Michael Matthews – Love and Monsters!

Michael Matthews Interview

 

[00:00:00] Jeff: [00:00:00] Hello listeners, a sport in our country today on the show we had the fantastic director and writer, Mr. Michael Matthews. How’s it going, sir?

[00:00:08] Michael Matthews: [00:00:08] Hey, Jeff. Thanks for having

[00:00:09] Jeff: [00:00:09] me. Oh, it’s definitely my pleasure. You make fantastic movies. I really loved a lot. You’re a loving monsters movie.

[00:00:15] Michael Matthews: [00:00:15] Yeah. Thank you. Awesome.

[00:00:17] Jeff: [00:00:17] Now you currently live in South in South Africa, which for a lot of our listeners who are in the United States. That must seem for us like a very far away place. Well how does that impact you as a writer and a director living in South Africa?

[00:00:34]Michael Matthews: [00:00:34] It’s quite a big question. I think it D I think for the stuff I want to do, I’ve always wanted to kind of work towards doing it’s tricky just because you know, there’s, there’s a lot of movies that get shot here that are, you know, big American things will basically put it this way, like for an international audience and like entertainment films.

[00:00:53] And there’s always, like, let’s say like maybe two, and then some years there’s like five that are, that are pretty big ones, you know?  But so the industry exists and that sort of stuff for shooting and the facilities and that kind of thing. But in terms of filmmakers and actual, you know, writers and people getting projects off the ground, the industry’s much more based on, on If stuff for the local market, unless it’s for film festivals, you know, for more like an art audience to a degree it’s, it’s, it’s sort of low budget, local, South African film.

[00:01:25] So it’s quite hard to find another filmmaker or producer that’s done this kind of jump or this journey and has. I’ve done bigger entertaining films. So in that way, it’s tricky. It’s sort of like an unknown for me for the last I was sort of I’m 36 37 now. Yeah. I started you know, trying to make, get into film from about when I was 20.

[00:01:46] So it’s taking, you know, a good 15, 16 years to figure it out. And at the same time, you know, hard to know through that whole story. Period until I got onto this last form, which is the first, you know, studio movie hard to know how that jump would work out if a real workout any of that sort of stuff just had to take it like one notch of the ladder at a time, you know,

[00:02:10] Jeff: [00:02:10] did you find it difficult to maintain your voice when you moved over to the, the, the, your first Hollywood picture?

[00:02:21] Michael Matthews: [00:02:21] Yeah, I don’t think so. You know, in a way I’m still finding my own voice. So it’s again, that’s a, quite a tricky one, but it’s a great question. I don’t, there were a lot of times during it where I was trying to do things and leaning a little bit outside of the comfort zone of the studio and the producers.

[00:02:38]But at the same time, I kind of knew the box that I was in and what I was trying to do. And. I wasn’t. I was trying to make sure I’m making a film for, you know, like the 15 year old version of myself, to be honest, like the person who loved like would like thought Jurassic park was amazing when I was young or like back to the future or, you know, Goonies or ITI or any of those that sort of space was my, you know, between age eight and like 13 where the movies that were like my favorite Indiana Jones, that sort of stuff.

[00:03:09] So I was really trying to make a movie for that. Person, you know, that kind of audience. So in a way it’s like, you know, I’m not trying to push or test too many boundaries that are tricky to digest or anything with a movie like this. So you know, I think overall it was not it was good. I think people often, also the studios are looking for voices that are just a little bit different.

[00:03:30] Like the flavor feels a little different, you know? So it was, it was good. Yeah, you definitely

[00:03:35] Jeff: [00:03:35] mentioned two of my favorite movies of all time dressing park is definitely one of my favorite movies of all time. I still remember sitting in theaters as a 13 year old watching that movie for the first time.

[00:03:44] It was amazing.

[00:03:46] Michael Matthews: [00:03:46] Yeah, it was incredible. I think I was nine or 10 and that I’ll go to say that was probably the, the life-changing one for me that I didn’t know at the time, but that would, I kind of blew my mind that like this was existed and it was so overwhelmingly amazing, you know? For sure. What, what did it,

[00:04:01] Jeff: [00:04:01] what blew your mind the most?

[00:04:02] Do you think it was, was it the special effects? Was it the, the the photography done with Spielberg and the camera

[00:04:08] Michael Matthews: [00:04:08] which has grabbed you. I, I mean, for sure, the dinosaurs, that the fact that it just at the, especially at that age, it just felt completely like this is what it would be to be watching these dinosaurs.

[00:04:20] For real, there was no, there was no filter there that you build as you get older where you kind of like, well, it’s a movie. And I wonder if that did look like this or, you know, I can sort of see a flow, they, or they, or, you know, you’re not, you’re not critical about anything. You’re just kind of absorbing it.

[00:04:34] So for sure there was that That was there. And then I think later on, I know also the music, you know, that sort of thing, just the overall feeling, the Spielberg, like quality of it, that it has like a. Such a heart to it and like a wholesomeness to it. And, and then like that sweeping sort of, or an adventure sort of elevated feeling.

[00:04:54] The first CD I ever bought was a good, it was about a year or two later. It was John Williams compilation. When I was like 10, I think, and I had this, got the CD player in my room and I was like, that’s the CDO on a headlight? It had the Jurassic park and had jaws. It had star Wars, Indiana Jones, all these things.

[00:05:12] And even then I like hadn’t worked it up, but the music was doing a lot for me, you know? And then looking back, like you just have to hear a piece of that music and stuff, and it just brings back a lot of those feelings. Eh, th th there’s definitely, it was a

[00:05:25] Jeff: [00:05:25] magical aspect to that movie. And I said, well, one of my favorite highlights of my life was I was able to get an autograph because he went to a convention that was nearby.

[00:05:33] Great moment. I said it was a great movie. Did you want to become a director from that Mo wanting to

[00:05:40] Michael Matthews: [00:05:40] March in that movie? No. I mean, again, being sold in South Africa, not really being a part of, you know, I didn’t have no family or anything like that in the, in the film industry, you know I didn’t grow up with, with an access in that way where I knew how to do that or someone who I knew who had done that.

