Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness
Today we talk Doctor Strange 2 and if it was enough multiverse or too much madness.
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Doctor Strange 2 Review
Kenric: [00:00:00] All right, guys, welcome back to spoiler country. I’m of course kind Regan that right there is Mr. Horseley. Today we’re a little late as we are with everything
John: in our life.
No, we are on time because we are on time. Whenever we do it. That’s the right time to do it. That’s right.
Kenric: That’s right. Dr. Strange. And the multiverse of madness, but you all
John: miss? I, I just had to coach connecter what the name of the show was. You can say
Kenric: it. Right, right. Well, cause I always wanna say, cause I love the movie in the mouth of madness with yeah.
Sam, Neil, and directed by John Carpenter. Yeah. And I loved that movie, you know, and it was, it’s such a weird. Movie. And I, I was working at . I was working on Hollywood video in the nineties when it came out on video, I brought it home to watch it. And my sister, I came home like at cuz Hollywood video had closed really late.
And I came home like at two 30 in the morning and my sister was in my bed. Trisha was in my bed watching that movie. And then she goes, don’t leave the room. Don’t leave. If you have to stay. She was like stuck watching it couldn’t stop. It was kind of funny. So anyways, every time I say that, [00:01:00] I always think of that.
This movie came. March
John: go March. I don’t know,
Kenric: sometime somewhere around there. The spring of 20, 22. Yeah. And it did really well. In the theater. Yeah. And now it’s on streaming. You guys can check it out on Disney, plus if you have it. I saw it in the theater about two weeks after it came out. And then I’ve, swatched it twice now on Disney plus that, that gives an indication of how
John: I feel about it.
It came out in May 2nd, by the way. Oh,
Kenric: May 2nd. There you go. Yeah. And the throws
John: of spring, I went and saw with my mom for her. Nice her, her birthday’s May 3rd.
Kenric: Have you always been a doctor? Strange fan? Was that something that you read? No. You just knew who he was. Yeah. I mean, I have, I
John: have a tertiary knowledge of most Marvel characters from osmosis.
Don’t hear that enough. Yeah. I always, where I mispronounce this, so I say it fast, but no, I knew who he was. I didn’t really care for Dr. Strange in the comics. Yeah. I mean, it’s okay. I like some of the stuff you see him as a Dr. Fate rip. I do. They’re different.
Kenric: I know that [00:02:00] in a way, and they’re, they’re very
John: different, very different, but in a way, I see ’em as Dr.
Fate ripoff, even though there’s, there’s, there’s nothing really similar about ’em besides the name doctor, and they both do magic in some way. Yeah.
Kenric: I mean, I mean, wizards and and SORs have, have been around for thousands of years. Exactly, exactly. so it’s kind hard to go. That’s a ripoff. Yeah. I mean, I always love, I love Dr.
Fate. I’ve read like in the eighties, when the Dr. Was it volume 87, whatever volume it was. Right. I read a ton of those, you know, and I had Dr. Fate number one from like, was it 1985 or 87? Yeah, whenever it came out and I was super excited, cuz I didn’t know that he was an old ass character from the 1940s.
I thought he was. I thought he was new, cuz it was number one. yeah. Brand new
John: character, totally brand new character. And then
Kenric: I was like, Aw, not new even though, but I liked him. I liked the concept. I liked how it was the helmet and all that kind of stuff. I always knew who Dr. Strange was. I just never read the books.
I didn’t, it’s kind of weird. I don’t remember seeing them on the [00:03:00] shelf. I don’t remember seeing them readily available for me to, to, to, to read. Yeah.
John: So like when, in the eighties, Dr. Strange, wasn’t really a big deal in the nineties. Like there was a nineties, Dr. Strange, he came, came back and stuff, but like Dr.
Strange was really, if you look at the comics, like if you just go by what comics were published, he was big in the late sixties, early seventies, mid seventies. Like that’s when Dr. Strange book was out in strange tales was doing really well, all that kind of stuff. Right. But as far as Our era of comic books and your, your era is a little bit earlier than mine, but the kind of overlap.
