Michael Moorcock’s Multiverse: From Melniboné to Hollywood

Sumner welcomes the world’s greatest living fantasy author, Michael Moorcock, to Hard Agree for the first in an ongoing series of conversations about Michael’s life and work. In this debut episode, Sumner & Moorcock discuss Michael’s parents, his Dad’s regard for Arthur C Clarke, completing the latest Elric of Melniboné novel (due for release in Fall 2022), the beginnings of Jerry Cornelius, Michael’s great friendship with feminist author Andrea Dworkin – and they begin a discussion of Michael’s wild ride through Hollywood that will roll into our next episode.

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HA- Michael Moorkcock Interview

Andrew Sumner:  [00:00:00] Did they both get to see your

Michael Moorcock: success? Oh yeah. Yeah, they did. When, when it came out, when the first science fantasy magazine came out, I thought it, I think that was what, it was no names, the book version, it was a book version and, you know, you know, cause you do. And and I think I dedicated it to her too, you know, and all that. Anyway, she, she, she, she, I can remember it very clearly.

She was sitting in a chair, one side of the fire and I was sitting in the chair the other side and she, she picked up, oh, oh Mike. And she actually,

she said, I don’t know where he got it from. It’s not your dad.

She never read another word I ever wrote. But meanwhile, my dad. Who’s meticulously. Neat. We [00:01:00] had a shed, had a typical shed with little tins of stuff and tiny, you know, contains all neatly marked anyway. So it had pretty brought my books. He had it and I gave them to him sometimes. Yeah. But he had a stack of them like this beside his chair.

And he said, and each one had a slip of paper in it. He said, I got that far with that one. Got that. Couldn’t do that when I, I got, you know, but he said, why can’t you do borrow those? And I’d done some make derives Perez pastiches years ago. Mo Cain of old MERS and he loved them and he said, well, he’s not written them all in a few days.

so, so, so that was it. They never, they never anything I wrote.

Andrew Sumner: Wow. I mean, that is fascinating.

Michael Moorcock: I [00:02:00] mean, yeah, they were so proud of, well, my mother was, but that, I think if he was, I wouldn’t have known it. I’m very glad that he left because he was an extraordinarily conservative and dull man. I mean, he was a nice man.

You couldn’t say anything against him. But he was just bloody doll. He had, he had two interests which was motorbike, race racing, which he’d done when he was younger. And Oh, when off the truck, he liked watching off the clock, the world of ethics.

Andrew Sumner: I remember that

Michael Moorcock: until he found out that Arthur was gay, once he found out it was gay, she couldn’t watch it.

Watch it. I’m sorry. I can’t watch it. He’s a nice guy. He’s a really nice man. He was in love with this person for years. It was deep,  but my dad would wouldn’t have it. It was after that. No of the up. So I was pretty glad I didn’t, [00:03:00] I didn’t have to have the, I might never have done anything.

If he’d have been around my mother being, I was only, only child, my mother, child. Devoted to, to sun. I mean, I couldn’t have had a better, better, better, better upbringing, really. I mean, given

Andrew Sumner: everything. So you think that your mom that relationship with your mom and that upbringing with the spurts or your, your productivity and your great success and by the way, this is as good a moment as any to say welcome to our degree and I’m here with my friend and at the same time, the legendary author.

Michael Moorcock and it’s, it’s a, it’s a pleasure to chat, chat with you again, mate.

Michael Moorcock: I look

Andrew Sumner: forward to that actually.  I thought we could get into some things that we’ve had a bunch of chats recently for, for, for, for other reasons, but here on Hardegree degree, one of the things that I’d like to talk to you about is a bit more about your music [00:04:00] relationships and a bit more about Jerry Cornelius and the multi-verse actually, but before we get into that, I just want to, I just want to ask you you’ve just actually finished the new Elric.