[00:05:58] And so it just seemed like quite a distant thing being in a different country. And then I sort of, when I was going to finishing school and deciding what to do, I was a little bit more focused on photography. Even though I wasn’t doing that much with it, to be honest, I was hardly doing anything. I just wanted to get out and just, I don’t know what I was doing at that at like 18 or 19, but I was always had this fixation on movies and loved movies, but it seems like a bit of a not realistic goal.

[00:06:27]But then I managed to get into a film school, you know, kind of a mid. A decent level of film school in South Africa. And, and that was my way in, I sort of thought out do cinematography and, and focus on that. Cause it was a craft. I felt like I could just get really good at, but then after a year or so of being there, I started realizing like, I can’t also can’t do great cinematography.

[00:06:48] Without working for someone who’s making something really good. Like it’s really hard to just try and shoot good stuff with art, having something that you feel is good to shoot, you know, so then that’s what sort of led me into trying, directing. And then from there, I just sort of kept going more and more in Intuit and got more and more confident in it.

[00:07:08] And I sort of went across that way. And even then when I did study for three years sort of. You know, I would keep asking people in the industry, like, how do you, like, besides getting into, trying to direct some TV commercials and stuff, like, is there a way to get into the feature side of things and how do I do it?

[00:07:26] You know, I couldn’t, I couldn’t quite imagine the jump to the us and, and figuring all that out. It just seemed a bit. Like too much of a stretch to think. Okay. But like, what do I go there? Try and get part-time work. Be in Hollywood maybe and figure out what to do. It just seemed like it was probably not going to work out.

[00:07:42]So it was, it took a while to sort of get the confidence of going, I’m just going to do this until it works out. You know?

[00:07:49] Jeff: [00:07:49] So what kind of misconception misconceptions do you think people out West may have about the film industry of South Africa

[00:07:59] Michael Matthews: [00:07:59] and. Well, I think, you know, for sure the, the actual quality of what gets shot here and stuff, you know, the shot that first mad max, a whole lot of it here.

[00:08:11]Things like the last two murder or the last James, this James Bond movie that still hasn’t come out. They’re shot quite a lot here. There’s always like a few big movies every year that shoot. So the actual level of production and studios and things that are here and the facilities and people accrue and all that is really good.

[00:08:28]So people probably don’t quite realize that, but the, you know, the business side of it is what’s tricky. I mean, there’s just not an appetite internationally, really for South African content on an entertainment level, but it is picking up quite I myself, over the last 10 years. It’s it’s noticeably been, you know, you’ve got a movie here and there and a series Netflix, you know, and then.

[00:08:51] There are people internationally do pick up on. So I feel like the people are finding more of an interest in African things. But it is, it’s like a tricky to get that, you know, it’s not easy getting people out of their comfort zones to watch different things. But I’m not sure what else misconception wise people might have.

[00:09:09] Jeff: [00:09:09] You’ve had amazing success already as a director in movies. And in 2017, you directed the movie. I might get to pronounce it wrong. Five fingers for the Marseilles, microsite, the Silas

[00:09:21] Michael Matthews: [00:09:21] and my PSI, or some people say it’s the, it’s the, the town in France. I think people say Maasais or Mount Sinai.

[00:09:29] Yeah. So,

[00:09:30] Jeff: [00:09:30] so how, how should I pronounce it for, for this, for the, for the interview?

[00:09:34]Michael Matthews: [00:09:34] I would say, Maceys okay. So

[00:09:37] Jeff: [00:09:37] in 2017, you directed five fingers for Marsay and that movie won the best picture award for the 14th in the 14th Africa, Africa movie Academy awards for best dome, like I said how did that win open doors for you later?

[00:09:50]Michael Matthews: [00:09:50] I think, I mean that one specifically, not too much, unfortunately again, like if there’s not enough eyes on African things, but it definitely, you know, helps any, any awards and things that you go through. Definitely make people take you a bit more seriously. But I’d say the best thing. About the phone.

[00:10:08] I mean, the best things that came out of it was that we went to it premiered in Toronto and got a really great feedback and great reviews. And then it played at the London BFI festival and B song and fantastic Fest and just some really cool festivals. And each one of those are quite special and do a lot.

[00:10:28] And I say we, cause it was really myself and Shawn Drummond. Who’s a partner of the company having South Africa who was the writer on the project and I was the director and we worked many years together still working together. So I would say the festival run was probably one of the main things that was really great about just seeing audiences here and reviews and they kind of feedback.

[00:10:50] And then I got a lot of notice from, from that, you know, Well,

[00:10:55]Jeff: [00:10:55] The movie five fingers for my site is available right now on Amazon prime. And it’s described as an African Western, which I’d never heard of it before. How did you transcribe the Western genre into the African setting and which essentially to like the Western film did you carry over into this

[00:11:13] Michael Matthews: [00:11:13] movie?

[00:11:15]So we, after I finished film school I’d already partnered with this the rider, Sean Drummond asking Mark, and we were looking for something interesting to do. We’d done a short, short form together. And we, we went into this whole thing was a couple of different projects. One was a big kind of apocalyptic, Greek mythology, inspired, serial killer.

[00:11:36] Movie that was, it’s hard to explain. It was almost like it was almost like a army of darkness meet something more serious, like seven or something. Yeah, it was cool, but it was just so big and like dark and weird. And we try to make that for a couple of years. And it didn’t just. Didn’t we nearly thought we did and we didn’t and we had producers involved and then it didn’t work on it.

[00:12:02] It was our initial learning curve of like you don’t, you know, as a first time me, you don’t try and make something that big and something so difficult to make as well. The combo was not didn’t work for us. But then we were really trying to look and think, well, we like genre and we like elevated cinema.

[00:12:18] You know, we didn’t want to do something too too personal and too small. Just for a film festival kind of audience would try to, we were trying to like bridge that gap of going, what are we, what feels culturally as a South African authentic and honest and could be really have something to say and feel like it’s, it’s interesting on that point of view as being like an authentic non-English Sioux to cross modern day African film.

