Cavan Scott - Transformers/Back To The Future! from IDW!

Cavin Scott – Interview – JEFF – SKYPE.output

Jeff: [00:00:00] Hello listeners will spoil our country today on the show. We have a fantastic guest, Mr. Kevin Scott. How’s it going? Mr. Scott?

[00:00:07] Cavan: [00:00:07] It’s going to, well, thank you. Yeah, but please don’t call me Mr. Scott. It sounds like my dad. I’m sorry. He’s Kevin. Okay. Yeah,

[00:00:15] Jeff: [00:00:15] I’ll definitely go with Kevin from this point forward.

[00:00:19] So Kevin, so when did your dream of becoming a writer first materialize?

[00:00:23]Cavan: [00:00:23] Well, I’ve been up in writing professionally for nearly 20 years next year. I started in radio drama in the UK writing for doctor who long before doctor who came back to the TV So, yeah, that’s, that’s where I start.

[00:00:38] I was a magazine journalist journalists, first of all. And I have the opportunity to write for Dr. Who as a sideline really. And so yeah, the first one came out in 2001 and it sort of snowballed since then really.

[00:00:50] Jeff: [00:00:50] So, I guess I have to ask which doctor is your doctor?

[00:00:53] Cavan: [00:00:53] Well, my, my daughter is Tom Baker, the fourth doctor.

[00:00:56] Cause he was the doctor when I was growing up. I was terrified of him. Absolutely terrified. I think I was more terrified of him than the monsters, but the reason I used to choose him with K9 who is his robot dog. And I was obsessed with K9 and I would have to sort of brave. Watching doc too. Cause I’ve always loved monsters, but I was a bit of, a bit of a coward watching these things.

[00:01:18]But yeah, canine made it all worth it. So so yeah, he was the reason I probably started watching.

[00:01:23] Jeff: [00:01:23] So

[00:01:27] with Dr. Hill, do you find that people, it really is which your first doctor is always the one that people find it as their favorite?

[00:01:35] Cavan: [00:01:35] Oh, I think so. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean it’s or that perhaps it’s not. Maybe not stage your favorite, but I think it’s the one you think of as the doctor, when you, when you look back at the shadow.

[00:01:44]I mean, I, I. Tom probably still is my, you know, the one I go back to, he’s my sort of comfort doctor, but, you know, I, I can definitely appreciate the doctors who came before and since as well, but yeah, I think, I think it’s that nostalgia thing. I mean, it’s like any of these big franchises, I think you always remember when you first.

[00:02:03] Delve into them and on those characters at the forefront of that point, I think become more important to you. And it’s the same for comics as well. You know, I think, especially when you’re thinking of superhero comics, you know, whoever the iteration of is of your favorite hero or your superhero team is that’s what sticks to you?

[00:02:19] I mean, I still, when I think of the Avengers, I still think of the beast being an Avenger or the next man, because when I started to read the Avengers, he was an actor, he was an Avenger. And it was only later that I knew him through, through the X-Men. So I think, yeah, it’s absolutely those sort of first instances of encountering all these different heroes, whatever the media that’s what feels right to you.

[00:02:40] Do you know what I mean?

[00:02:41] Jeff: [00:02:41] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I must admit, I came really, really late to the doctor who party my doctor is the Matt Smith doctor. That’s when I caught on with, but at the same time, I was already like in my mid thirties, by the time I discovered doctor who finally.

[00:02:55] Cavan: [00:02:55] Yeah, well, I mean, Matt opened the doors in America.

[00:02:58] Well, both Martin and David turned and opened the doors in America. I think mouse is super belter. I love, I always, I’m always surprised when I go back and watch those episodes. Just how. Great. He is. I shouldn’t be surprised he’s an amazing actor, but you know, it’s that he, he personifies that thing of, you know, an old man in a young man’s body.

[00:03:17] And I think there’s just something very gawky and wonderful and melancholy about his doctor while also being obviously quite off the wall and point. But yeah, no, I, I love his, I love his interpretation.

[00:03:28] Jeff: [00:03:28] Yeah, I must say I really enjoyed the fantasy element of his show. I mean Donaldson and the spaceship is so goofy.

[00:03:34] So

[00:03:36] Cavan: [00:03:36] I’m a big fan of that. I like, I love the sort of fairy tale aspect of it, of those early Matt Smith episodes. I think it’s a really nice tone.  Yeah, I think he he’s, he’s grown it cause the 50th anniversary, he was the doctor at the home. And so I think that that means a lot.

[00:03:51] Jeff: [00:03:51] So have you ever considered going back and running the doctor?

[00:03:53] Who again.

[00:03:55] Cavan: [00:03:55] I mean, I think I’ve been writing docs who pretty much all the way through. It’s only in the last couple of years, I’ve not written much doctor who, so I’ve written all of the doctors except for the current doctor. Because. Minor minor because I wasn’t, I haven’t been writing Dr. Pace since, since Jody debuted, but yeah, I’ve, I’ve written Dr.

[00:04:13] Who in comics in audio in novels are over in nonfiction work. I mean, before the stuff I’m doing now, I think probably I was most known for my daughter who stuff, especially over here. So I, I it’s nice having a little break at the minute because it means I’ve gone back to being a fan a hundred percent and not knowing anything that’s happened in which is wonderful, but I do get the itch every now and then to, to dip back into that world because it’s so familiar and it’s, you know, it’s where I started.

[00:04:36] Jeff: [00:04:36] You able to separate yourself from the show, like when you watch the episodes, the ones that you’re you’re like the current doctor, do you find yourself saying I would have done this differently? I wish they had gone here instead. Or are you able to sit back completely and as an audience member and just kinda sit back and just enjoy it.

[00:04:51] Cavan: [00:04:51] Isn’t that what fans do anyway. Well, I wouldn’t have done that. I would have done this. I think, yeah, I mean, I, I enjoy in a different way now because I’m not, I’m not having to think cause overnight, how does that affect the stuff I’m working on? But yeah, I think, I think I’ve always been the kind of farm wherever, whatever it is that, and I think it’s part and parcel of being a writer as well, that you do read it’s very difficult to read or watch some things.

[00:05:16] I not to start thinking about work and how and how you would do things and, and, and ideas that sparked off from it. So so yeah, I, but I, I, so I’ve enjoyed it. I’ve enjoyed sitting back and watching it with the family and doing that without having to sort of tie it into what I’m doing in the, in the nine to five.

[00:05:34] But

[00:05:34] it

[00:05:34] Jeff: [00:05:34] must be a phenomenal experience to know that you’re so tightly entwined with a franchise that that’s widely beloved and has such a strong flavor.

[00:05:45] Cavan: [00:05:45] Yeah. And it’s it’s. It’s sort of been, I mean, it’s what I’ve lost. He done, you know it’s only more recently I’ve been so brunch now into air quotes, my own stuff.

