is not something I've been able to say as much about the big two over the last 10 years. So I really did enjoy it. Then the art by Ron Garney with colors by Matt Miller, just, it's just super, super art.
Kenric: sounds like a, like a, just an all star cast for juggernaut.
Fabian: It's kinda cool. Yeah, it came together real nice. I mean, sometimes you'll get a great artist, but you don't get a great color. Sometimes you get a great colors, but the pencil is not as good. I mean, Ron is, Ron is just, he's runs a phenomenal artists. He's always been a great artist. He's one of the few artists that just keeps getting better as he gets [01:16:00] older.
And his stuff right now is just phenomenal. And Matt, Milla, I am. The biggest complaint are about mainstream comic book coloring on the planet. Um, especially at Marvel. Uh, and Matt is not one of them. I got lucky as hell. I got the one colorist on their roster that I don't complain about incessantly. Um, and that, that is really, really good.
And he, he, he is able through color to. Do the simplest of things that were always what we expected. A separation of foreground, middle ground and background, so that everything doesn't look like a gray smudge on the page. Um, and, and he does that. So every panel has a sense of, of, um, consistency and a sense of, uh, differentiation of planes and depth to it.
He's not, he's not throwing grade. Grays, Browns and blues to dark and everything. Um, so, so it's gotten mood and atmosphere. It's [01:17:00] cool. Um, I'm, I'm really liking it. Um, I, I'm really looking forward to seeing his colors on the second issue.
Kenric: How many issues are we going to be able to
Fabian: It's fine. It's a five issue mini series. Um, issue two is the Hulk.
The immortal Hulk is an issue too. Mmm. A Spiderman, Spiderman is sort of an issue. Three, but the villain is quicksand. Um, issue. Um, issue four is and Zola and Primus, uh, an issue five is the introduction to a new, a new concept in the Marvel universe that involves superhuman prisons. Um. And, and, and as, and there's also flashbacks running through each issue, which explain how he got his power back.
Because the last time we saw him on County X-Men, uh, he'd had the, the, the, the G, the Ruby gem of ripped out of his body and the Jenn was crushed. So we find out an end. He got sent [01:18:00] to limbo cause I think it was, imagine magic was possessed. Iliana was possessed. So she sent him the limbo. So that's the last we've seen him in the Marvel universe.
I think that was. 2018 um, so we'll have flashbacks, which show what happened to him from the moment he dusted himself off in limbo to the point where we see him now in the mini series with a new armor and a slightly different way of getting his powers. Um. And each issue, each issue pushes forward that, that, that flashback story.
But fanatically, it all ties into the lead story because it's all about what we do to attain power, what power means to us on a personal level. Uh, those, those are the themes of the story. Uh, and, and whether power is, is what makes us strong or whether. Whether being able to refuse the power, it makes us stronger.
Things like that are all part of part of the themes of the five [01:19:00] issues. So I'm pretty happy with it. I think it's pretty fun. I hope. I
John: Yeah. That sounds awesome.
Kenric: Yeah. I'm going to pick it up. I love juggernaut. How many times does his PA, his character's background been retconned
Fabian: Rec con, I don't know if it's ever really been rec
Kenric: cause is he still,
Fabian: Xavier stepbrother. He, he was, uh, he was spelunking away and in the far East or something, and he found the. The gem of sitter rack. Now the gym, the gym, the gym helps create the armor for him that makes him the avatar of the gods that are at the dark gods that are act.
So he's supposed to be center X. Um, I've ATAR on earth. Um, I never quite got what that meant other than a, he ran through buildings a lot. Um, so, so I guess the director likes running through buildings. I don't know. So, um, I, I don't
John: Don't we all.
Fabian: all of that cause I don't, I don't have, I'm not beholden to a lot of that cause I get to start fresh.
In a lot of ways with him. Um, so, so, so, um. So, yes, I think that there's been lots of complications to a [01:20:00] story, but not rec cons. The complications are always trying to do more with him regarding the supernatural aspects of his power. I kind of, I kind of go the other direction. I simplify it by avoiding a lot of that supernatural stuff, um, and kind of finding a way to excise aspects of it from his status quo so that.
The next writer if they choose to, doesn't have to deal with all the supernatural aspects. Um, so, so I, you know, I found ways to do that that I think worked in a pretty interesting fashion. Um, so the powers are, are now always a part of him, but he's not anyone's puppet. He's not beholden to other dimensional God for his powers.