[00:12:45]But then. We had this wasteland thing on it that sort of gave us the genre to it, which we like and kind of elevated it. And it was really just a lot of the classic archetypes. Of of what make waste feel like a waste. And also the setting, to be honest, we drove for like a month, every day around the country trying different towns and things.

[00:13:04] When we found this perfect place to sort of set the phone once we had the bones of it, but we didn’t didn’t even have the script and then took photographs. You know, it was far away from, from, I live in Cape town. It was like 11 hour drive from Cape town. I was really in the middle of South Africa and we, we wrote the script or Sean wrote the script based on the actual, all the things we found, all these locations and the ideas, and then also some sort of actual social issues.

[00:13:29] We still within the town and things that felt quite real and relevant. And then. It took seven or eight years to get the money and finally make it every year we thought we were going to make it. And then we couldn’t, you know, we were partnered up with two America, two amazing producers you’re on, Schwarzman and as good as saying from the U S finally, and they also helped get the money together.

[00:13:49]Anyway, I’m going on a bit of a ramble, but the archetypes of the Western was really you know, the small town setting. The, the intro of it for two degree plate is quite long, like 10, 15 minute section of these kids during the late eighties when they are all about 13 to 15 years old. And they’re under oppression of apartheid and the South African Afrikaans police.

[00:14:13] And they there’s this sort of revolution taking place and they’re trying to do there, but kind of innocently and. As a little gang at that age. And one of the more violent, angry kids who’s a little bit more about the fact in the cause ends up killing a cop, killing a couple of cops. And he, he then runs, he like runs away from this town and becomes a hardened criminal in this.

[00:14:38] We all sort of jumped and we jumped 20 years later. And now he’s a 35, five-year-old hardened, rough kind of outlaw type figure, leaving the prison in Johannesburg where he’s like raised himself on the streets and he’s trying to return to his hometown and where everything’s changed. And now it’s a new South Africa and it’s not their product regime anymore.

[00:14:57] It’s like, You know, a and C and it’s a different, it’s like a different new frontier too, is the way we kind of saw it. You know, it’s like always this progressive change on the way in westerns where like, there’s the trains coming or the towns being built or the, these new thing foreigners are coming or whatever it might be.

[00:15:14] And and then he goes back and kind of stays under cover no one knowing who he is. And he goes to the local by the Tavern as saloon, basically, and start seeing, noticing people that he knew when he was younger, but they don’t recognize them. And. What you learn is his original kind of group. They called themselves the five fingers that one’s become the mayor.

[00:15:33] One’s a police chief, one’s the pastor of the church. One runs the Tevin. And and so that’s all those sorts of archetypical things are quite waist and, and, and yeah. Everything seems to have changed. And then after a few days of him trying to lay low, he starts realizing there’s a different type of corruption and things going on in the time.

[00:15:50] These backend deals and these sort of outlaw bandit type people coming from this small country just central in South Africa called SU LASU too. And this stuff’s old, roughly, you know, it’s heightened, but it’s based on kind of some real stuff, but they come across the border and they’re sort of like dominating and committing crimes within this town.

[00:16:10] And the mayor has a bit of a deal going on and, and then our hero kind of slowly gets sucked into this and has to like do the right thing and form a new team. The old N some new people we’ve met in the town. And so that’s kind of the long version of, but you can, as I talk through it, you can sort of hear why it’s a Western.

[00:16:26]Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

[00:16:27] Jeff: [00:16:27] it’s an actually gorgeous looking movie. I was able to watch it in preparation for the interview. And I mean, the, the, the, the photography is absolutely gorgeous. I mean, the settings, the, how you filmed it, it was amazing.

[00:16:42] Michael Matthews: [00:16:42] Yeah, thanks, man. Yeah, it was we really wanted it to feel quite cinematic.

[00:16:46] Yeah. I love the music as well. And then just the overall tone. It was a unique coming together of ideas to feel like this Western thing, but like a South African version. And yeah, it did well, so, and like, you know, super happy that it’s out there and received and it kind of keeps new people keep finding it, you know?

[00:17:04] So it’s really cool. Yeah. And. I

[00:17:07] Jeff: [00:17:07] think it’s kind of interesting that your current move, which we’ll we’ll, we’ll come back to Levin monsters does. I think it’s so good that I think it does encourage people who may not have been familiar with the earlier movies to go back and revisit them. And you can almost see you can see the connection between the movies as well.

[00:17:25] And I think it’s, like I said five fingers from Messiah. I think it was was fantastic to revisit. I did notice that subtitle, is it ever going to be dubbed as well?

[00:17:34]Michael Matthews: [00:17:34] I think they did, but I’m not sure in America though, they’ve dumped it in like all the European languages and stuff, but I don’t know if they did it in the U S I would say it’s probably not.

[00:17:45] I don’t know if it would be as cool watching it. Do you know? Yeah,

[00:17:51] Jeff: [00:17:51] no worries. I also I was looking at your at your homepage on your website and you put on a quote from the movie, there will be blood, which says and my straw reaches across the room and starts drinking your milkshake. I drink your milk shake.

[00:18:02] I drink it up. What does that mean to you? And why was it important enough to be right on your. Well,

[00:18:09] Michael Matthews: [00:18:09] I guess I just probably it’s definitely, it could be my favorite movie, but it’s definitely top five was a, you know I just loved the film and that’s like one of my favorite moments from it. And it’s just an absurd enough like quote to put there that I thought only people who are like interested in movies will know what that’s about.

[00:18:27]But that’s the only real reason there’s no deeper meaning.

[00:18:32] Jeff: [00:18:32] Well, like I said it, it was fun going through the webpage and look at some of the other things that you’ve done such as a, a short film that you directed called apocalypse now, now, which once again, I saw the clip, it’s a fantastic clip from it which also won the 12th.