He wasn’t very prominent out. I mean, he was, he was a part of midnight sons, I believe in some of
Kenric: the songs. I don’t remember seeing him in midnight sons at all.
John: maybe he wasn’t. I don’t know. Yeah. I just know in the nineties wasn’t the, there was, there was DRT comics out there, but I never read him. I didn’t care for him.
Kenric: it’s weird that the movies have really brought him forward. Yeah. Well, and there’s a dark strange movie from the seventies.
John: There is, and it is terribly fantastic.
Kenric: Yeah. Yeah. I it’s so bad. It’s good. It’s so bad. It’s good. [00:04:00] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Which is kinda weird. Cause I don’t think I even knew about that movie growing up.
Yeah. I wasn’t told. Yeah. Within the last five years that I even heard about it. Yeah. I mean, I might have felt commercials for it and not realized
John: it. One of the things that the MCU and Kevin faggy do really well is they take characters that most people don’t care about. Yeah. And make ’em good. You know,
Kenric: that’s because Marvel sold off all their cool characters to other companies.
John: Exactly. I mean, if you look at most characters in the MCU, They’re characters that weren’t selling well,
Kenric: yeah, Thor, Thor. I mean,
John: thre man, they’ve had fan bases since the sixties, but it’s a small fan base, not small, but it’s, it’s not, not as big as Spiderman and Xmen
Kenric: right. But it’s funny cuz it kind of goes off what we’re talking about the other day.
When, when I said, you know, I can understand people being like. You know, been waiting all these years for this, for this to happen. Yeah. But really that only correlates to like Spiderman and Xmen and, you know, Ironman, unless you were [00:05:00] older and, and it’s, and the fan bases was dwindling down significantly in the eighties.
Like if they stopped producing Thor and Ironman in the eighties. Yeah. I think there’d been a contingency of people. But it wouldn’t have been like this huge deal, right? It
John: wouldn’t wouldn’t have really been no, no. Well, the thing about the, those movies, and this is what I’ve said by as well, a very, very ly like, or vehemently or whatever that word I’m trying to say is for years, is that going back to like making changes for, from comics to source material, to movies?
Yeah. It’s easy to make changes to characters that aren’t nationally or worldwide beloved. Right. Like an Ironman or a captain America. Well, captain America is kind of a, he is love, but like a Thor or a, a doctor strange or anything, most characters in the MCU, black widow hotkey. Yeah. You can make changes even pretty big change to those characters and at work and people be okay with it, but you can’t make change big changes to like [00:06:00] Spiderman, Superman, Batman.
That’s where it. You got 80 years of history and you’re changing stuff in the wrong direction. Or even if you change it in the right direction. And it’s good, there’s gonna be a bigger pushback because there’s so much a much of a bigger fan base. But if you take a little smaller character, which is what the C has done, like medium, smaller character, like B level characters, well, you can argue that captain America and them are all A-listers, but not so much.
Like they’re not, they’re not Spiderman. Right? Well, they’re, A-listers
Kenric: now, right? They were A-listers because of the MCU.
John: They’re not the Xmen, they’re not Spiderman. They’re not fantastic Ford. You can’t make, you can make changes to them. And even though they’re some, some are small changes, some are pretty big changes.
Kenric: you just sound weird again? You’re scratching.
John: Well, I don’t know what it is. I don’t have to tell you. I apologize to
Kenric: everybody. It’s weird. I don’t know if it’s on my side or if it’s on your side, I have no idea.
John: I don’t know. It’s probably the cable I’m using, but, but if just basically things that you’re sharing, you can make changes to it.
And people one, most people don’t notice. If they do notice and if they do up it up, [00:07:00] they’re not gonna care
Kenric: so bad. What so bad? this sounds, yeah. You like, you can’t really understand what you’re saying. Oh, Jesus. Now it’s gone. I don’t know what’s going on.
John: I I’m not touching
Kenric: anything. It’s gotta be a cable.
Did you put a new cable in?
John: That was the same cables yesterday.