Michael Moorcock: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Sumner: So, oh my, you know, Michael’s signature character perhaps is I’ll recommend their Bernay. Some of the greatest sword and sorcery novels you’re ever going to read. I’m biased because I love them, but I don’t know anybody who doesn’t love them. And what I’d love to know is the new novel. Where does that sit within the Pantheon of Elric?

Michael Moorcock: It’s just before Stonebridge the last book it set between the time that he meets Zara Zinnia is, is his second great love or, or, or anyway, and it’s between the, that, that parody and Zara’s in it basically says bugger off and get, get some things settled, be sorted out. So it goes off. I don’t want to, I don’t want to give it away [00:05:00] really because it’s a, there’s some sort of little,

yeah. He he goes up with, with moon, moon gum in the meantime has become The sort of president of a Republic in, in, in his, in his own land, you know, elsewhere, which nobody’s been to, nobody knows about, but this is become a sort of Democrat. So there’s a little bit of conversation. W Elric doesn’t, doesn’t see things in those terms, overseas is who he is and he just can’t get it.

He says, well, what’d you do with your slaves? And, you know, he’s got all these things,

you got all your work. And and so, so it, I mean, there’s a little bit of that I have, I’ve never done it, but that’s the, and then their, their adventures, which had mostly to do with dragons. It’s a very dragony book. It’s got, it’s got these three major [00:06:00] dragons and lots of little ones. It’s it’s so I think

Andrew Sumner: so you’re, you’re capturing, you’re capturing, you’re capturing the dragon zeitgeists

Michael Moorcock: well, it’s, it’s, it’s it’s to do with, with AllRegs.

We already know that Alaric and the foreigner that dragons are sort of related as it were. And this is, this is a very, very weird because in terms of I mean, if you think about it, it’s really weird, but I haven’t really gone into the details of it because it’s basically I sort of combination of bees and dragons and humans, it’s pretty mean I’m not sure it’s fiction or any other way that in fantasy, but anyway, so I think it’s a, I think it’s got enough, enough in it to, to, to make readers happy.


Andrew Sumner: That’s it. Yeah. Fantastic. What, what what’s do you have a title for the book or if

Michael Moorcock: you don’t release that yet? I think at the moment, it’s [00:07:00] just a minute is called the Citadel of lost Citadel of lost myths, forgotten myths, or forgotten myths is a bit, it’s a bit it’s a bit more I don’t know, fancy the most of the other titles, but it fits the, if it’s the book, so.

Andrew Sumner: Yeah. When, when, when, when, when is that going to be with this mic?


It’ll be next year, sometime

Michael Moorcock: 2022. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, which is a disappointment to me. But nevertheless, it it’ll be next

Andrew Sumner: year. I mean, yeah. It would have been nice to sit at the year, but for obvious reasons, but

Michael Moorcock: sorry, sorry, bringing up a really nice edition illustrated edition of, of all the books in three volumes, which would be nice.

And you know, they’re using, they’re using illustrations and so on, you know, so there’ll be a, there’ll be pretty nice additions, I think on who’s

Andrew Sumner: publishing that

Michael Moorcock: mic saga the, just [00:08:00] been taken over by, by hope by penguin. I think, I don’t know that they’re no longer. The independent corporation, they were in a bigger corporation.

Andrew Sumner: Well, finding independent book publishers is pretty difficult.

Michael Moorcock: These days is difficult, not prefer independent publishers. I mean, I prefer the relationship you got. It’d be, you could have a good relationship with an editor in a corporation, but the corporation is, you know, is, is the final word on it. And I, I really don’t much like that.

I’ve never I took all my books away from from he’s not a Harper Collins, but whoever they were then I just, I just said, like I said, if I was a director over and he fired around Christmas time, he had only all the reps. Come to a hotel in the Midlands and they thought it was going to be a, you know, a sort of, you know, just a discussion and so on at Christmas [00:09:00] time and maybe, you know, maybe it’s.