[00:18:47]And South African film and television award which, and which is no, it wasn’t a great clip, but it does kind of show that whatever you do award seem to like follow you around wherever you go. Like everything you feel just like, Hey, you won best picture. Hey, you won best short film. I mean, how, how does that, do you, does it just fill you to like the brim of confidence that everything you do seems to be just praised by everybody?

[00:19:11]Michael Matthews: [00:19:11] No, definitely not. I mean I think, you know, there’s so many different awards and there’s so many different things out there. I, I can’t, I must say I don’t feel like I’ve done anything. That’s really been in like the high tier of awards, you know? But I mean, it’s really great. Like to have stuff recognized makes it feel like, okay, it’s it, people get it, you know?

[00:19:29]And people like, think it’s good, but I think for me, audiences probably more. Important to a degree, you know, like just people, cause there’s often things that get like high, critical crime that get, like, not that they’re not good, but that’s just that they don’t connect to audiences. You know? So they, for a very specific group of people that often are within an intellectual space that all appreciate the work.

[00:19:55] It’s sort of like high art to a degree that’s not for. Kind of a bigger audiences. There’s something there where I’m not like, not so sure personally, like to go too far down that road. Cause it just feels a bit like you sort of applauding each other, you know, people within like a wealthy, high educated like we really understand everything going on in the world kind of space.

[00:20:16]Whereas the audience and just movies getting up there and getting seen and getting loved. And then, and then actual fan or bigger groups of people finding value within movies. Like that’s, to me, that’s probably the, the most important space, you know? So, yeah. So

[00:20:32] Jeff: [00:20:32] when you’re making movies, do you think the movie is meant to serve the audience is meant to serve the critic or is it meant to serve the arts or yourself?

[00:20:42]Michael Matthews: [00:20:42] It’s definitely not to serve me, you know? It’s I don’t think critic critic has hopefully audience to, you know it’s a tricky one. I think it’s about slightly challenging and our audience and serving an audience, you know And I think if you do that well, if, if the heart of the thematics in the phone or some sort of honesty or something personal in it resonates, and the works, I feel like in general, the critics will, will appreciate that as well.

[00:21:09] You know? Like, they’ll see it. If it’s paint by numbers kind of stuff of just, how do we make sure we get lots of people in the cinema to come watch this. And that’s all it is at the end of day, you watch the trailer, you go watch it. There’s some kind of cooler stuff than you saw in the trailer. And some funny things that weren’t in the trailer, and then that’s about it.

[00:21:25] You watch the movie and you walk out. That’s definitely not kind of, that’s not what I’m interested in, you know, and I’m pretty sure those movies will all get kind of bombed by critics. But I think, I don’t know. I think I just try and make the movie I would want to watch. So it’s not so much serving myself as much as I’m the audience that loves movies.

[00:21:44] And what would I think is cool, you know? So it’s a tricky one to, to say exactly what, but I definitely wouldn’t be making stuff to make sure it gets like critically noticed if that makes sense. Yeah. And, and like I said, when I was watching

[00:21:56] Jeff: [00:21:56] the, I guess it’s approval, is it called a proof of concept, a short film for apocalypse

[00:22:00] Michael Matthews: [00:22:00] now, now.

[00:22:01] Yeah. Yeah. It basically, we it’s based on a South African book. It’s a real twisted, cool fantasy set in South Africa or specifically Cape town with like an underbelly of, of creatures and mythology. And it’s like I almost see it a little bit as like a Rick and Morty, South African version. You know, it’s like a lot more grounded in South African culture and all that, but it’s the same type of thing where you’ve got a younger character kind of completely out of his depth.

[00:22:28] To a degree and this older character who’s been through, it, seen it all, he trained in the army. Then he was like drug tested on in the army. Then he trained as a, as a sun Goma and a shame shaman. And he’s got like all just like a, he’s like a whole mess of stuff. And then this is like slightly more innocent kid and they’re on the steak, whole whirlwind of an, of a kind of dark adventure together.

[00:22:49]But so that’s the book and, and we did a short film to too. Basically as a proof of concept, because we, we are looking to make the feature, which we’ll be working on a few years. We just trying to get the script. Right. It’s pretty close. We’ve done a few drafts of it. And Sean drummer, who worked on five fingers, he’s riding us.

[00:23:07] And so yeah, it’s a proof of concept. It’s really cool to check out for sure. It’s we did it with next to no money. Yeah. And the VFX and all that had to be done pretty much for free and they’re really nicely done and I’m super happy with it. There’s I can, I must say between that and five fingers is, would have been the link to the jump for me, of being able to, to get something like 11 monsters, you know, I,

[00:23:30] Jeff: [00:23:30] I definitely in, in watching the proof of concept, I do see some connections between Puklus now, now in love and monsters.

[00:23:38]Is there a, a thread connecting the two movies creatively.

[00:23:43] Michael Matthews: [00:23:43] No, not really. I think it’s just similar in that it’s a, a kid who’s a about out of his depth in both of them as like a generalize it generalization. And then there’s like a self-awareness and a humor that obviously that you don’t really have in five fingers at all.

[00:23:58] You know? So I think that sort of human, that tone of me doing the stuff that I think is fun within John rhe, how to kind of be like a little bit self-aware and kind of enjoy the genre in this of it probably. Translates a lot into 11 monsters, so did to

[00:24:14] Jeff: [00:24:14] get involved in love and monsters. They said that was your first, this is your first big studio movie.

[00:24:19]And when you were approaching it, I I’m sure you made it make some serious decisions on what would be your first big studio movie. So how did you land on this one?

[00:24:28]Michael Matthews: [00:24:28] You know, got really good agents and managers from five fingers and apocalypse. We put those out pretty much at the exact same time around that, that it was end of 2017.

[00:24:40]Toronto film festival was, you know, that we’ve put basically both of those things came out at the same time. We’ve got a lot of attention. I got really great agents and managers. And that was my first sort of, I’d done a lot of learning and pre prepping myself for this world of things and knowing that, okay, I’ve made two cool things that are finally in come out together and we’ll generate a lot of like energy, you know, and, and I need to know how to use it when it comes.