Kenric: that's, that's the open him up to want more of a relationship with Charles.
Fabian: Yeah. I, um, he's been a member of the X-Men in decent standings, which I never read any of it cause I don't read X books. Um, I didn't read that stuff. Um, but he'd been a member in good [01:21:00] standing. No, that's a long time.
Kenric: Yeah, I read all that in the eighties and then when I hit the nineties you know, everything exploded. I was a huge new mutants fan and X-Men fan and Spiderman and you know, that's what I read. And then in the, like 92 93 about right where, uh, new mutants ended, you know, I was 18, 19 years old and you know, girl, I wanted to, I wanted to chase girls and,
Fabian: understandable.
Kenric: do a thing, so
Fabian: I found a way to chase girls and read comics at the same time. I was able to multitask. It wasn't, it wasn't a
John: Way cooler way cooler.
Fabian: I, I wasn't reading the comics as I was chasing the girls, I was able to separate the two
Kenric: Well, you understood the concept of ciphers in PSI four so
Fabian: pounds per square inch for us. And that wraps us back
Kenric: square inch is what I was
Fabian: It's powers per square inch force. Yes. They have more powers per square inch than any other [01:22:00] comic book
Kenric: They are amazing.
Fabian: Why his pinky alone. Good. Shatter the world.
Kenric: Well, I'm super excited to check out juggernaut if it doesn't cause diamond shuttered for right
Fabian: No. Yeah. Well, I'm reading, I'm just reading something on Facebook right before we started this, where some idiots saying, thanks diamond for killing comments. I'm like, am I allowed to curse on this podcast? The
Kenric: fucking course as much as you fucking want.
Fabian: are not going to be printing. Whose fucking fault is it? You're going to blame a virus.
I mean, it's not Diamond's fault if they're no one's printing. It's not Marvel's fault of no one's printing that the printers are closing. So you're without comics for a few months. It's going to be really hard on the stores, but it shouldn't be that hard on the readers. Read your old comics for God's
Kenric: right. And if you really
Fabian: read something digitally. Go to go to a web tune and read outrage for [01:23:00] free. The whole first season is free. 26 chapters. Go read it for free. Morons.
Kenric: That's a great plug. You know, and if you really care about your, your LCS, your local complex store, call up the owner. Say, Hey, can I buy some graphic novels from you or something to keep him going to keep our hammer them or her or whoever.
Fabian: yeah, just, here's mine. Just here's my credit card and take bill me for X amount of this or that and hold it until this is all over. But, but this is, I just like people always looking for somebody to blame. It's, it's crazy to me,
Kenric: Thanks Obama.
Fabian: Oh my
John: Right?
Fabian: Oh my God.
Kenric: Why do people still say that? It's so funny that now it just becomes such a
Fabian: of, most of the people will say they're saying that because they very well now how the hell, funny and sarcastic it's meant to be. Not because, not because hopefully they believe
Kenric: No, God,
Fabian: so yeah, you guys in Seattle, you in Seattle should especially [01:24:00] be wishing that Obama and still president when all this shit
Kenric: Hey, we had this 2009 we had the H one N one swine flu. It was an epidemic. Very similar to this, but the pandemic. that the government pays for was in place. The CDC was up on top of everything. All of the testing was ready. That's why it didn't become what this is. Everything broke, broke down from
Fabian: Well, this isn't, this is, this is, um, this is a ridiculously more communicable disease to the, this, the, the, the spread of this is, is exponentially greater. Than the previous stuff. So you can't, it's hard to compare it. I don't, I don't, look, I, I, I'll say on the podcast, I can't stand Trump, but it's not, cause I can't stand Trump as president.
I haven't been able to stand Trump since the 1980s cause I'm from New York. Okay. And anybody who's from New York knows [01:25:00] that Trump is an asshole. We know he's achiever. He, we know he's a liar. We've known it for 30 40 years. Right? So it has little to do with the presidency, although now his presidency affects us all on a daily basis.
Right. I don't blame him at all that the virus got here. That's not his fault. No one can stop that. It's impossible to stop, obviously, since it's everywhere in the world. Right. Now, right? But you can find fault in the choices that get made about how to implement the, the, the abilities and the expansive reach of the federal government.
And we've got a president and a cabinet who have no idea what the federal government is capable of doing. None, right?
Kenric: please don't go out and look for your politicians to tell you how to stay safe with this. Listening to dr Fowchee.