Yeah. And they got as it were pink slips, they got fired. And at that point it was the little people in that corporation. Never getting, when I say little, I mean, important, I would say important, but they, the people without any power who were getting, you were getting thrown out and I just went to see the director then at the, the firm.

I’m sorry, I can’t remember any names, but it’s terrible. But anyway, I went to see him and I said, look, if I was a director of your company, you know, this company, I would have to resign you know, just, just, just on what’s going on, you know, so. Equally because pub I still see publishes in the old way, which is the partnership between, between, between them, between me and them.

I mean, it’s an actual partnership and a proper partnership should be, and usually [00:10:00] is. And I, and I said, you know, if I was in that position, I’d have to resign some I’m just pulling my books up, which in fact you couldn’t technically do because, you know, they were all under contract for certain years and all the rest of it, but they let me have him back, but it was, but I remember standing in full of full of pyro.

I think it was where they were time. And I felt like I got two suitcases of stuff, you know, that was on the street.

pulled out. And then Antony oh God, Anthony. I forgotten his name actually anyway, was, was starting around. Yeah. And so, and I knew, and I said, do you want Joe to do a deal with all of these? I mean, there’s a lot of books and of course he said, yes, and being the cookie was I, I had trouble.

I mean, he’s one of those [00:11:00] people who you think. I know he’s a cook, but he wouldn’t do it to me. I’ve known him too long, you know, that sort of thing. And he does it. I mean, every bloody time, even when he sold the company, the, the the French Cub to a chef, I think that’s right. Even after we told the company that just Sue him because he lied to them.

I mean, that’s who he is, you know? I mean, he’s done it for years and years and it’s. Up to then he never actually screwed me. So, that went on for a long time, but, but they kept the books in print and the books are still in print. Thanks to Malcolm Edwards is really the hero of, of of science fiction and fantasy because he’s, he’s mad ambition, I think is to put everything [00:12:00] back into print, everything.

That’s that’s

Andrew Sumner: He’s done a really wonderful job. It’s Antony, Antony, cheetah. You were talking about the separately.

Michael Moorcock: He’s

Andrew Sumner: chasing by nature a little bit. Yeah, no, you did a great job on those additions of your books that they probably should really well.

Michael Moorcock: The other thing is, which is good is I had a certain amount of, of well, I’ve had, you know, they let me. More or less do what I wanted to do. So I was able to get the covers I wanted, I wanted the Manor and you’ve done a lot of covers for the Japanese books and, you know, nobody, nobody outside of Japan does it where it’s seeing them.

So, so I got a monitor to do a lot of Amani covers from the, from the original Japanese ones and some, some of them, well, some of them were original and I got my read to [00:13:00] do the rest of them. Who’s very good, but, but slow. He was either coming with me. The multi-verse comics, he did the what was it?

temporal detective section. And and I love the work he did. It was, I mean, it’s, it’s very peculiar, but it’s good, but he’s so damn. Lazy. I mean, it was nightmare working for him because all the work came in, everything else came in and he didn’t say, and you had to wait for it because obviously you had to wait for it.

And I, it was, he always got it in eventually, but it was, it was always, you know, nerves and, and wandering and all that.

Andrew Sumner: Yeah, of course. So something you just touched upon then of course, is is the multi-verse and I’d just like to use that as a kind of backdoor entry way into talking about your other signature character, [00:14:00] Jerry Cornelius.

So what was the, what was the Genesis of of Jericho nine it’s? How did Jerry  has come about?

Michael Moorcock: He came out well, Rick pretty much straight. I I found that I couldn’t do what I wanted to do with straight fantasy. I, I, you know, I liked writing it, but, and, and there are ideas and it, which is probably what gives it a bit of you know, a bit of substance.

It’s probably why it’s lasted. But I couldn’t say, I couldn’t say things about the modern world without it being, you know, buttering up the story. So I needed, I need something I need. What I needed was, was a technique and a method where I could deal with, with what I call hot material, the news of the day.