[00:25:05]And, and, and how the agent manager thing works and what I’m looking for out of that and all of that, you know, so when that happened, it was quite a whirlwind for a month or two of figuring a lot of stuff out and, and making those calls. And then. I had really, and I still have really great people and and then they send a lot of scripts, as well as like the stuff I’m developing.

[00:25:25] They’re also constantly sending scripts and setting up meetings for me with. You know, studio people, producers, whatever it might be, who’s interested to chat and, and, and potentially sees me as something that they have some interesting project that that would be right. And so then there’s lots of reading, lots of scripts.

[00:25:42]Are, I can’t remember how many, you know but I read a lot of probably like 40 or 50 scripts over the six months time there, different things coming along and and then 11 months, this was really. Like it ticked a lot of boxes for me in that I just thought it was really, it had a sincerity in the simple adventure sense that you don’t see that much these days.

[00:26:06]It felt more like stuff I grew up on, even though it’s I can’t specifically say it was like this or like that there was just something where the movie was simple and that it’s this guy trying to do an actual mission across the country. Making friends with a dog and then, you know, trying to get past these creatures and trying to get to the school, but it’s not, it’s, it’s a combination of lots of genre, similar to those movies.

[00:26:30] I mentioned growing apart and you know, where it’s kind of leans into the scary thing certain parts more than others, but it’s never going to horror, you know? And it’s the comedy, but it’s got a lot of comedy and sort of charm and self-awareness to a degree, but it’s also not leaning into going.

[00:26:47] Well, I wouldn’t brand it as, this is a comedy as a straight comedy, you know? And then it’s, it’s got the adventure aspect, for sure. It feels like more like adventure that I grew up to degree compared to you don’t see much adventure. It’s almost not even an occasion or these days. A tech, that’s an adventure movie, you know, it’s like this guy trying to get some way across, like an actual landscape and terrain and rivers and all that sort of thing.

[00:27:12] And there was just that combination and in the creatures, in the world of it, I sort of had vision of, of what I thought would make it different. You know, I don’t think it’s, mind-blowingly like. I’ve never seen anything like this, but it’s, it’s different enough that it’s its own thing. You know, I like the creatures being from things we know, frogs, insects and stuff, but, but having more together in different ways and, but you still look at it and you don’t think that’s an alien.

[00:27:36] You think that looks like a giant centipede. But and the textures feel real and it’s like tangible, you know, it’s not, it’s not too much of like a movie creature that, all that stuff for me, it wasn’t all in the script necessarily, but it was all in. In what I thought was going to be really cool about it.

[00:27:52] And I actually liked the positive tone as well. Like the, the uplifting, overall feeling of it. It reminded me of, again, of like back to the future and stuff like that, where it’s not trying too hard to be too heavy, you know? Although in surprisingly enough there’s moments where it’s like actually feels really full of heart and quite honest and sincere, but it’s not It’s not trying to be overly deep or take itself too seriously, you know?

[00:28:17] So I, somewhere in the mix of all that, I was like, how do I do this? This is such a cool project for where I’m at. And like, it’s a huge jump for me, you know, like, It’s unrealistic that I can get it to be honest. But I sort of inserted myself. They had conversations with the producers, had conversation with paramount.

[00:28:35] They liked what I had to say. And then it went into a pitch stage where I did a really big and elaborate pitch. It took me about two months kind of getting across all aspects of the movie. Visually and, and, and I did created like a journal type sketchbook with, with all sorts of stuff. And it was sort of had humor in it and in the way things are written.

[00:28:52] And also just to convey that I kind of get the movie and then I had to go and pitch it. And there was still a few other directors in the mix at that stage. And then a few weeks later I found out I got it. And then there was kind of a phase working towards actual shooting. It. Where I had to help reduce the budget and work on the script and put certain things together and kind of figure out how we do the movie with the line producer.

[00:29:14] And then it’s it. It’s a massively simplified version what I’m saying now, but that was, that was it. No, but

[00:29:21] Jeff: [00:29:21] I mean, the movie is absolutely brilliant. I mean, I love the feel of it. I love that the movie is not easily classified. I mean, it’s as much of a monster movie as an adventure movie and it’s, I mean, it’s also.

[00:29:33] In a, in a very honest way, a love story as well. And I think that the way you melded it, I think it was absolute genius.

[00:29:43] Michael Matthews: [00:29:43] Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that, man. I mean, it’s, it’s really, it’s everyone, you know, and that’s the other part too. Like the whole thing is, you know, I, it’s obviously, it’s really nice for me to feel good about being the person who made it, but, you know, it’s, it’s only people who do it.

[00:29:57] And the key collaborators mainly like script writer, cinematographer, VFX, supervisor editor producers, all the, you know, everyone’s constantly in conversation about all of these things, balancing it out and try and make it, making it really work. And it was tricky to make work, you know, like at the tone kind of jumps up and down a lot from funny, scary, then you kind of like could cry and then it’s back to a joke and that stuff is It’s quite tricky when you sort of have a bit of an honest tone, like it’s not, it’s not a big blockbuster in that it’s really punchy moment to moment.

[00:30:32] It sort of got like a bit more of a natural flow to it, but it’s still trying to do those things. You know, it was, it was hard. But I must say, I think it really worked, worked out well, and I’m really happy with how people have received it.

[00:30:45] Jeff: [00:30:45] Yeah. And, and I think what I, what you did very well in, in navigating.

[00:30:50]The writing of that movie and the directing obviously is that, like I said, it is hard. It being a love story. It’s a love story. Literally from the point of view of just one character, for the most part, you never, you very rarely ever see, even in flashback, the two characters interacting, but you believe a hundred percent that the love that Joel feels is a hundred percent valid and that must’ve been really a tricky, tight rope to walk for you.

[00:31:18]Without especially without ruining anything you, the ending you know, how hard was it to navigate that and make it feel genuine, make it feel real, but yet keep it honest. So when, you know, towards the end of the movie, you still don’t feel, you know, you’re honest, don’t feel like it was cheated at all.