Kenric: What? I thought you were gonna put a new cable in you was like it’s over there. All
John: right, I’ll go grab a new cable.
Kenric: So about talking about Dr. Strange. Yeah. And the multiverse of madness we have, I, I feel like they finally had the Scarlet witch, like the Scarlet witch.
She was super powerful in it. She did some very crazy things. Yeah. Let’s under the possession of the dark hold. So is she redeemable?
John: Let’s answer that question later. Let’s Ooh, I want, I wanna start, I wanna start with the question of what, what didn’t you like about the movie first? What? Wasn’t
What? Wasn’t good. [00:08:00] That’s a hard question. I don’t, I don’t know. I, I guess I think for me is wasn’t really down with the, like the near the end when they all like the, all the dead souls, you know what I mean? Coming after. Hmm. Like cuz you, you had Lokey and I don’t remember them talking about the dead souls like that in Loki and time travel.
Yeah. You had the time traveling police force thing. I don’t remember that that might be wrong. So don’t, don’t quote me on that. I, I could be wrong. But the whole, like, like all of a sudden he’s getting ripped apart, then now he controls them, like, yeah. Basically in a snap of finger and then they’re flying over there and I just thought it kind of looked hokey, you know, his
John: hit me, his cap of souls.
Kenric: I just didn’t like it. I just didn’t look good. And then I didn’t think it looked good. And then it, I don’t think the special effects of it looked good is what I’m saying. Well, so you do better? No, not by any stretch. I, [00:09:00] you, you would see nylon rope if I was doing it. not even bridging wire nylon rope.
Yeah. And then Yeah, I think that was the only scene that I was just like, eh, but I did like the rest of it. I loved Wong in this movie.
John: Wong was fantastic in this. Yeah. Yeah.
Kenric: He was, he was really good. And, and I was bummed when I thought he died. Yeah. You gotta be kidding. Didn’t die that way. Yeah.
John: so what, I didn’t care for the movie.
I, I, I get what you’re saying there. I, I, I kinda like the, the, the Cape of souls thought it was kind of, it was corny. It was very Sam Ramy and I thought it was cool. Yeah, it just, I don’t know,
Kenric: man. I, I, it was just such a weird, it just happened too fast. Yeah. So what, my biggest, can I add one more thing?
Sure. I wish we had more time. And I wish they would’ve made instead of a movie, I felt like this should have been a show.
John: Oh, this and that, that, that right there leads into what my problem was. The movie. Yeah, my only real problem. I like the movie. I thought it was well done. I thought it was fun. My biggest problem with the movie is the fact [00:10:00] that it’s called the multiverse of madness.
It’s all about the multiverse. They introducing America Chavez who can literally open portals to other multiverses. Right. And they go to like
John: Like they hadn’t WTF, right? Like there’s the one scene where they’re falling through and it’s kind of cool when it goes, like the one that’s like the cartoon one, a bunch of other random ones you see like two seconds, which I’m sure there’s probably a YouTube show. That’s, that’s broken that down and makes speculation what all those multiverses were or whatever.
But ultimately it’s a movie about the multiverse with the multiverse, a multiverse traveling character that goes with three, what, three or four places. And that’s it. That’s all we get. Right. And this right here was the perfect venue to connect a lot of things or to do fan service or to just fucking play with it.
And they gave us, they did the Hollywood
Kenric: thing of Spiderman. Did a better job dealing with the multiverse.
John: Yeah. It’s just like, yeah, it did really. Yeah. But [00:11:00] it, it, it should have, I mean, this was the, this, this was the perfect way they could have. The cartoon one, like why didn’t they tie that to, to ed, to, to the Spiderman cartoon, just to, to spider averse.
Kenric: Oh, yeah. And with miles Morales. Yeah. Like if they’re gonna show
John: cartoon, why didn’t they just show or
Kenric: even Peter Parker and his amazing Spider-Man is amazing friends. Right?
John: Or why didn’t they show why, you know, why didn’t, they there’s a lot that they could have done could have the multiverse Spider-Man man.