And, and, and present it and learn and write about it in fiction. And I, I, I want, I thought, well, Eric could do this. [00:15:00] So I wrote the first, the first Jerry Cornelius novel, which is far more conventional and anything else that with Jerry called Anita insulin. But at the time I was, I was being told, well, one person said the book was evil.

Andrew Sumner: It’s just the final program that we’re talking about,

Michael Moorcock: which is amazing. I would call it, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s just what it is. I, I suppose he’s got a little bit of bisexuality in it or something like that. I mean, But anyway, this, this person thought it was evil, another person, and I’d already written several, several books and published several books, but this person said, no, this is too, you, you, you you really got to learn to write and you know, this is rubbish, I’m sorry, Ted down.

And they went on that. I think it was a year or [00:16:00] two before. Clive, Alison who’s just starting a new, a new company, Allison and Busby, Margaret Busby. Who’s still with us, I think. And yeah, if they were kind of, sort of left wing, you know, and, and but they to do more black writers and so on because they were, they were very idealistic and I liked, and I got on very well with them and So they, they published the final program, I think first and then build man.

And, and at that time the books were being, just getting straight reviews and pretty good ones, too. I got very good press from fulfill demand from the religious press. I mean, it was, it was extraordinary. The, the everybody got it, you know, that it was, as it were an attack on religion, it was about, you know, it was about belief and faith and so on.

And so, you know, the, the Jewish Chronicle gave me a good review. The Catholic Herald gave me, I mean, I was, I was, it was wonderful. And that went on [00:17:00] for a while and, and Until, until the paperback publishers realize that the fantasy could be sold in paper, in hardback, as well as paperback. Yeah, no, it was writing in paperback in a kind of I suppose, a bubble, if you like, of a breeders perfectly happy in a kind of an anonymity, you know, I didn’t, I was sort of quite, quite all right with that.

I was getting well paid, you know? And so I, well, I wasn’t getting well paid at first, but as is normal. Yeah. It was well paid.

Then the paperback started to come out. This is just a sort of a publishing story. Really? And people got confused. They, they, you know, from, from getting these kind of brother respectful reviews as a literary writer, all the paperbacks came up you know, they started and they were incredibly successful at that time.

I mean, Smiths had two, [00:18:00] two, two tags, one was talking to him. The other was me. You know, I

Andrew Sumner: remember that era very, very clearly, by the way where so many of your books on the shelf in nice, nice matching additions.

Michael Moorcock: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know it was just it was, it was a, it was a sort of fairly nice environment, although I was having certainly domestic, you know,

But anyway and once, once the paperbacks were out, the reviews started changing. If I got any reviews at all because they suddenly saw me as this if you like Pope writer, because lose all these books coming up. And, and for a while I got pretty terrible reviews because they would sort of, I know it wouldn’t be caught me.

Karen would come in, let’s say, on the stack and they don’t, you know, they think, well, hell is this, you know, that this is, this is, this is rubbish because in those days people were like that. I mean, those are severe difference. Which I had been changed to [00:19:00] alter the worlds turned to sort of change that, that,

Andrew Sumner: that,

Michael Moorcock: yeah.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. So, so anyway, and they for, for, for quite a while, I was, I was kind of in, in a, in a wilderness where where the reviewers and some of them were concerned, but it was all right. I think, I think Peter Ackroyd before I knew him, we became friends later, but I think he was he was in the editor books, editor, the spectator, I think. And he read a piece about carb, which was baffling. You know, he was baffled, but couldn’t understand what it was. And he liked my work, you know? So this is the, this is the problem I start to get is that people, people didn’t know what I did.

They couldn’t identify me. First of all, I’m this. Kind of successful  [00:20:00] type, you know, writing a book a day, you know, which was sort of all right. You know, that was my, that was my image. And that went on for a while. And then, and then, then finally the last of the Jerry Cornelius books came up condition of music and the guardian

Andrew Sumner: that was about 1977.