[00:05:55]I, I, I’ve worked a lot in a lot of big licenses and a lot bigger universities over the years. And now, I mean, I think I’ve probably best known for the star Wars, but it come down it, but does the responsibility that, because again, because these. Franchises are so important to people. I understand how important now, because I, you know, I I’m a fan of them myself, so there’s a responsibility there which can be quite terrifying and quite numbing in a first, when you first started to delve into it But yeah, you, you, you have to keep that responsibility central.

[00:06:27] I think it doesn’t mean you have to do foreign service. I don’t think it means you have to. You’ve still got to tell the best story you can tell, and you can’t get too worried about it. But at the same time, you have to have the responsibility of knowing that these characters are so beloved people. And they are going to get, you know, you’re going to get a strong reaction for good or evil.

[00:06:44]You know, About them because they’re so beloved by people. So yeah, so I think it’s always there in the back of your mind and, and yeah, and it’s just a joy, you know, I, I always joke my, to do list is very much the same today as it was when I was 10. So, you know, it’s it’s not a bad way to live in.

[00:07:01]And. Yeah, it’s the, the only downside I suppose, is that it’s very easy. It’s very difficult to switch off. So, you know the kind of stuff that I would have switched off by putting on TV or read in these days and stuff I’m working in. So I’ve had to find different ways to relax.

[00:07:17] Jeff: [00:07:17] It must be a little bit almost like walking on glass a little bit where, you know, there are certain segment of fan base that will find any issue of continuity that’s mistaken, then it will find any issue of something that might feel.

[00:07:30] Slightly different from a point of view of voice. Do you ever, does, is that stifling or is that part of the excitement?

[00:07:37]Cavan: [00:07:37] I just think it’s something you have to not really think about too much because you will become paralyzed and there are always going to be fans for any property who will react strongly.

[00:07:49]I knew, I knew you want fans to react strongly. You want your work to be talked about. You want people to think about it. There are going to be people who. Will come at you for it because, you know, again, I think that’s the fan experience. You, you have, you, you own these characters in your heart so much that when something happens that you don’t like, and it doesn’t fit your take on the character or the series or whatever that you have a strong reaction to.

[00:08:13] And yeah. And yeah, definitely. I’ve had encounters in the past with things I’ve worked on when this has happened. I try not to respond. Well, I’ll try not to respond in a negative way. I respond in a way that if someone’s coming to me and they genuinely want to genuinely want the conversation as a fan I’m happy to talk because the end of the day, you know, it’s, it’s fun chart and it’s what we all love doing.

[00:08:34]If someone just wants to come and sling things at you and call, you know, throw names around, I’m not interested, I won’t engage, but I think it’s important to, as far as you can treat these, you know, treat anyone who comes to you with that kind of. Reaction we’ve respect because they have invested so much into these characters and, and you’re a part of that.

[00:08:53] And I think starting out, I forgot that I was aligned them with the brand so much. So, you know, when I was first, I mean, when I first started out social networks, weren’t really a thing. You know, that when there was internet forums and I was still operating on those properly as a fan as well and, and commenting on things and, you know, and, and being snarky about things.

[00:09:16] And then I suddenly thought, well, hang on a minute, that’s not helpful to anyone because people just take you as being the voice of that particular universe. You know, so Dr. Who or star Wars, Kevin Scott says this, or even worse star Wars as this and. That’s not fair to the other people you’re working with.

[00:09:36] And I don’t actually think it’s fair to the fandom as a whole, but so I think you have to take a step back and realize you can’t be that kind of fan anymore. Not so you can’t infuse, but I think you have to act in a V you know, in a, in a certain way. So I have probably withdrawn from sort of some part of fan discourse and now my poor friends get it.

[00:09:55] Instead of they get things down the pub, like, like w well, we could go to pubs Like, like it always was before the internet. So, so yeah, it does change the way and I, I I’m, I’m glad I sort of came to that realization because at the first, you know, at first instance, I hadn’t really talked and and it was, it’s very easy as everyone knows who’s ever been online, it’s very easy to get into an argument.

[00:10:18]But I think when you’re working on something. You have to have not mobile when you sit back and go, is this helpful? No, I don’t think it is. I mean, this is just my personal take. I mean, there are other views obviously, but it’s something that I, I actually try to avoid now, you know, I say I will talk, I will go against conversations, bunk it into slang, slanging matches.

[00:10:40] I don’t see the point. But yeah, I do. I do have to stop and think and say, no. This isn’t, I’ve taken a fan hat off here, and I am speaking to someone who’s actively working on these series. So I have to bear that in mind it,

[00:10:52] Jeff: [00:10:52] I do find it that there is, or should be a different difference between a fan with maybe a disagreement and the issue of fan entitlement, where you feel that it’s your right to attack a crater of something that you’re interested in.

[00:11:06] I think that’s always where. The the problem lies where people feel like it’s their right to make the attack, instead of just realizing maybe something is not to your liking, but it doesn’t deserve it. The hostility.

[00:11:20] Cavan: [00:11:20] Yeah. I mean, I that’s very much my view. There are, you know, I’m a fan of big franchises towards whose star Wars, James Bond, things like that.

[00:11:28] Star Trek. Do I like everything about them? No, not at all, but you know, I, I’m very much aware that there. There are other elements of those series that I love. And so I, I struggle with the idea that you have to like, have everything to do with a franchise because I don’t think it was possible. And I don’t think it should be, it shouldn’t be a requirement, you know, and, and.

[00:11:49] Yeah. So if I don’t like something, as I said, I’m quite vocal, probably privately about it, but I try never to then attack someone because they like it because I don’t see again, I don’t see the point or if they’re getting love from it, you know, and, and I don’t get that. Well, that’s fine. There’s, there’s plenty.

[00:12:05] There’s plenty out there that I can love as much as they love that element. And, and again, when people come, you know, and I do have Times when people come at me because I’m, I’m writing for, for for star Wars, you know, modern Canon star Wars. And, you know, people come at me because they were far enough the ODU.

[00:12:23] And, and so it gives me the chance to say brilliant. Okay. What was your favorite book? What was your favorite dog court service? And I’d much rather get into that because they, most of the time I could tell, I totally understand that, you know, they don’t might not like new stuff and, and, and. Yeah, I got it.

[00:12:38] I can’t change it. I can’t change the situation of, of what it is. But I can absolutely talk about that. The elements of the universe that they love. And I bet you, we can find common ground because I’m a true believer that if you know, all farms can find common ground and the thing they love and they should and there should be disagreement as well, because if we all like the same things, it will be a very boring world.

[00:13:01] I

[00:13:01] Jeff: [00:13:01] agree a hundred percent. And I also believe very strongly that not every version of a. Franchise it’s meant or has to be meant just for you pacifically, you know what I’m saying? That sometimes they might be a common book that maybe you don’t like a version of something, but it wasn’t necessarily meant for you, but for a different audience.