Yeah. A lot of things, they could’ve done the multiverse and they just, just didn’t do it. Yeah. Obviously I can guarantee the reason was time. Right. They were doing a movie that it condense it down. Watch if they would’ve put this into a mini series, this movie was primed for a miniseries.
Kenric: Yeah. Well, it’s supposed to have a lot of.
Implications throughout the rest, you know? Yeah. It’s the first time you see Reed Richards, John Kosinski at Reed. Richards is perfect. Who apparently is not playing him in the movie. What, wait,
John: what? They, I read a report today saying that, that, that was just a fan service thing. They did. They hired him just for that.
And when in the coming Dr. Doom or FF movie they’re [00:12:00] working on, he’s not gonna be Reed Richards.
Kenric: Well, I’ll believe it when I see it. Yeah.
John: I think that’s a dumbass move, but
Kenric: yeah. Yeah. That’s way dumb. I mean, don’t, don’t do a Fran service. You know what I mean? Right. Won’t do that. That’s
John: worse. Like if you’re gonna make put ’em there, I don’t know.
Kenric: is that Monica Rambo? The
John: one girl. Yeah. Rambo. That
Kenric: was the same girl. No, I, I, yeah, but that’s that was the iteration of Monica Rambo or, yeah, I that’s Marvel. Yeah. She shouldn’t be dead. Like how does a statue falling uncap? I mean, I know it sounds fantastical, but how does a statue kill?
John: It doesn’t how does the statute kill somebody?
How does, how does the statute kill somebody who the other version of her threw through flew a spaceship? Yeah.
Kenric: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It’s not that, that didn’t make sense. And.
John: And go ahead and talk about it’s fantastic. And his desking, you like so much, dude. It was
Kenric: awesome. come on, he’s all flailed out.
And then he goes all to his head and it pops. I mean, come on. [00:13:00] That was pretty cool. It was pretty, but the thing is, is they’re fighting the Scarlet witch who bends and controls reality. Yeah. She, you know, and, and when we think about this is she, she, I mean, you could make an argument that she is the most powerful being in.
You know, except for the, maybe the one above all or whatever they call it. Yeah. Yeah. And even, you know, even that she can say no one above all mm-hmm like she did with no more mutants. Yeah. You know what I mean? So she’s super powerful and they did a pretty good job of making her really powerful, but not over powerful.
You know, even though she was
John: here, here’s my thing about that fight scene, right? Yeah. Between the two, the, all of them. Right. They introduce Reed Richers as the smartest man in the universe.
John: Or the world, whatever. Right. The world. Yeah, yeah. Whatever. It’s the world. Okay. Yeah. And they have in that same room, they’ve got black, bold Monica Rambo or captain Marvel, and they’ve got professor X and stuff like [00:14:00] that.
Right. And they’ve got captain Bri PE Carter, which is awesome to see her in live action. Right. Which I hope they bring her back is captain Briton. Cuz that was awesome. I was, it was awesome. I’ll give that in
Kenric: a second. Awesome. She cut in half too.
John: But if he’s smartest man in the world and they have all these other characters there, we can assume he’s dealt with magic before and then it’s the safest assumption she’s dealt with the magic user before, right?
Kenric: Dr. Strange.
John: Right. You, it, it’s very safe to assume that why would he being a character who is smart wish stretchy powers run into battle against a witch against a witch? Yeah. Like that’s out
Kenric: of character and yeah, maybe. And he’s,
John: I mean, he was probably the second weakest one in the room. And he died first or said, you know, black bull died, black bull died first,
Yeah. Black bolt dies first, but she says, what mouth . Yeah. And then he speaks, I mean, then he screams was like, what are you doing? right.
John: And it closes. That was pretty cool.
Kenric: Yeah. I mean the whole scene was pretty cool. I mean, she, it was cool kind of fun to see her really [00:15:00] let loose and. The whole doc professor X scene.