Right. Mike,

Michael Moorcock: if I remember 77, yes. Yeah, yeah. Dorian had done well as well in the, within the science fiction world, you know? It, it got, it, got the whatever the Nebula and so, so, you know, it was that, that was, that was all right. And yeah, then con conditional music came out and. It got the prize and then things sort of turned in terms of, but that was partly because I was rushing better too.

But things tend about that time in terms of, and I became a different different image, which so you get has nothing to [00:21:00] do with me, but I started getting invited to I don’t know, push events. I mean there was one great event God is that it’s a university where, you know, which turns out all, all all our contemporary writers.

It has Angus Wilson started, I can’t remember its name. It was a program and Andrew Dawkins was on stage on the stage would be as well. And, and a couple of other people I knew slightly, but. One of whom I disliked intensely. At the time I think it was writing, he’s writing up for reviews and, and review for the, and he was working for the London.

What was it called? A London magazine. It was a literary magazine anyway, and and the night turned into this incredible, incredible event. And I could tell from the audience they could, they couldn’t read the audience at toll and they were talking. You know, to, to people who are very angry and upset David, [00:22:00] oh God, I can’t, I’m terrible at names, but he was, he was the boss of Cape at the time, there was a caper then I was being published by Kate and one of the writers of poet actually got on stage and said the usual thing, like, Well, I’m a man and I was, I can’t remember, but it was just sort of a standard statement that men had been making against feminists for years.

And you know, is a guy who never got it. Obviously never, never read his papers, but anyway, and he, he actually got, he couldn’t control the, the audience.  He was basically Andrew, his audience, my audience, and that was it. And the males are intersected some of them.

So, so Andrew and I were all right, but we are also the targets as it were about the people on stage. So the whole thing, I mean, it became a complete w where the guy from God, I can’t remember his name. He used to [00:23:00] work for the Telegraph as well. You’d sell it. I’m sure. Anyway, he, he he’s, he’s very prissy and he sort of, again, tries to sort of speak to the crowd or they burn off the stage you get, see is shoved off.

You can’t do it. The only two people who are okay on the stage of me and Andrea. And, and at that point I bonded with Andrea. I mean, I didn’t know who she was. I bet you it’s

supposed to be a very fierce feminist. She turned out to be a fierce feminist in public, but an extraordinary loving and, and, and loyal and beautiful woman, you know, with friendships with, with all kinds of people, you know, men and women, she wasn’t, she wasn’t sort of anything like the image that they’d made of her as this kind of classic.

Feminists, [00:24:00] but all that stuff. So, so I made a good, really, really wonderful friendship.

Andrew Sumner: We were just talking about Jerry Cornelius and there’s a couple of things I wanted to ask you about. What did you think of the final program movie?

Michael Moorcock: Well, I hate you. That

Andrew Sumner: might be the case.

Michael Moorcock: The director was absolutely mindless. I’m sorry to say. I mean, he had his ideas and he had, I mean, you know, he’d done the Dr. Bob’s films. I know there’s access to Bob’s films was clearly that they’d used every, every L British character actor that they could find. None of them put them in the movie and then just kill them off as it was.

I mean, everybody loves it. But its to do with the actors. It’s not to do with the director at all. I mean, it’s to do with these old, old guys who knew what they were doing, doing, doing their job. The [00:25:00] guy he’d worked as an art director on the Avengers and basically he was not direct. So he, you know, he, he, he did have some good ideas in, in that, in that direction, but he wanted to be in, I got mixed up this time, film directors.

Several times in my life, they want to be able to tell us they want to produce a movie that, you know, that is going to be one of those movies that that, that, that appear in you know, the cineastes.

Andrew Sumner: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear

Michael Moorcock: you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, when I was working with with, with Irvin Kershner anyway, he was doing, he’d done the star wars film.