[00:31:36] Michael Matthews: [00:31:36] Yeah. Good, good question. I mean, so much to be honest, and it’s a person I meant miss mentioning. And when I was talking about all the color main collaborators is like Dylan. O’Brien, you know, he’s really, really honored and knows exactly what’s going on. You know, he’s not just showing up to act on the day.

[00:31:53] He really he’s super clued into the story and the script and the whole thing. And so really in a way, a lot of it was myself and him navigating things and really on the day looking at totally how something was playing and thinking like is, you know, how are people going to feel about, am I being a bit too cheesy or are we overplaying this?

[00:32:11] And it’s obvious that something’s going to happen here or whatever, you know, you it’s. There’s a, there’s the script. And then there’s actually like doing it on the day and that’s what the audience sees. Well, then edit it. And then, you know, obviously like you, the sound and everything continually reshapes it to the process.

[00:32:27] But what you do on the day is like such a tricky thing to navigate. And what’s taken me these most years of learning to like, get better at, you know, is, is balancing out those things. You’ve got a perception in your head of what needs to come across in the scene, but like, it actually has to somehow play off as the characters face in this moment and needs to feel kind of real and honest and needs to like walk a bit of a tight rope.

[00:32:52] And it’s really tricky. But Dylan, I think is a, is a huge part of. Of why it works and why, it’s, why you really care about the character. He’s super charismatic. Funny. He feels very alive and all the moments and he’s like innocent and passionate about everything, you know? So you just kind of. That, that romantic idealism that he’s got, you know, the audience sort of feel it and you don’t question it too much because you just sort of think this is just who he is, you know, and he’s a really wears his heart on his sleeve and I’m pretty sure the audience all knows.

[00:33:22] Okay. When we get to the third act of this movie, something’s got to go wrong. So the girls got to be like, okay, You know, they’re trying to capture him or she’s into someone else or she’s, something’s going wrong. You know, I don’t think I’m pretty sure that, you know, your audience is so literally literate.

[00:33:37] They know like ways, like how is his plan and what he wants to do, not going to work out. And then, and then that was really the. One of the really touchy things to get right. Is how that, cause it’s actually different to what we originally shot. We did a reshoot for two days specifically on this part, which depends if you want to get into spoilers or not.

[00:33:56] I don’t, I don’t mind, but to get that tone right at the end of what that relationship was and how it should be in the third act was, was actually a reshoot. And, and cause it was quite touchy. Take it right

[00:34:09] Jeff: [00:34:09] now.  we are called spoiler countries. So I don’t mind spiraling and it’s up to you, but I’m actually very curious to what you just said.

[00:34:17] So if you don’t mind going into it, I would love to, I don’t want to, okay. Yeah, sure. Let’s go into it. So what was the original third act then? That you changed that before it was changed or reshot?

[00:34:27] Michael Matthews: [00:34:27] Well, okay, so stop listening. If you haven’t watched a movie and watch it first, everybody. The before I even joined the project, it had been changed from being a a peach tea, like a female cannibal society that she was a part of.

[00:34:44] And she had like led him to come there, which in its own way is pretty awesome. And rutabaga is a version of the movie for sure. And then, and then the one I read was He was he got there and they were leaving, but she was kind of into this captain guy who had arrived, who, so that’s in the movie sort.

[00:35:02] Not really, but I just mean that characters there. And so there was a lot of refining on that version of it, but that was the version we went into shooting was that she was. You know, hadn’t seen Joel for seven years and, and didn’t know him quite that well and anymore, and was into this guy who had arrived to had all these options and seem to be really confident, knew what he was doing.

[00:35:23]And then he sort of earned her back to a degree by the end or, you know, after realizing that this captain guy’s bad and Joel is sort of hoping fi win the day and saber colony, she’s sort of a bit more into him at the end. And yeah, it was just something about that that just felt a bit gimmicky and a bit shallow for her character to just be suddenly into this guy.

[00:35:43] Who’s just shown up two days ago, even though Joel, you’ve known for years and something about it. We shot that version. We, it showed audience, but we’d even by then had sort of simpler, like sort of balanced that out in a way that felt a bit more honest to the character, but the audience didn’t like it, they sort of thought they didn’t like the character Amy, because of it, especially, you know, and then we got there and everyone went, what, I mean, he’s come all this way and you’re sort of like blowing him off because you met someone two days ago that you really like, right.

[00:36:12] That to be, to be honest, the audience didn’t really like, you know, not everyone sees the captain and thinks what an asshole. So if Amy is not likes this guy and she’s just made him and he’s a total douche bag, you know, then everyone’s going, we don’t like Amy at all, get out of there. And everyone kind of lost a bit of interest and had no, you know, no world too.

[00:36:33] Goodwill towards Amy or their relationship working out or whatever, you know? So, so it’s sort of, people just didn’t really like it. And, and. It. And then, you know, we’ve tried lots of different ideas in theory, you know, like in our heads of what could be good. And then ultimately came to this idea of going, let’s just make it super honest and make people maybe think she’s into this guy, because Joel, isn’t just insecure about this captain guy that’s showing up in his, kind of got it all going on kinder.

[00:37:00]But, but she’s not, you know, she’s just trying to help her call me and to be honest, She’s been through a bigger relationship that she lost a person a year ago. And she’s like, it makes you suddenly realize she’s matured a whole lot more than Joel. In the last seven years, he’s kind of still stuck in a 16 year old mind and hasn’t socially grown up at all and she’s sort of taken responsibility currently.

[00:37:21] She had a relationship that she’s lost. She’s not just looking for some idealistic romantic thing that Joe’s going, gonna arrive in. People will feed that life is a lot more real to her. And she’s been through Southern grown up and become an adult and he’s still kind of a kid. And so that, that, that definitely felt like that’s more what the movie is.

[00:37:39] And then Joel needs to sort of find himself on his confidence. And at the end they sort of meet more and they end on mutual ground. You know, there’s a kiss and this, that stuff, but you don’t go like, Oh, these two are meant for each other. You sort of go, you know, they’re both, maybe something will happen in the future.