That was cool. Her and his, and, and he’s in her mind. Mm-hmm was done really, really well. And she was legit scary when she breaks his neck. Yeah. You know what I mean? Coming out of the fog like that, and it was like, oh,
John: but it’s, I, I questioned that scene. It was cool. It was, yeah, well done. But I questioned that scene because Charles Xavier is like the premier of tele, you know, tele yeah.
Right. Of, and he can, I mean, he’s economically, he’s, he’s controlled the minds of thousands of people at once, right? Yeah. Are we saying that to Scarlet, to witch? His mind is so powerful, even though it was taken over by the dark hole. So it’s not that powerful to be resist this kind of stuff. It’s so powerful that she can overpower a seasoned veteran of doing this Charles Xavier.
Kenric: apparently it is. I think it depends on, on level of expectation level of [00:16:00] his. Understanding of how powerful she actually is and not, you know what I mean? He was concentrating on saving the one within. Right, right. But he,
John: he also knows that she has just beaten captain or Mr. Fantastic. Captain Britain, captain Marvel.
Yeah. yeah. And black bolt, you know? Yeah. But he’s, he
Kenric: knows he he’s gonna try what he needs to try and just ended up failing on
John: that and it made, it made this seem kind of cold. It did kind of. It was cool to see ’em all there, but then like they killed. ’em all, you know? Yeah. Well, it makes me
Kenric: it’s something that she’s that powerful.
She killed all those people yet. She’s doesn’t she can’t kill. I don’t know if it is that she can’t kill Dr. Strange because it’s her, her friend. Yeah. Right. And they’re both from the same dimension. They have a lot of history together. Right though. I, you could argue that she doesn’t have a lot of history with Dr.
Stray and she has more history with the Avengers. Yeah. She has some. History with Dr. Strange. Yeah, just a little bit is a movie yeah, just one movie, two movies. So it’s but it’s but I wonder if you could say, okay, well she’s obviously [00:17:00] maybe holding back when she’s fighting him. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Cause she’s trying to be like, you need to understand what I’m doing, but you know, it was, it was, it was interesting. It was interesting. And I, I don’t know. I enjoyed it. I, I thought it was. There’s a part of me. I didn’t like her being the bad guy. Oh no. I wanted
John: to be the good guy, but big,
Kenric: bad. I thought it was gonna be something else.
John: one division set up to be the bad guy, you know, one
Kenric: division kind. I mean, you, she goes through that whole thing.
John: And then that last scene though, the last scene of, of one division sets her up
Kenric: to of her going through reading the dark hold. Yeah, I didn’t, I didn’t take it that the dark hold was going to infect her like that.
I just took it for her, trying to figure out a way to get her kids back. Yeah. You know what I
John: mean? Well, and so another question I have about that not a question, but comment there she’s, she’s the one who sends the demon or whatever, whatever the thing was through the multiverse to get American Chavez.
Right? Yeah. So if she’s strong enough dark [00:18:00] hole that she can send that through and she can. Do the whole like body walk thing where she can swap, she can go into the body of her dream, walking, dream, walking to another universe. What does she need America Chavez for? She can already send things through the multiverse.
She can put herself the multiverse into other, into this other, other thing. What’s, what’s the, I mean, I guess the point would be to get her physically from one university to the next university through the portal, but it was my understanding that she was sending these demons or monsters or whatever after.
Or would she activate those mantras in that universe? Just controlling ’em through the different multiverse. Like they never quite explained that like she can do things in the other multiverse, but then she wants to capture her character, go through multiverses, but she’s
Kenric: already doing that to the multiverse, you know?
Right, right. It’s kinda circular a little bit. It is a little singular. I mean, it’s, you have to have a little bit of leeway, you know what I mean? With something like this, it’s, it’s such a, when you think about what they’re trying to do and what they’re saying, and. In the [00:19:00] movie itself, it’s such a big enough movie where you have to have some leeway, you know, or you do a mini series,
John: do a mini series and give more time to explain things.
Kenric: It’s kind of a weird, there was a lot of weirdness in, in that movie, which I really, really enjoyed. What was your favorite scene? You think? My favorite scene?