[00:13:22] And that should be recognized as well. That yes, they’re whining in the audience they’re running for other people that is just as equally as acceptable. And even though that’s not for you, maybe the next one come along will be, and you should hope for success regardless.

[00:13:36] Cavan: [00:13:36] That’s a foot for long running things like long running comic books and TV shows.

[00:13:41] I think that’s absolutely something you bear in mind that, you know, you might not like the current iteration, but you know, things will change again. And, and. So I think the excitement, you know, so I’ve been a doctor who fan, since I was, you know, since the, the mid, mid seventies have I liked to have report of doctor who since then?

[00:13:59] No, of course I haven’t, but I, Oh, you know, there’s always something I can enjoy in it. And I always know that, you know, It’s a show about change. It’s a, it’s a show about, you know, evolving and developing and, you know, I might not like one of the, one of the companions, but another companion it’ll be on in a couple of years time and, you know, and I might like that one.

[00:14:17]So yeah, I think it’s absolutely, I think it’s the healthiest way to view things. And definitely, I think now, We’re seeing with all the franchises we have out there, you know, you, you are able to see variations on a theme throughout them that, you know, one thing we’re getting very good at in franchises is having sort of like different ages within the franchise of the different entry points and things like that.

[00:14:39] So I think, yeah, I’m always there. I’m always there for exploring different avenues within franchises, because I think there’s always something that you’ll find to love.

[00:14:49] Jeff: [00:14:49] Well, another franchise that you’re tied very tightly with is the skyline or series of books, which is based on these spirals video game is a difficult to expand upon a video game for a book

[00:15:01] Cavan: [00:15:01] series.

[00:15:02]Well that was scared, cause it’s been a while since I wrote those. But the thing with the skyline to show at the time the series was, I think I ended up writing about 30 books for them. Was that. The show, sorry. The game didn’t really exist. When I, when I came on board there was, they were working on the game.

[00:15:19] There had no real backstory. They had the characters and they, you know, these characters are about two or three lines to sum up the APAC story. So actually that one was quite. Easy because I had a load of, of a load of opportunities create with Skylanders and, you know, it was, I was there right at the beginning.

[00:15:36] And so a lot of the stuff that universe had just hadn’t been set. So yeah, that I had a lot of freedom with Scotland, especially the beginning as a show, as the. The, the series went on and more games came out, actually that freedom starts to diminish because things get set in stone. So yeah, that was that was a very different prophet project to something like Assassin’s creed, which I’ve been working on recently with the holla comment book for dark holes.

[00:15:58]Obviously that’s a very set universe. And so you have to learn I’m one. I, you know, I will happily admit I’ve played some Assassin’s creed. I’m not, I would never say I’m a massive. I sauces Cree finally plays everything and sees everything and read everything. It’s something I’ve dipped in and out of.

[00:16:12] So with that one, I had to immerse myself in a universe. Again, it’s slightly different because every iteration, you know, has its own time era and with Vikings at the minute, I’m a big Viking nerd. So I could delve into that. But but yeah, it’s it’s always. It’s always interesting when you’re faced with something where you, you don’t necessarily have the personal connection with it.

[00:16:34] But again, I think that your task of the writing is to find that personal connection, because I think it always shows when you’re writing something you don’t really care much about. So part of my, my. Process for want of a better word is that I, you know, I have to immerse myself in something and treat it as a research project as well.

[00:16:52] You know, treat it as histories that haven’t happened yet, or, you know on zombie real and, and read as much as I can and, and delve into it as much as I can. So that again, for the respect to the fans who actually love these things and live them every day

[00:17:06] Jeff: [00:17:06] now, when you’re writing for something like a video game I’m, I’m sure.

[00:17:11] The, the machine, the way it works and the amount of money made in the video game probably greatly eclipses whatever and ancillary books, whoever connect to it. Do you ever find that. If you have, when you stated let’s say something like Skylander and you put something in, like before you said that gaming even was made as part of its own part of the world, as part of the universe, do you find that the video game, do they have the license to go in their own direction and kind of contradict what you ride or do you guys really work in unison?

[00:17:43] Cavan: [00:17:43] Depends on, on what you’re working on. I mean, there’s some some franchises that are very hot on keeping everything together. And then there are other franchises that have a definite pecking order, you know? And I think one is dots who, you know, the, the TV show will always Trump, everything else. And in regards to that, so that’s a universe with a tangled continuity But, yeah, I mean, so then you’ve got other things like star Wars where obviously we’re working really hard to make sure that nothing contradicts.

[00:18:10] I mean, I think there’s always gonna be a case that there will be something. And I think you have to think about what’s the importance of story over continuity sometimes, but Yeah. I mean, it really depends. It’s a star Wars. Part of the, of the, of, of the entire gig now is that know it’s, it’s trying to be a big, you know, unified universe and things of cause and effect.

[00:18:33]So, yeah, th there are other, there are other properties I’ve worked on where I I’ve worked on Highlander in the past and things like that, and that’s completely been overwritten ever since. And and so should be good. And then when I was working on the Vikings comments to tie into the Vikings TV show on history, I was working with the showrunner.

[00:18:50] So, you know, it was very much tied into the Canon of the show. So it really just depends what you’re working on.

[00:18:56]Jeff: [00:18:56] You read a lot of licensed properties. Do, do you find that sometimes license writing for licensed properties gets a bad rap in certain parts of the writing community? Or do you or do you think that’s not ever something that’s ever brought up?

[00:19:10] Cavan: [00:19:10] I think it does. I think there’s an element. Sometimes that, you know, it’s seen as a as a lesser art in a way, I think it’s I think it’s, it’s a different art. I think when you’re writing in a licensed universe, there are certain skill sets you have to bring to it to be successful. I don’t know if it’s such a big thing these days and are probably, you know, people are probably shouting at them wherever that, listen, this going, Scott, where you talked about I think the world has embraced the idea of franchises and I think the MCU has got a lot to do with R and D.

[00:19:46] People seeing, you know, Keena now to half the us or multimedia aspects of what they’re enjoying. I mean, something I’ve always enjoyed. It’s something I’ve always really. Really flushed him because it know it does, it does give you chance to explore things that you’ve loved for a long time. I think in the, in the wider world, outside of writing, I think it’s really interesting because I can be talking to friends around here and talk about my, you know, we’ll talk about what the common come down with volt at the minute and they go, Oh yeah, that’s interesting.

[00:20:19] And then I say, I’m working on. You know, transformers or I’m working on star Wars and that there is breakup cause they obviously know it. So I think again, there’s a difference between what we in the industry thing. And then the, the wider world. I don’t, I don’t know. I, I mean, I, I try. Again, I try not to think about that because at the end of the day, I just want to do the best job I can.