And as I said at the time, my, my dog’s spot could have, could have made the star wars, film. People would’ve put him would have watched it. It was like that. And it wasn’t a very good movie. The second one, I didn’t think of, I mean, as a movie I did, I had to see it a lot because he sat [00:26:00] next to me telling me how brilliant he was.

On the shots of the movie to the right there. I just couldn’t stand the movie because I knew Lee bracket is a friend of mine died, had written the script and I knew damn well that if it played written the script, she, I mean, she worked without volts. Yeah. She was

Andrew Sumner: a great talent plea bracket, big sleep, amazing career.


Michael Moorcock: And she was a good friend of mine, right? Wing as hell. A good friend. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s hard. Sometimes people don’t have the same politics, but anyway I really liked it. And and, and that script had been turned down or something had gone wrong with it and they’d brought in somebody else.

And I though it was a mess, but I, they thought it was a work of genius because he’d done it. And he does a film called the luck of ginger, something or other, which had done very well. I can’t remember. [00:27:00] I’ve never seen it, but Jesse had a kind of at the, at that moment, he was, he was hot in Hollywood simply because he had a big hit at the usual, usual Hollywood procedures.

And so he could, you know, one point I didn’t have any paper and I was going to go buy a ream of paper, but I didn’t know where, you know, I was, I was in In that time. I was, yeah. At that time I was in west Hollywood and there weren’t many stations there. They were there a lot of boutiques. And so, so, and he said, oh, paper picks up the phone calls.

The studio tells him to get a ream of paper from you know, miles away the other side of Los Angeles and and to get it to me immediately. And so, so, so about an hour later, two hours later, this bream of paper is delivered from the studio. It’s [00:28:00] that kind of, I’m doing that kind of job. It’s uh, it’s it’s I’m working for, for, for a powerful person at that moment.

After that he just really terrible disappeared. So anyway, Yeah. And I’m getting expenses originally. They said, well, you know, just bring in your bills and you know, and we’ll, we’ll give you the expenses. And I said, well, I can’t, I’m gonna need money. At that point. I had no money. I was, I mean, I probably wouldn’t.

That was it. I went, no, that’s right. I flew on Concorde. It was wonderful. I went to I was in a terrible state really, but I had a, I had a good time while I was in that state. It was in those days, Concord. Wasn’t that expensive. I suppose they were trying to push it, but it didn’t cost, you know, it didn’t cost millions.

It cost hundreds. Yeah,

Andrew Sumner: it must’ve been an amazing experience flying on Concorde.

Michael Moorcock: Well, [00:29:00] it was it wasn’t it wasn’t. I thought to myself looking around at the other passengers, I wouldn’t want to die with these people

I could die with,

which is always my thought flow. I was never will before I get a little bit played. I mean, I’ve got over any kind of nerves it’s but I still love the habits, but oh, well you better write a will. So anyway yeah, I was in Hollywood

Andrew Sumner: and that was working with Irvin Kirsten when you’re in office.

Michael Moorcock: Yeah, it was, it was weird because I wrote a whole book about it.

Which, which actually. Nobody’s seen, it’s a strange thing because it was a great large size book with beautiful illustrations called letters from [00:30:00] Hollywood, because before I left, Jimmy Bard asked me he said, yeah, just, just write some letters, do some traveling for me. He was a terrible pastor. He never went anywhere.

And yeah, it made, it actually made a virtue of the suburbs of living in this little house in Shepparton. I mean, it was, it was it was genius. We’ll take whatever, you know, whatever it gets as it were. And he did. But anyway, he said, he said, right? Yeah. Just, just, just drop me a few letters, say, but it’s like, so did I, I, I started writing letters about first of all, but when I was living in north Hollywood these are

Andrew Sumner: letters you write to JG Ballard,

Michael Moorcock: right?