Fabian: Yeah. Listen to the doctors, dr factory, who is now no longer allowed to speak in front of the press briefings so that he can have more air [01:26:00] time. Yeah. Now we'll look, we're all going to die and it's all his fault. I just, I just,
Kenric: well, not before I read. I read suburban Dick and the juggernaut miniseries. Please
Fabian: Yeah. I just want it. Yeah. I don't, I just don't want us all to done before my book comes out. You know? That's,
Kenric: the toilet
Fabian: my, I want a book to come out while there's still a few people left to read. I'll go on a book tour. There's dead bodies full around it and two people in line. I love your
Kenric: is that light going so slow?
Fabian: really want to talk about the exhibition in 1994. Okay. Let's talk about the, excellent. All right guys. I really appreciate it. This was a lot of fun.
Kenric: Oh, I'm so glad you had fun
Fabian: you guys were great to talk to.
Kenric: when things are coming back in your books coming out, reach out to us. Let us know. Uh, what. We'll pimp it out on our website or Facebook or Twitter, all that kind of stuff, and
Fabian: I'll once, I have a, once I have a release date for the book and I know what the publicity [01:27:00] plan for it is, and once I have a better idea of what's going to happen with TV, because I do strongly have confidence that something will happen with TV, um, then, then we'll see where it goes. Okay?
Kenric: Cool man. Talk to you
Fabian: All right guys. Thanks a lot. Have a good night. Talk to you later. Stay safe. Stay inside.
Kenric: Yeah, you too. You too.
John: Just stay inside.
Kenric: Did that totally fucked me up.
John: Sorry.
Kenric: I was like, what the fuck is going on right now? Cause I thought you were a Jew you don't like, like you're going to do like half of it and then stop and then you just kept going. I'm like. Uh huh. And I was like, seriously? Like took the deep breath, getting ready to go, and all of a sudden, Oh, Nope,
John: I mean, we can redo it if you want
Kenric: no, no, no, no, no, no. It's fine. It's hilarious. I was just, but you know what I mean? In your [01:28:00] mind when you're getting ready to go. And then somebody like sneaks in and you know what I mean?
John: right, right, exactly.
Kenric: for that hamburger. It's the last one. You're like, Oh, you eat the hamburger and somebody swoops in right in front of you and takes it.
And they don't even realize that you're like heading towards it. They didn't do it to be an asshole. They just, they didn't realize you were heading towards it to eat it too, right. Or they probably would have stopped.
John: Oh, kind of like when I was going to buy that rod rhino piece.
Kenric: Oh my God, please.
John: I'm kidding.
Kenric: not going to buy it and you know it.
John: I know it wasn't a bite. Anyways. Alright, let's come back. Go and come back.
Kenric: Well, I feel like I don't, you know. All right. Welcome back.
John: Welcome back to the show.
Kenric: back to the show, Fabian. That guy is doing a lot. He's a nice guy and a gal. That was crazy amount of, uh, work that he does.
John: he was super cool man. Like I don't, you know, we got to meet him. Cody and Caitlin. I got to meet him and he [01:29:00] wants to comic Comicon a couple years ago he was, had his, it was, it was kind of cool. He had this huge long line. Cause he's the creator of Deadpool and I really wanted to get all the DePaul stuff signed.
He had, he was, you know, there was a, a donation or a charge for like certain things like the first appearance. Start with that because those are going to, once you sign on, they're worth a ton more money. But Cody is a big nipple fan of want him and think. Cody was like 13 or 14 at the time. And uh, we're like, we're waiting and we're like, we get it there.
And we're like, man, this line is like going out the door. And we talked to somebody and I'm like, Hey, a lot of this line is people who have CGC and they're paying for this stuff. My son just wants to say hi real quick and maybe get his action figure sign or something. And the guy was like, Oh, I don't know.
I know. And then Fabion was like, Hey, no, no. Come over, come on, come on. We'll go over. And then he's got like 10 minutes talking to Cody about Deadpool sign his action figure forum. Got he. He got this poster where he, he wrote all this stuff out on it, then signed up for Cody. And crystal has both those upstairs room.
Kenric: Why didn't you tell him this during the interview?
John: I don't know, but it was Tanya now and it was, it was awesome. Cause Cody talks, Cody still talks about [01:30:00] medium and how it was awesome because he got it for Cody. He's like, I got to cut the line and meet the guy at everyone else. I got to go hot. All the adults who want their stuff signed. I got my stuff signed and I didn't have to wait in line.
I'm like, yeah, it's cause you were a kid.