[00:20:38]And I think you only have to see, I’ve been involved recently in the second from a certain point of view charity ontology, there’s pullouts and celebrate empire strikes back, came out a couple of weeks ago. And I was one of, sort of, I suppose, now the, the old guard has star Wars writers in it. And then there was loads of new people writing short stories into that collection.

[00:20:55]People, you know, with their own set books areas and, and working in different areas. And you can just see the excitement that they’re writing star Wars. And I know that’s what I love. I mean, end of the day, it’s supposed to be fun. And I think that if you can keep that fun and that excitement and that joy of playing with these toys that you love I think it comes across.

[00:21:14] Jeff: [00:21:14] And, and also do like one thing I do licensed property, especially people writing them. It does widen the audience of those of people who are reading. You know what I mean? There’s a, there’s a way it’s a fantastic way to get people who maybe only know video games or are not maybe often enticed to do a lot of reading to pick up a story comic book or a book and say, well, I’m curious about this.

[00:21:37] This is something I love. And video games or movies, and now I can experience it in reading. I think it’s just, it just, it’s good. I think for the entire

[00:21:43] Cavan: [00:21:43] industry, I think absolutely. I know I’ve done a lot of work in schools when you go into what, with kids who are reluctant readers and especially boys as well, who perhaps have this of this idea that reading isn’t for them.

[00:21:55]And then they discover that there’s, you know, an assassin creep book or there’s, you know, a star Wars book or, or, or whatever they’re in at that, into, at that minute. And you can see the joy in their faces when they pick it up and they start reading and especially, I think comic, this is why comics excels because yeah, absolutely made then they read us, there is something for them.

[00:22:15]And it is it’s it’s it’s a university. They understand them. They get, and they get excited about, and I think that’s really important. And I started reading because I used to read the Dr. Who novelizations of the seventies and the Marvel UK Reprints of star Wars, star Wars weekly over here.

[00:22:31] And My comic development as a reader, you know, came from things like the Marvel UK is transformers line and things like that because it was stuff that I was really into. And there was this weekly comic turning out, but, you know, and, and so my lick. Current literacy came from that as well and expanded me that, and it got me into comic shops and got me into read.

[00:22:52] I mean, one thing Marvel used to do that was really clever was they used to do these weeklies over in the UK. And the backup would always be something that one of their own properties, but not in yet, not a huge one, not like Spider-Man or whole whoever. So in the back of star Wars, it was Star-Lord and back of transformers, it was machine man.

[00:23:07]And it was always something that was linked to the main property, but it got you, you know, interested in these. In these characters because it followed the general line of the comic you were read in. So you, you would have picked up star Wars cause you’re into science fiction and star Wars, and then you get one of these sort of cosmic heroes of Marvin in the background that then you might go and find out more.

[00:23:27] And that’s exactly how it worked for me. You know, that’s, I, I then started venturing into comic stop shops and discovering American comics. So yeah, I think it’s vitally important.

[00:23:38] Jeff: [00:23:38] And, and I completely agree. I teach a high school, a therapeutic high school in Rhode Island, and I do know my student, you know, my students are reluctant readers, but one of the students think that my student, one of my students loves to read is the Watchman.

[00:23:50]And once again, I think he got connected to it from the movie. And eventually he’s now obviously upsets the comic books and whatnot, and I think it’s a wonderful, and you know, it, it comes with the idea of that. No matter what they’re reading long as they’re reading something. I think that that’s

[00:24:05] Cavan: [00:24:05] fantastic.

[00:24:06] I think that’s the important thing. And, and, and then as a creator of this stuff, the responsibility on you is to make it good. And to make it worth reading, you know? And, and so all the properties I’ve worked on, I’ve tried my best to make it feel like a good, solid story, you know, that’s worth your time.

[00:24:24]I don’t think it can be fluff. I don’t think it could be a hell that will do. I think, you know, that’s the worst possible thing you can do because that could be the only book someone picks up or the only comic someone picks up that year. So it has to be the best possible comic that you can make at that time, or the best possible novel, because it could be the thing that gets them hooked.

[00:24:43]And so yeah, the responsibly to the writer is absolutely to do that. And you know, and let’s face it, you throw it out into the wider comic industry. Marvel and DC, most superhero comics are licensed comics. You know, they are tying work if you’d like, because you’re tying into established universe and you’re hired, it’s work for hire you, or you’re hired to come in and do the best possible job and is exactly the same, you know, no one, no one ever sets out to do a bad.

[00:25:09] Tie in or to do a bad comic or pepper where they shouldn’t, because again, it could be the first book or comic someone’s ever picked up. And it’s important because on the front cover you’ve got Spiderman or Batman or Superman, or wonder woman or doctor who or star Wars or star Trek, you know, that you have to live to that.

[00:25:27]That quality because people should expect it to be the best it could be.

[00:25:31] Jeff: [00:25:31] Well, I, I mean, I was just thinking about what you just said, that that’s a huge responsibility on you to think about that you literally may be the one responsible for a individual or kid starting a lifetime of reading or not based on the fact they picked up your book.

[00:25:47] Cavan: [00:25:47] Yeah. But you can’t think about it too much because guide you. Cry and hide in the corner. I think it’s, it should be a part of everyone. Everyone is doing this job. I think it should be always the, you know, it’s it’s definitely, it’s definitely motivates me, you know, and, and I take jobs. On, you know, whether I think I can write the best thing within it because you know, there’s other stuff I wouldn’t be able to.

[00:26:08] And so I shouldn’t be the wrong person right now because you know, again, the same reason people have to put this up and they have to enjoy it. So I think it’s definitely a reason why I, you know, I either say yes or no to a job.

[00:26:22] Jeff: [00:26:22] Well, you’re currently writing the IDW come across over transformers and back to the teacher.

[00:26:27]How’d you get involved with the project and where did the idea come from?

[00:26:31]Cavan: [00:26:31] When it’s an idea that they brought to me once to, if I wanted to pitch for, so I’ve been writing for I D D w for years and various things. And they know I’ve been knocking on the door transformers for a long time, just because as I said, I read transformers weekly when I was a kid or, you know, the TV show.

[00:26:46] I have far too many transformers. And so it’s been something I’ve constantly tried. So knock on the door. And there’ve been a couple of near misses of IDW projects that, you know, we were going to get off the ground were transformed, was it didn’t happen. And I think it was couple of years ago, going over it to New York comic con.

[00:27:01] And I was having a chat with them and they mentioned, you know, IDW are the King of the, you know, the, of the crossover, especially with transformers at the minute. It’s, you know, it’s a very hot thing to do. And they said, would you be interested in pitching for this one? Because they were doing the toy Hasbro were doing the, the DeLorean toy.

[00:27:19] And and yeah, I mean, how could I say no, it’s. To the things that sum up the eighties for me make so much sense together in my mind. I can’t believe that hadn’t been done before. And, and it was the chance to write generation one transformers. So, you know, it was a massive smile on my face as I suppose, you know, sat down and wrote the words, optimist prime minister.