John: Yeah. Oh God. It was probably the scene where she kills the, the Illuminati,
Kenric: the Illuminati. Yeah.
John: I mean, I know I bitched about it, whatever,
Kenric: but it was a cool scene.
It was cool. It was cool. It was visually really pleasing. Cause
John: you’re like Kazinski as captain or as, as Mr. Fantastic was really cool. Yeah. I really hope that they, I
Kenric: keep the, the rubber man thing, dude. It’s just so hokey.
John: It’ll never look. I see. I, I don’t even like this just
Kenric: doesn’t look cool. That’s the problem,
John: which is why they change MIS Marvel.
To not be that way. Cause, and the comics MIS Marvel is a stretchy person. Yeah. And, and takes form stuff. That’s why they change it to be more like, like green Leonard, pretty much making constructs. Yeah. That’s why she’s [00:20:00] changing the show. Cause you can’t make rubber look cool. Like,
Kenric: no, it looks terrible.
You watch it. You’re like, oh my God, this is just terrible. Yeah.
John: Yeah. yeah. It’s it’s it is done. That’s fine. I’m worried about it. I’m worried about a fantastic forum movie again, because it’s, it’s just, you can. It’s hard to make, make it look cool. And even all the ones they’ve done so far excited,
Kenric: the fantastic four is always weird cuz in the eighties grown up only the really old people were really into fantastic four.
Yeah. I don’t really care for it honestly. And even in the nineties, I think it was, I don’t know if any, but person my age that were into the fantastic. I only liked the cartoon and I was watching reruns. Yeah. And I liked the thing. That was it.
John: See, I think the character is like, the thing is cool. Johnny storm was pretty cool.
Invisible woman was pretty cool. Mr. Fantastic is interesting outside of the stretching essentially, cuz his, his, his inventions and his, that kind of stuff. Yeah. But I think I know they’re not gonna do it, but it would be [00:21:00] kind of cool if like they brought the fanic four in, but brought him in like, like through all this multiverse stuff, they’re there, but they’ve already like done the FF stuff.
Yeah. And now they’re just on their. Yeah. Like you can have like the thing off in something else you fantasy before, or the thing shows up in like a whole movie or something like that and like monster. Yeah. Johnny’s dorm shows up in Spiderman, you know, something like that. And it’s just like, that would be interesting, but they’re, I mean, they’re gonna make, I, they’re making a Dr.
Doom movie, which is been done three times now. Dr. Doom movie. Well, I mean, if Dr. Doom’s bit was in all three fantasy four movies as was like the main bad
Kenric: guy, who else would you have? I mean really when you think of it as a fantastic before and their, and their rogue gallery
John: in their first appearance, they fought a giant monster.
Kenric: Yeah. Right. But you know what I’m saying? I mean, who, I don’t, I
John: don’t read the, I don’t read. I say fighter. I don’t know any
Kenric: other characters. That’s
John: the pro that’s the point? The impossible man. There you go. That’s one.
Who the impossible man. [00:22:00] Okay. Screen guy. He’s basically the F for version of bat might or MRM Pitt. Oh yeah. Or is it, or is it possible? Is it it’s impossible, man. Something weird, stupid name? I don’t know. Okay.
Kenric: Fantastic. Fantastic for villains. Okay. Before we get off on a tangent. Dr. Strange. Yeah. In the multiverse madness.
It’s a fun movie. Go check it out. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed if you’re a fan of the MCU, you probably already watched it. Don’t you tell us what you think, what you love and what you hated about it and what could make it better. And do you agree? Should it be a miniseries? So they do more miniseries or do you wanna see more movies?
You know, and while you’re here, why not hit the little subscribe and the little notification, then you get a, you get to know when, when things are going on.
Yeah. We’re also on. Anywhere podcasts are heard. Yeah. So if you’re a fan of, of just getting in the car and listening, then you can download us on Google podcast, iTunes, Spotify, all those places we’re there.
John: [00:23:00] So we’re on Twitter. We’re on Instagram. We’re on
Kenric: are, we are on Twitter. We are on Twitter.