Kenric: comic book creators should be. Especially ones that are making things that are for cause. I mean, cause Marvel really is still preteen right?
John: Yeah.
Kenric: I mean, I, I, that's how I think of it. Like the stories they write and all that. Some of them are more adult obviously, and some of them are, you know, more geared towards later teenagers, I guess.
But the majority that they do is still set for that 1213 year old.
John: Right, right. It's all like, you know, preteen, teenager stuff, which is fine,
Kenric: Which is great. And I, and I, I love the fact that he said, Hey, no, no, you cut the line. You come over here. Cause seriously, if they're waiting with the, do all their CGC stuff, then whatever, you know. Right. Cause it's like, I mean don't get me wrong, I don't, I don't feel ill will towards anybody that cause I, I mean we have done [01:31:00] shows about comic book investing.
John: We have, and we have an episode about CDC, and our thoughts aren't great at County folks. If you go back to the very early days, like
Kenric: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
John: that or something.
Kenric: yeah. And I, you know, I don't begrudge anybody that is speculating on the market because I've done that. I still do it from time to time. It's, you do get a high from doing it.
John: yeah. Yeah. And to, to everybody in lion's credit, eh, did all people were waiting in line. They were all cool with it. Nobody, nobody, nobody in aligned got upset with Cody being up to go and meet him. They're all like, no, no, it's fine. Let him go. Let it. It's totally cool. Let them cut.
You know, even even some people are like, no, no. Let them cut in front of us. If they say no, and he can just come right here. So they were totally cool about it.
Kenric: Yeah. At the end though, that's exactly what comic book creators need to be doing is reaching out to those, those teenage kids or those kids that are waiting to meet them and waiting to get their stuff signed and all that, because you create a fan for life after that.
John: Well, it's true, Cody, right? He's 17 [01:32:00] now and he's been going to comic cons to me for his, for his whole life. Right. And now he's not really into comics so much. He's more into fishing in 17 years old, which is totally cool. But two of his biggest memories of growing up, and he's still, he still talks about, is that meeting with Bobby Owen and a very similar meeting with George Perez in Portland, like, and those two things where he's like, he got not singled out, but he got to like cut the line, meet the creator of somebody.
He's something he really cares about or cared about at that point in his life. Those two things still stick out to him and he's 17 or get killed, who, you know, probably hasn't read a comic book right now and probably the last two years because he's busy doing teenage things. All our teams. So what is it called?
But he's always back. And that's where I think if you're a creator, I mean
Kenric: that's what you need to be doing right there.
John: hit the kids. Well, no, don't hit your kids, but talk to the kids.
Kenric: Hit your kids. Don't hit the kids. I mean, all right guys. I hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we did making it. It was a lot of fun. Thank you, Fabian for coming on. [01:33:00] Thanks Jeff for procuring that
John: yes, yes.
Kenric: And really, if you loved that interview, then go back and check out all the interviews we have to offer because there is a plethora of interviews out there from spoiler country on spoiler verse.com no fricking paywall right now.
John: no paywall at all. Just go there, click listen, and you'll love it and enjoy and have a good time. Guaranteed.
Kenric: Yup. There you guys go on top of that. Awkward pause.
John: awkward pause.
Kenric: of that, if you want to help us out even more, open up your pod catcher. Okay. And just do a quick search for spoiler country and hit subscribe. You'll get all the latest in it, all the latest interviews, all the latest episodes, all the fun stuff that comes out from us. And then if you really enjoy us, and I hope you do because we put a lot of work into this, maybe head out to iTunes or Google play.
And give us a review and [01:34:00] share it out. It helps tremendously.
John: It does. It helps more than you realize. That one lets us know what you think of us. And two, it lets other people find the show and and understand how awesome do you think we really are. And if you want to go one step further and giving us an interview, or if you want to skip the review and go one step further, go to spillovers.com click on that store link in the middle of there.
Go to our T public store and pick up a tee shirt or a mug or, or anything you want. To purchase underwear to support the show. We get a few dollars out of it, helps get the lights on, helps us pay the bills for the show and helps support us and also helps show everybody that you have good taste and podcasts.
Kenric: Good tasted podcasts. I love it. Alright guys, that's a show
John: that is a show
Kenric: and it oceans or podcasts
John: are good through. Lou.
Kenric: compels you to do open the mind.
John: read more.
Kenric: There you go. I like that better.
John: Yeah.

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"Drinks and Comics with Spoiler Country!"
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