[00:27:38] In a script. So so yeah, it’s, it was, it was a case of being asked and then pitching and then keep trying to make that pitch the best it could be, because I really wanted this job.

[00:27:50] Jeff: [00:27:50] It’s kind of funny that you said it was a perfect match because I was thinking when I was reading it it’s, it’s such an odd to me.

[00:27:55] It was an odd crossover to have back to the future. I never would’ve thought of that connection.

[00:28:00] Cavan: [00:28:00] First of all, it’s got a car in it. So therefore our transformer obviously works. And I dunno it the both about time travel. Again, I think this is something to do, right? Read in transformers in the UK, in the eighties.

[00:28:11]I don’t know if people know, but Transplant was weekly. It was massive in the UK. So they reprinted the Marvel original limited series, which went on to an ongoing. But there wasn’t enough stories because a weekly, you know, title had a bigger turnaround. So Simon Therma was the writer they got in to basically write stories in between.

[00:28:29] The issues and to fill the gaps and to add new stories. And around the time I was really into it, that’s when the 1980s transformers movie here which had Galvin Tron, who was the future, make a trial and anonymous prime and all these things. And so Simon wonderfully added time travel into it.

[00:28:47] So, you know, you had Galvin Tron coming back to the eighties from the future to take out Megatron and. So for me, it absolutely feels like it’s all part of the same thing and it gave us death’s head. Who’s now, you know, a writer, a minor character in the Marvel universe. It had a miniseries last year you know, a time traveling bounty hunters, the time travel and transform was really, really central to how I think of transformers.

[00:29:11]And so, yeah, throw in a time-traveling DeLorean and doc Smith, you know that, and it, and it seems to work for me.

[00:29:21] Jeff: [00:29:21] The one thing about back to the future office is that it’s one of those properties where the characters are so intrinsically tied to the actors who play them. I mean, you know Michael J.

[00:29:34] Fox, his voice as Marty McFly, you know, cause for Lloyd’s voice and mannerisms. As dark as, as doc Brown, is it, was it challenging to reproduce those voices as combo characters or, or can you, what do you just, what are you just able to like, hear it in your head as you’re writing it?

[00:29:52] Cavan: [00:29:52] I could hit, definitely hear them.

[00:29:53] I mean, I think the thing is then you read it back and you do really bad impressions and usually doing that, you can sort of tell, Oh, hang on Marty once say that, you know Daquan say that, or if he was going to say it, he would say it like this, the joy of working on this series is that the the sort of the script consultant on it is Bob Gale.

[00:30:13] Who obviously knows how to write these characters better than anyone in the universe. So if at any point I, you know, I did fear away from it. Pop was that, so pushing me back and say, actually, I think Marty would say this. So it’s very unusual. To get, you know, it’s not like a primary source there.

[00:30:28] You know, it was very unusual to get that level of involvement from the original writer. And one of these things and it was a joy and I just, I loved getting those notes cause it was like, seriously, this is happening. And, you know, and likewise, you know, for me, again, I could hear the transformer side of it as well, because I grew up now, you know, brighten sound, wave sound way, talks in a very distinctive way that no other transformer does.

[00:30:52]And I think the first time I wrote him, I didn’t put in his speech path then, and then I just sort of had to have desk and go. W what were you thinking? And then as soon as you do that, you realize, I knew, know how. Star screams going to say Megatron and you know you know, how am I good. Ron’s going to say star screen.

[00:31:07] So yeah, these voices are one thing I do in all of the things I write for. If it’s a licensed property is quite often just especially if it’s something to do with TV or film. Is the, I put something on like an episode of the audio, wasn’t it, but turn the picture away from me because otherwise I will sit and watch telly.

[00:31:25]But by listening to it as an audio to soundtrack in the background, that’s when you can start getting the patterns. And it was, you mentioned the Matt Smith doctor there on again from doing that, you know, Matt Smith’s doctor was really hard to get into the comic page because he’s, he says so many words.

[00:31:40]And is he has conversations with himself. So I spent. Good few days just play in the same episodes over and over and over again with episodes where he was very talky and trying to get. How he talks. And again, the comic I wrote most of the docs who was the ninth doctor. And again, listening, really listening to how Christopher boxed and delivered lines is.

[00:32:00] The doctor is very different to any other care, any other arts that deliver it nines as the doctor. So, yeah, I think it’s, it’s crucial and that’s where I think you get the authenticity and people really tie into it and you can be telling something that’s the most back to the future story in the world.

[00:32:17] But as long as Marty and doc sound like Marty and doc, I think then fans will buy into it.

[00:32:22] Jeff: [00:32:22] And, and, and read the comic. I really enjoyed it. Also I was able to read the first issue and what I love is a lot of the references to the back of the future franchise. And I’m going to go through them. One of my favorite moments in the combo, if you don’t mind.

[00:32:35]There’s a, there’s a scene where Starcom says to bef hello, anybody home think human thing. And I love that reference too. Beth from the, the back of teacher movies. And it must have been really fun to make those connections with have star cream. Now only say that line, but completely represent star scream as the bully that he is.

[00:32:54] Cavan: [00:32:54] And then. Yeah, that was the, that was the pitch though. That was the top of my pitch. Hello. It was definitely was written up before the actual storyline. And as, yeah, as soon as I, as I got an inkling of what they wanted to do with it, I knew I had to get different stuff scraped together. Because you had the w what you want to do is, but with a bully has put the next bully up the pecking order.

[00:33:15] In charge of him. So yeah. It’s yeah. And it, you know, when we have star scream without too many spoilers, you know, flying into a, into a manual factory. So you know that it’s definitely, there’s definitely, that’s not subtle, but there’s definitely ways to link in that the two, the two universities I know, again, as long as they don’t get in the way of the story, I think it’s great because then people who don’t know it.

[00:33:37]As being a reference can just enjoy the story that I read it on people who’ve been around a while and know the stories and know the universe is, you know, you get, I think an Easter egg should always be a reward. But it shouldn’t be a, you know, a stick to beat people, whether you shouldn’t have to get the Easter eggs, but if you get them, that’s cool.

[00:33:57]And, and that’s what I try to do, especially with this one as well to put lots of different references to, to the various franchises through the character

[00:34:06] Jeff: [00:34:06] and, and it wasn’t until I read that scene that I realized just how close in. Personality star screen really is to Biff Tanner the idea, not only is he a bully, but he’s a bully only until of the bigger bully comes up to him and kind of knocks me like Megatron officer to star scream is very similar to McFly is to bef you know, when he finally shows that he’s the punches in the face becomes the bigger, the bigger guy.

[00:34:32] And they really are very similar. And I never thought about that until you put them together, I was like, Oh crap, they’re really doing, you

[00:34:37] Cavan: [00:34:37] know, Stop screening is one of my favorite characters in transformers and I still love and also hate for the reasons why with, in the star Wars, it’s in the transformers, the movie from the eighties, and this can be spoiled as you for anyone who hasn’t seen a 30.