[00:37:55] I don’t know. But they. Kind of have like a bit more on like equal ground now, something, you know? Yeah. And that worked, it felt more, at least more honest and more, a little bit, a lot less expected. Cause I think people expect something bigger to happen, then something just emotionally, but more real.

[00:38:11] Yeah. And I

[00:38:11] Jeff: [00:38:11] think that’s what I really liked about it was that was the honesty of that that the, the third act, the ending, because like I said, there is something so real about that. I think. A lot of people if you grew up kind of a nerdy or geeky, sort of like Juul, you can kind of see yourself in Juul completely with this idea that you know, he he’s hung up on the last girl to really give him that real, that kind of attention to that kind of you know, relationship and that he is Cho presumptuous in with his mission.

[00:38:42] That, I mean, it’s such an honest real feel, you know,

[00:38:46] Michael Matthews: [00:38:46] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, totally. I think it’s good. You know, movies often do this kind of thing where you just assume the hero should get what you kind of want, he or she wants and they goal is kind of honorable. So they sort of deserving in what they often, you know, cause they’ve been through so much.

[00:39:04] So that’s also, what’s nice is to be there. Well, I don’t, we don’t really know each other that well anymore and all of that, it just felt right. Yeah. And I

[00:39:13] Jeff: [00:39:13] think it also gives a lot more agency, like you said to the character of Amy, because once again, they’re the one thing Joel never asks into is should I do that?

[00:39:22] So you want me, you know, do you want me to come over? And I think that’s just brilliant to really. Make the viewer thing as well, that, you know, we, you know, as, almost like through the eyes of Juul, we never, you know, you never asked if the girl is, you know, wants to this at all from you. This is, it’s kind of, it’s so presumptuous.

[00:39:42] And I think that that really is the genius behind

[00:39:44] Michael Matthews: [00:39:44] it all. Yeah, it’s also kind of a case. Where were you watching the movie? Sort of like what you’re saying, you, you don’t see that besides him, like not being good with them and being a bit immature and stuff, you know, ill-equipped, you don’t sort of see many floors with him and in a bigger way like that you think it’s kind of, you know, he’s trying to be, he wears his heart on his sleeve and he’s just trying to go get the girl and he’s just.

[00:40:07] Doing what he thinks he should do, but at the time you get to the end, even, I mean, you don’t think about these things cerebrally, they’re just more subconscious, but you, you sort of think you know, it was quite presumptuous of him, but also like really immature. When, when she says, you know, you didn’t even ask if, if you should come sort of thing, you suddenly go, Oh geez.

[00:40:27] We feel like Delta, like his version of the story. And we’ve got, we don’t realize that he’s obviously had like, no in-depth real conversations with the fact that it has no she’s had someone in the past or that he should, or shouldn’t come means he’s just pretty clueless. He hasn’t had any real deeper conversations with her on these calls, but in movie world, you never think about that stuff because you’re kind of just in with your character going, well, this is what it is, you know?

[00:40:52]So there was something that definitely works about that.

[00:40:55] Jeff: [00:40:55] And yeah, and I think once again, you do realize as an audience that you are as wrapped up into that fantasy that he has as he is. Because again, you do such a good job of making the world through his eyes and it does give you a true sense of.

[00:41:10] Perspective, like from a point of view of narration and as an English teacher, I was, I’m thinking about once again, that’s a beautiful way of showing how the, how works.

[00:41:20] Michael Matthews: [00:41:20] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:41:23]Jeff: [00:41:23] Was there ever a I’m concerned that the way the movie does and now that it doesn’t have the Hollywood happy ending?

[00:41:31]Michael Matthews: [00:41:31] I mean, I think it has enough of a uplift Hollywood ending, you know, that sort of ticks that box. It sort of picks itself up and then feels really good. And it’s ultimately more movie about Joel dos and then it is about their relationship, you know? So I think at the end, you really, th th it’s, it’s a bit of a, like the journey versus destination sort of thing, where you like them.

[00:41:52] The Mo the reason I like this guy is because he’s been willing to go on this adventure and do what he’s doing, any sort of like, I’ve gotten more confident in and he’s kind of growing up and that’s why I’m watching the movie. Not so much, like you saying, it’s, you know, you don’t, th it’s not a romance in the movie is not around.

[00:42:09] Romance, because you’re not spending a time with them through the movie. A romance has a back and forth and you kind of want the relationship to work, but Canada content and the, each characters has an equal value in the movie, but Amy sort of set up at the beginning and then she’s really just his ideal thing that he’s, that he’s chasing through the movie.

[00:42:28] There’s no back and forth. That’s a real relationship. And then that kind of shows at the end. So I think you people feel good because they feel good about where Joel is at at the end. And then. You know, he’s taking a bit more of a leadership role and they’re hitting off to the mountains and there’s all that sort of voiceover at the end.

[00:42:42] It just feels like he’s grown up and he’s gotten some confidence and he’s kind of on this mission without becoming kind of a cheesy hero. He’s like found himself more as like a valuable part of his community, you know? And

[00:42:57] Jeff: [00:42:57] it is definitely a fantastic hero’s journey that Joel goes on. As he grows into, basically he becomes a man throughout his journey and, and w the revelation at the end of the street, I think he grows a lot from that as well, being that this was your first Hollywood movie and you’re growing as well as the director.

[00:43:13] Did you see yourself in Joel in that sense?

[00:43:16]Michael Matthews: [00:43:16] I don’t think so.

[00:43:21] Jeff: [00:43:21] Am I stretching too far?

[00:43:22] Michael Matthews: [00:43:22] Yeah, I think so. I mean, I would say the, the big jump for me of, into this, into the Hollywood thing was mostly just really awesome, you know, and just fun to finally, cause I felt, I feel like I’ve spent so long trying to be in debt and wanting to be in that space and sort of prepping my excitement and my, you know, in so many ways you spend, although you suddenly I’m suddenly they’re doing it.