Yes. Yeah. Well, this

Andrew Sumner: book, by the way, anybody listening to this really wants to check this out, because I think as you’ve, as you’ve alluded to Mike, this book’s a real hidden gem, particularly if you’re a fan of your writing and you’re a fan of your perspective and you’re a fan of Hollywood and, you know, I was a movie [00:31:00] journalist, as you know, I’ve always loved.

I’ve always loved that book.

Michael Moorcock: Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s, I love it as it were too, but the, the, and so did the publisher. You can, you, you know, you can tell from the, from the, from the production, it wasn’t, it wasn’t it wasn’t. No, it wasn’t just thrown out. It was a really well, well done book actually. I’ve got the covers somewhere of the original 11 days.

They, they, they changed the the jacket. It was, Mike was my ex name. The guy illustrated it. Michael Foreman. Microphone. Yeah. Yeah. And, and he, he’d actually been, you know, he’d been to Hollywood and made some of the drawings and stuff he’d already done. But others were stuck for the book and it’s just great.

And I really wanted the book to come out with his illustrations, which is why the book really is never a pit because Ryan we’re going to do it. And, but I said you know, you’re going to do it with the illustrations because I [00:32:00] felt it, you know, the illustrations part of it. Well done. Yeah. Yeah.

And originally I’d written them and Jimmy had published them in a literary magazine. And again, it gives it an a, I can’t remember the name of the damn I’m terrible. I’m proper names. I don’t know. I can upgrade on spelling. It wasn’t comes to proper names. I’m just terrible. Anyway. Hell’s the name of the magazine or it’ll come up?

He he he published, he used the literary editor of the, the, well, the magazine and that’s where they first appeared some of them. And then I sort of, I rewrote them a little bit to make them a little bit more accessible as it were. And and I left out the cocaine as well

Andrew Sumner: surely this, this book is, this book is begging for news. Well,

Michael Moorcock: it is, it is a bit, but because I’m also writing in the whispering swarm and the [00:33:00] words of Albion, the, the so far two books, which are autobiographical and fantasies and the new autobiography, and the second book is absolutely is as honest as I can be.

Fantastic. So there’ll be stuff like that, probably in the third book, which gets closer to the Hollywood period, but I wouldn’t write much about it because. Let us Mollywood already exists. Does most of the job I would like it to come out sometime. It’s a oddly, they publish, they published a huge edition.

I mean, they published really thousands of copies and America would not take it. You York is very Snuffy about Hollywood. I mean, this is the truth, as you probably know, it’s, it’s a weird thing. And how are you and how you would want, have anything to do with, with, you know, New York [00:34:00] as it were. And so that, and here I am with a book, which, which is, which loves Los Angeles.

It’s just, you know, there’s a, it’s a, it’s a fan to Los Angeles. I love Los Angeles. I don’t know about you, but it’s just, you know, it’s in my blood,

Andrew Sumner: For sure. I feel the same way, whether it’s going to angel this flight, whether it’s going to the Bradbury building or whether it’s going to Pasadena. I love all of those places.

Michael Moorcock: Yeah. We nearly, we ne we nearly got an apartment in that apartment complex where Marilyn Monroe was. I can’t remember. It’s a beautiful, it’s a little, it’s a little village. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen it. Like a, like a little Fantasy village really from, you know, from fantasy hoofy. But it’s small.

You forget how small as people were, where we came in and the landlady, she, she was very nice and so welcoming the flats. And we, we really did want to [00:35:00] live there because it wasn’t that expensive. And it was, you know, it was, it was where we wanted to live in the area, so we would do it and We got, we got in there and we’d ducking all the time.

Even it’s like, you know, it’s like a Medi Eagle. I have an old coffee  which knocked me out, actually not yet. One day, did you exit the door? So, so, so it was, we just couldn’t do it, you know, unfortunately it was like, you know, little people’s a little fairy vintage, and you just forget when you, how tiny most actors are.