[00:34:53] Plus year old movie star screen basically sees his chance to get rid of Megatron throws Megatron out of have the shuttle Megatron gets turned into Galvin Tron. Meanwhile, star screen is quite happily crown and himself King of Cybertron, which he is for all of three seconds until gala Tron turns up and turns into dust and thinking in those few minutes, that sums up star screen.

[00:35:19] Thought that starch cream was dust. But yeah, it’s yeah, I, I I’ve always loved that moment. It’s one of my favorites, but favorite moments where, you know, stop screen turns round and says, Megatron let in the Moise, I know Cavitron shoots him, but you know, it’s, it’s. Yeah, it’s great. And I, I still, again, a lot of when I was writing that series, I don’t have music going when I’m actually writing, but to get into the, get into the theme, I, to the mood to write that many series, I was playing the, the the transformers, the movie soundtrack.

[00:35:49] I locked on the, because again, they both parts of the features and the transformers movie have great sort of soft rock anthems going on as well. So they’re quite interchangeable. So I did a little medley that I would play before getting into Ryan initially.

[00:36:03] Jeff: [00:36:03] I will say, I absolutely love the transformers movie, 1986 movie.

[00:36:08]I do own the soundtrack on CD and then I bought it for iTunes. It really is brilliant. And I don’t care. Anyone says, I love hot rod. And Brian has primer gray characters. I don’t care. Everyone says,

[00:36:20] Cavan: [00:36:20] yep. Well, you know, I’m on, I’m going to say, if you like, bottom is prime, keep reading. The transform was about to the future comic.

[00:36:28] Oh,

[00:36:28] Jeff: [00:36:28] okay. That’s that’s, that’s, that’s a nice little hint right there. Yeah. And yeah. Cause like I said, I really thought that movie was just, it was brilliant and I mean, it messed up my childhood cause obviously I’ve been his problem die, but I just thought, I never thought a movie at that time could be that brazen as that movie turned out to

[00:36:46] Cavan: [00:36:46] be.

[00:36:47] Yeah, and it doesn’t. I showed it to my daughter, my youngest daughter recently, and I forgotten how fast it is. It just does not stop. You know, it’s like things happen and then more things happen and then some more things happen and it’s just like, there is no rest bites. It’s all in that film. And yeah, of course they all the generation one.

[00:37:02]Transformers get blown out of the blown out the universe very quickly to make room for the new transformers available now in all good toy shops. But yeah, I mean, but we’ll say it’s a real hard. What I love about that is that, you know, it’s a cartoon series based on a toy line, but when those transformers die, you really feel it.

[00:37:19] And, you know, Optimist prime Downey in out the first time. It it’s, it’s an emotional moment that if you’re a transformers fan. So yeah, it’s the, yeah, there are, there are quite a few references to those points coming up in the the upcoming issues. Yeah. I,

[00:37:33] Jeff: [00:37:33] I will say I’m on several transformer, Facebook groups, and you can tell.

[00:37:39] That the fan base is so loyal to these characters, but with the amount of hatred, hot rod, guests are getting optimums prime killed. There’s so venomous towards them. It’s like, it’s not a real character. He was there for, you know, a plot point and that moment, but the hatred for that character

[00:37:54] Cavan: [00:37:54] back and read the Marvel UK transform with go.

[00:37:57] I think, I think now available as, as omnibuses rotten was Prine is amazing in them. You know, they really know what the current, so I didn’t make him a prime, you know, ultimate prime too. You know, he has a very definite character. I think he’s great. See, I go back and read the Simon Ferman issues because they are super,

[00:38:13] Jeff: [00:38:13] I definitely will.

[00:38:13] I, I do find that the introduction, well, I think 1986 movie. Change transformers in, in a, in a, in a real important way. I feel, I felt like prior to the movie, they didn’t often well define the characterizations of the transformers, but when they, after the movie came out and you had Ramez prime of that in the, in the TV series, they really seem to create real, more complexity to their characters.

[00:38:38] And they really tried before.

[00:38:40] Cavan: [00:38:40] Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and I, I, again, I, I’m always a big fan of. Villain’s going gradually more insane. And I don’t think you can go any more insane than California ended up. And, and I love now, you know, in every iteration of the comic that comes and goes, you only have to mention the word unicorn and you realize there’s going to be a reboot saying, because as soon as you’re going to con turns up, everything goes out the window.

[00:39:02]And I love that moment. I think that’s one of the great things about being the fan of that, of that franchise is that you. The same thing, the same beats keep coming back, but we look forward to them. We look forward to unicorn, arrive in and whatever iteration of the transformers were reading at the time.

[00:39:17] Cause you know, the big stuff’s going to happen. And, and yeah, I think, again, it’s that thing you have to use very wisely as a writer. You can’t tease it too much. You can’t. And when you do the crime, you have to do them really well. Because you probably, well, you have to do it better than he was in that movie, to be honest.

[00:39:31]Because you know, it’s. It’s one of those things that everyone waits for

[00:39:36] Jeff: [00:39:36] now, too. The most beloved characters in transformers is bumblebee and obviously the human spike are they getting time with Marty in the series, by any chance?

[00:39:48]Cavan: [00:39:48] The spike isn’t I couldn’t get spike and he was, I think he was in one of the original drafts, but it was just too many characters as for bumblebee.

[00:39:55] Well, you’ll just have to see, my daughter wouldn’t have, let me, right. Transform was without bumblebee in there. Because she, she adores him mainly due to the movie, the recent movie, which is brilliant. And I was very glad because it finally got her really wanted to watch transformers. But yeah, I think a bumblebee does play a part.

[00:40:13] I mean, the thing we had with this is that we have two new transformers, one you’ve met an issue one already and giggle out one more to come, you know, so they, they have to have a big share of the action as well. So, you know, we see them interacting more with the other transformers as well.

[00:40:29] Jeff: [00:40:29] Yeah.

[00:40:29] I was going to say, I think myself as I was reading that bumblebee. It does feel like the closest fit for Marty as from a Cairo for a personality standpoint. And I know I may be wrong in that. I just felt like those two characters definitely seem like destined to be around each other.

[00:40:44] Cavan: [00:40:44] Yeah. I mean, I think if if we ever get to do more, it’s definitely something I’d like to explore more between two of them as well.

[00:40:51] But I said, yeah, the re the real. As people will say as the mini series continues, you know, the most time Marty spends is with gigawatt. Who’s the T the time traveling new auto boat. And, you know, that’s for obvious reasons as well, because he is the one most, most linked to Martijn and most linked to doc.

[00:41:07]But yeah, I did try to make sure I had as many different other transformers and classic transformers in there as well.

[00:41:13] Jeff: [00:41:13] So it, it seems like the first issue definitely re references the original back to the future movie. Are we going to see references and and interact with the versions from back to the future three and two?

[00:41:26]Cavan: [00:41:26] There’s nothing from about to feature three and it really well, but there are. There are elements in there that the the pop-up, I mean, it was it was, it was basically it’s that thing as well. You don’t know if you’re ever going to have a chance to do this again, so you try and get as much and without overload in it.

[00:41:41] So there are references to both movies. And again, what transformer? Sorry, transformers. What parts of the feature too does Whether you like that movie or not, is that opens up the opportunity of a multi-verse within the bouts of each universe, which is very unique. Yeah. Very useful. When you, you know, you’re doing you’re doing a crossover story.

[00:41:58] So I think probably. In tonally, there’s some elements that come your notice from, from the second and third parts of the future movies, rather than sort of actual moments from those films. It’s very much this mini series is very much set, you know in between parts of feature one and two.

[00:42:14] Jeff: [00:42:14] So how many issues is it expected to run?

[00:42:17] Cavan: [00:42:17] As far as shoes. Yeah, I’ve got the second issue coming out in a week or so I think and then and then run right through to the next year. Yeah.

[00:42:25] Jeff: [00:42:25] Is it open for a second mini series or is it pretty much closed?

[00:42:29] Cavan: [00:42:29] I would like to say at this stage, I’d love to do more and I might have dropped stuff in there, which means that the series could continue if it fans picked it up.

[00:42:40] Jeff: [00:42:40] So another series that you’re working on is called shuttle service. Can you give it can you give a picture of our listeners?

[00:42:47] Cavan: [00:42:47] Yeah, sure. So shuttle services, my creator own comic from volt comics. It’s quite different to this stuff that I’m, I’m known for doing in licensed property. It’s more on the horror side of things, which is.

[00:42:58] You know, probably when I started out writing is where I thought I’d be writing. It’s a supernatural British, supernatural spy show that so that crosses you know, your sort of mission, impossible James Bond world with a street, which has been working in London and gets recruited for this special secret organization called MII six, six, six, who protects Britain in the world from the forces of evil.

[00:43:21] Literally. And so, yeah, it’s a 10 part series that we’re we’re we’re running with votes. Corrine Howard is the wonderful artists producing all kinds of gruesome monsters and lots of Gore. And it tells a story of a which Gina, how who’s sorry. Tina. Gina Maya who’s who’s been using her powers to act as a private detective on the streets of London.

[00:43:43] And she finds herself wrapped up in a whole lot of demonic nonsense. And that means she’s recruited by the  who are the shadow organization beyond them, my six and MFI. And yeah, it’s just been a lot of fun. We’ve got issue for she’s out now. We’ve got another issue next month. Then we got a break of a couple of months to sort of launch into the second part of the arc.

[00:44:03]With issue six and, and yeah, it’s, it’s been a blast to work on now.

[00:44:08] Jeff: [00:44:08] Th th the great thing I think about the series and I’ve really enjoyed reading it so far, is that the character Gina’s character, the protagonist has a really difficult kind of complex backstory Do you find that because there’s, you know, there’s so many there’s magic demons, monster, so many of these supernatural things in the story that you, that you need to ground Gina in a by giving her this kind of backstory, that’s a little more I don’t know complex anyway.

[00:44:37] Cavan: [00:44:37] Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, the series is interesting because I’ve been trying to write  for years in different ways. There’s been short stories within iteration of them and there’s been I’ve, I’ve tried a TV pilot for them. I’ve written all kinds of different ways of trying to get into the story and it’s never quite worked and I could never really make it land.

[00:44:56]Until I came up with the character of Gina and she really was the glue that holds it all together. Because again, it was the thing that you need, the, you need the outsider going in. And the idea, I think some of the, my favorite on the more sort of serious espionage side of things, I mean, I love my ponds.

[00:45:09] I love no possible, but when you look at things like to tailor sort of spy and that kind of John Kerry world, I love the stories of people being recruited you know, picked up on the streets. And so I started thinking what would happen if you pick some up on the street, you. Was a witch. And you know, I wanted to give her a she’s quite snarky.

[00:45:31] She’s quiet. She she’s called a loner. Which is what happens a lot of time. When you read nonfiction around the spike communities, they, they do target the loners because you don’t want someone with a massive family. You don’t want someone, you know, who will be noticed. So they, they pick this person and Gina says she could be quite unlikable.

[00:45:49] So you, you have to really work to make read as liker and, and make readers realize why she’s the way. She is. And yeah, people have been responding really well to her. I’m really pleased about that because, you know, we put a lot of time in thinking about where she came from and what it’s like to be this kind of person who has these kinds of powers that are quite self-destructive to your own life.

[00:46:12]And then it’s thrown together a team of other people who also have powers that mean they’re outside the norm. Yeah, it’s been, it’s been a really interesting mix.

[00:46:20] Jeff: [00:46:20] So. Magic is something that seems very kind of open-ended as a power. Is it important for you to define what can actually be done by these characters or is part of the fun not defining

[00:46:31] Cavan: [00:46:31] it?

[00:46:32] Oh, I do. Yeah. I’m gonna have to, I’ve got definite rules in place. And then, yeah. As we’ve only rolled the fund without breaking those rules. But yeah, so with Gina, especially, is that when she uses her magic it affects her physically. So she gets him Somnia and also gets incredibly tired, so she wants to sleep, but can’t and so, yeah, I think those sort of custom magic is always important.

[00:46:52]And then, yeah, so you build up these rules and you create these worlds and you put walls around them. So you can break down those walls at the point when no one’s expecting to be broken. So that’s definitely part of the game as well.

[00:47:04] Jeff: [00:47:04] Yeah. And another great character in this series is hex, who is such a fun character.

[00:47:09]And sometimes when he’s using his powers behind him, there’s this huge blue multi-armed. Dang beat behind him. Are we going to get a, more of a backstory of what that

[00:47:19] Cavan: [00:47:19] is? Yeah, we absolutely aren’t. So the hex is that people are not read series hex is the spy master in the world of shadow service. And he looks towards things, the purpose, like a sort of eight year old preppy boy and very old fashioned, very British.

[00:47:34] I’m always drinking tea out of China cups, but there’s something very odd about it. I mean, the fact that he can use magic and also seems a bit of a sadist, but yeah, so I. I put into the script, things like, you know, he has a Colt imagery around him and he has statues and icons and out of the blue because she’s, she’s absolutely genius.

[00:47:55]Corrine drew these amazing skeletal, demonic and angelic statues everywhere which absolutely fed into somewhere. I was going with the story and I couldn’t think no, actually know how to. Out to bring it round. And so I looked at that first, those first pencils for the first time you see the, the demonic angel skeleton thing which has got a name, but we I’m reloading.