Yeah. My, my theory about film actors particularly is it their project because they’ve always had to project, they’ve always had to kind of look up, but if they want to get anything, they’ve got a, they’ve got to really, you know, really present themselves so they can do this. They get this on. You go to some [00:36:00] camera and they’re really doing a great job, you know, they’re good at it.

But, but, but when you look at the the the person beside that said the dog, you’ve got an idea that these are all much kids, you know, you’re afraid it’s gonna die. You know, he’s gonna die. He’s going to die. If you actually saw the thing in perspective, you’d see all these tiny people,

like a bunch of bells. It’d be nice. Really?

Andrew Sumner: So despite your love of Hollywood, it’ll like your love of movies and whatnot. Have you ever had, or any of the film projects you’ve been attached to whether they happened or not? Are they, are there any of them that you particularly fond of?

Michael Moorcock: Well, I did I did the land that time forgot? Yes. With, with with Jim Cortland, Jim, Jim has already broken it down. He was going to do a [00:37:00] comic of it. So he, he just broke it down again and I wrote the script. Yeah. And what had happened was with the final program I’ve been very disappointed in, in the script.

First of all my, a friend of mine had asked to do it and I sort of said, yes, and use a speed freak. I mean, he was actually using injecting method and method method, and that’s pretty heavy. Yeah. And he, he got himself, a suite at the supply, which he couldn’t pay for. And it was completely crazy decided that that the final program was actually about her, but Hoover, the FBI guy.

Yeah. Yeah. And he And the script was just a kind of frog of nonsense. I mean, he’d just gone crazy Rome, we’re going to save it and survive. It was just, it was, it was sort of a sort of nightmare. [00:38:00] So the whole, the whole, the final program was finally taken over by, by the guy who shot it, whose name I’ve also forgotten.

Anyway it’s all written down somewhere. And he was, he was, he had done, he had had success with deducts fives films. So he he did a script which was not. Very good. It was it, it had a huge number of reaction shots, which, you know, I don’t know if, I mean, you know, movers better than I do.

But Wednesday he says, this is a bad deal. You don’t have somebody else saying, you’re saying. Oh, yes. It’s about you don’t have people react to you in other words to everything because it slows everything down. I mean, we know it, we know, we know all this stuff, it should move. He just, he just couldn’t.

He was, he was a good art director and some of the, some of the scenes are good. But he just didn’t know what he was up to. He wanted Billy holiday for the [00:39:00] soundtrack. I mean, this is, this is this is a book that was written basically. In rejection of, of all of that. None of which I disliked, but it was time, you know, we were doing other stuff.

We weren’t doing that kind of stuff because

Andrew Sumner: did you originally want Paul Quinn to do the soundtrack on the

Michael Moorcock: moon? Well, I did, but when hoping came to the studio, it was very funny. Film up in new Orleans, a little stage in a, in a big studio and They started. I mean, and and they actually, the crew was kind of forced back

when hope is started up. And somebody said, could you turn it down a bit loud? And Dave said, We are turned down, which he,

and he didn’t, you know, they hated Hawk when they, well, they hated everything about my lifestyle as it were and friends, because I would turn up, I had [00:40:00] a huge, huge car at times I could pack loads of bets and when, when we got the studio, so they could have a bit of fun, look at it, have a free meal too. They, they obviously, they didn’t like that either, you know, is or all of, you know, when they hate you, they actually hate you.

Well, I

Andrew Sumner: th I think that’s I’ve made a note of where we are with that, and I would love to hear the full form version of that. And I’ll set up, I’ll set up a part two with Linda. That’d be

Michael Moorcock: awesome. All right,

Andrew Sumner: mate, it’s great to chat to you as always. I look forward to doing it again soon.

Michael Moorcock: Okay. Much cheered up from this morning.

Well, not this morning, but itself to new feeling dreadful and I’m feeling much better now, properly fuel transport in half an hour, but I’ve enjoyed this.

Andrew Sumner: Hi, I’ve enjoyed this chat as always mate. And I look forward to doing another one soon.


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