[00:48:16] Yeah. It’s it was like, well, that’s it, that’s what we’ve been waiting for, you know? And it was, and it, it totally helped. Now. Hex is origin, which you see later on in the series can hex as a comment. So I’ve been writing hacks and things for years, but he hasn’t ever looked like that. He was, he was he’s in some of my short stories as a as a, an adult he’s in some of my stories as a old man.

[00:48:40]But this version of hacks is my favorite so far. And a lot of that’s got to do with, with current, I think the joy of writing the series is that you come to it. I mean, originally I pitched it Without an artist attached and volt put me and Karen together, even though we’d already worked together on the elements that she’s put to this areas have really helped tie it all together.

[00:49:00] And that’s the joy of working on comics, obviously. It is a true collaboration and yeah, and I think it’s a very different book. I just finished the script for issue 10 Cohen’s work, you know, and she’s six at the minute. It’s a very different book than when it started in the fact of where we’ve taken it, the plots the same.

[00:49:19]But the way we get there is different because of the elements that Cohen’s brought to it.

[00:49:24]Jeff: [00:49:24] You know, that’s some reason when I was thinking, Oh, and reading hex, the character that popped in my mind is on number five, ever seen a brother Academy. Yeah, they did number five, the character who seems like a kid, but as such, there’s like a darkness about the character and like a wisdom about him.

[00:49:40] That is well beyond the appearance of the character.

[00:49:43] Cavan: [00:49:43] Yeah. And I hadn’t seen a broader Academy till after I started writing them. So it was a bit of a, one of those moments where you go, Oh, Oh, hello. Anyway, I’m, I’m glad I did, because I think it would have influenced me too much, but yeah, I mean, there’s we, we definitely don’t delve into hexes past, later on in the run because we started in the first few shoes.

[00:50:04] We look at. Well, Jean has come from and her childhood. We’ve now started it’s issue. We look at Coyle who’s a Google who works for the what’s the agency. Oops, sorry. That’s my phone. Just ringing or just wait for that to go back. So we started with the first. Few issues, looking at Gina and our childhood.

[00:50:24] We’ve now an issue for Coyle. Who’s a Google in the in the organization who eats dead bodies and then can become them. And we’ve looked at what his origins are. And so later on in the series, we’re going to be looking at other members of the team, including hacks, although we’re only really.

[00:50:40] Skimming the surface of what hex is and where he’s come from. And I’m hoping that it’s going to go beyond this U-turn and you know, it’s something, all these things, you, you, you know, I’ve done a story in tennis shoes, which I think will be whole. And if it gets to the end of issue 10, and that’s all that is brilliant, people will have a story they can enjoy, but with we’ve got plans beyond that.

[00:50:59]And a lot of those plans involve hacks and wineries come from.

[00:51:03] Jeff: [00:51:03] Well, the only thing I think it was really cool about the series is that you have these two groups that are tugging on Gina for influence. You have Quill and you have osseous the team lead with right now by hex. Is, I’m going to kind of paraphrase transformers a little bit.

[00:51:18] It’s just more, they’re more than meets the eye to both of these groups. And maybe the one we’re thinking is the good side. Isn’t the way we think the bad side might or is already kind of defining what these groups

[00:51:28] Cavan: [00:51:28] probably are. You could think that, but I couldn’t possibly comment. Yeah, the whole point of these kinds of stories is that shade of shades of gray and quo for those who aren’t ready yet.

[00:51:39] And please go out and read it is the person who gets involved with Gina. He’s a fixer for a demonic malt he’s You’re human, but works within an, a Colt organization and he is the cleaner up, but, you know, he goes and gets rid of the bodies and he, he chases people and he ties up loose ends.

[00:51:56]And he’s very good at it. And he has been hiring Gina for a while to work for him. And that’s what brings him to brings her to the attention of  because they want to get hold of him. And it’s that classic spy thing of, you know, they’re, they want to get ahold of someone because actually they don’t want that person.

[00:52:11] They want the person behind that person. And so, yeah, she’s been, she’s been manipulated or around and it’s beginning to realize she’s being manipulated around as well. Which is going to be the interested thing. And yeah, when you’re writing this kind of stories and Rebecca Taylor, who’s our editor on shadow services, brilliant at always Pokemon go in.

[00:52:30] Who, who, who can she trust now? And do you think that’s the right person? And yeah, you have this, the series is going to develop. You’re not going to know who people Should be able to trust because I mean, as in all great spy stories, they’re all going to be twists. They’re all going to be turned and there is going to be betrayal.

[00:52:48]But you know, well, things always come good at the end. We’ll have to see.

[00:52:52] Jeff: [00:52:52] Well, and, and, and another element of the series is the idea that Gina Gina’s powers are being used right now, instinctually, which is considered an oddity among, I guess, magic users. As the story develops, if you’re going to gain increased mastery of these skills,

[00:53:08]Cavan: [00:53:08] She is to a certain extent she’s exploring it more.

[00:53:12] And also the idea of genius that she’s always heard magic words in the back of her head, and she doesn’t know what they do until she says to them. And she, she instinctively knows which one to say, and she were only know, second. She said that what he’s going to do. And there is a reason. And again, this is a hope for, hopefully for people who are going to stick with us and.

[00:53:31] Well, hopefully we’ll be able to take this further as well. There’s a, a very there’s a, a very dark reason for all this. And that’s why she’s so fascinating to all the people who are now working with her because they pick her up as a tool. They pick her up to get near someone else. And then hex, especially realizes very, very early on what he’s actually got on his hands.

[00:53:53] You know, this is someone who. Who has abilities that are only seen every three generations, not alone, you know, once a generation and hex, all I would say is he’s been around long enough to remember the last time it happened. And he saw the fallout then. So it’s yeah, that’s okay. And part of our long game of what actually, actually Gina is and whether she knows, and I think the straight answer that is that she doesn’t, but she’s gonna find out.

[00:54:19] Jeff: [00:54:19] So when does issue five come out? You said,

[00:54:23]Cavan: [00:54:23] In December few time then we take a break for a few months and then issue six hits in March. And the trader become an hour into March as well for the first five issue. So you could pick up everything in one go, but obviously go and find the issues at the minute in comment stores have got amazing covers sort of covers by, by Karim.

[00:54:42] I’m sure you’re going to federal an hour. I’m a colorist Mike and I lovely sites. And, and yeah, and then hopefully we’ve got 10 issues guaranteed at the minute and hopefully there’ll be more.

[00:54:52] Jeff: [00:54:52] All right. That’s fantastic. Definitely one of our to our listeners definitely check out these issues.

[00:54:55] They were a lot of fun to read, including transforms back to the future and also shadow service. So check them out. The next issue is in December. Thank you so much, Kevin.

[00:55:04] Cavan: [00:55:04] Thanks for having me. It’s been great to have a

[00:55:06] Jeff: [00:55:06] charm in my defin pleasure.