[00:43:44] I’ve also spent just so many years. Living it in my brain, you know, watching, you know, like most movie fans, like just watching so much behind the scenes and director’s commentaries and watching and listening to everything and like just having my mind so full of like what I want to do when I’m doing that, you know?

[00:44:05]So it was really felt like. Like at a pleasure, you know, super hard and really stressful and ambitious, but it was also, I felt like I was working with such awesome people and making a monster cool adventure movie and all that. I mean, it’s like a dream come true. You know? So it was really just good, good fun.

[00:44:22] I don’t know that there was too much way. I mean, I definitely learned things through the process for sure, but I can’t really relate to anything similar to Joel.

[00:44:32] Jeff: [00:44:32] So, what are the other actors that you work with? That is one of my favorites is Michael Rooker.

[00:44:37] Michael Matthews: [00:44:37] Who? Yeah, he’s great. Yeah. Who, I mean,

[00:44:40] Jeff: [00:44:40] his reputation, at least on screen is always as someone who’s very like gruff and tough.

[00:44:44] Well, what does he like working with?

[00:44:46] Michael Matthews: [00:44:46] He’s just the loveliest guy, you know, he’s really like gentle and nice and funny and tries to make sure everyone’s feeling good, you know, on set. He’s just really lovely and he works super hard. And, and so it’s really supportive when things have been difficult or anything with other actors is difficult or when he sweating and he’s got a heavy pack and he’s like, you know, do whatever he’s doing.

[00:45:10] He sort of like laughs a bother, but I can see, you know, I’m thinking, yeah, this is tough, man. It says on the sun, we’re doing another take and it’s tricky as a lot of lines and you’re sweating and blah, blah, blah, you know, and it, it is. It sounds like a rich person problem, but it’s hard. It’s real hard work.

[00:45:27]And you know, some actors can get a little bit, like I need 15 minutes and like, I want to go sit in the shade and just take a moment and get a cold drink and, you know, just regroup myself. But he’s just there. He’s an, I have a lot of respect for that. He’s like there to work, you know? And, and just the loveliest guy, like really funny, had a lot of laughs with Dylan and Ariana and just such a nice guy.

[00:45:50] Jeff: [00:45:50] And another part of the movie that though is a very interesting addition to the movie is the character of Mavis the robot. And I, like I said, it was kind of an interesting inclusion to the movie. How did Mavis get involved with the movie, the idea of the character and what, and how did you view the PR was the purpose basically for the moment of.

[00:46:10] A flashback that you see through her, like video screen or was there just, you know, some other addition to move that was you felt it was its purpose.

[00:46:20]Michael Matthews: [00:46:20] It was, it was in the script way back, but from before I joined, you know, like I think from right at the beginning. Yeah. Cause it went through years of development before I joined with the scriptwriters.

[00:46:31] Oh, so it’s something you’ve mentioned a couple of times. I wasn’t a writer on it to see, you know just so that’s clear, it was. Brian Duffield and then Matthew Robinson. But it You know, to just one of those like genius strokes of from Brian Duffield of, of something that feels like it doesn’t need to be in the movie necessarily.

[00:46:49] And just felt quite rock because it had this like emotional poignancy as a scene in the middle of the film, that’s kind of long in a way like it’s and it’s on a story level. It only does very little. So like it’s, it’s not necessary. It’s more, just a gray it’s slightly unexpected. And then you’re surprised.

[00:47:09] That it’s funny. And then quite emotional. The flashback of the parents was actually not. And the way he cries, because you sort of seeing the flashback and and all that, that wasn’t actually scripted. That was something we did in the edit. And it wasn’t originally a different part of the movie, but the picture of the mum always came up, but it just didn’t work.

[00:47:31] It didn’t quite land as much as, until we did the flashback of, of going back to when the mom died and yeah. The other colony people put it pulling on the back of the van the car and stuff like that. It certainly felt like it added a whole lot more emotional weight that work, whereas before it felt almost it was good, but it didn’t, it sort of felt a bit awkward cause you didn’t leave the space of a robot and a person looking at each other.

[00:47:55]So that, that flashback definitely kind of helped. But yeah, I think it was just something that was like such a great scene, always and, and surprise that never came out in the scrub tour when we shot or in the edit, because it was like often, you know, Everyone’s looking to tighten stuff and it, it, it could have easily at some point been like really trimmed down or changed quite substantially because it’s not that necessary on the pacing of the movie, but it just worked really well.

[00:48:22] And, and when we tested the film and stuff, like there were never negative. People always just loved it. And it was like, this is a great scene. I think you’re just surprised at the character that is the robot, which is great, you know? Yeah. I mean,

[00:48:35] Jeff: [00:48:35] it was, it was a great moment and I also liked the moment a lot and it came at a great time in the movie, the, with the jellyfish approaching and like the beauty of it all was just was I think it was a fantastic moment

[00:48:47] Michael Matthews: [00:48:47] in the movie.

[00:48:49] Yeah, it was really cool. And that, what was also interesting about that, like shooting at wise was it was a puppet, so it was a guy in blue was like two rugs in the back of that actual robot. Like, like one hand, one hand in a speck of its head, move, the head, operate the head around and then one rod.

[00:49:09] With the one arm to like maneuver an arm. And then in, in post we obviously did what was on the screen. We, we changed because we just had sort of round lights for eyes. But we animated what came on the screen on the face and then did some embellishments of like the hand movements and certain shots just started to look more articulated and looked less like a puppet, but there was something quite cool and clunky about doing that as well, rather than going a CG.

[00:49:36] Robot. And then what inevitably happens, the same approach with me, for the creatures. Although we had to do a lot of that in CG, it was like, I just don’t want it to be too fancy. Like I like that. It’s quite like as soon as you get into a CG world, you suddenly have great people working on these shots and you all spending way too much time looking and thinking about these shots and there’s multiple people involved in them and it’s almost hard to not make it.

[00:50:03] Overly complicated or like move or do things that really cool and clever, but certainly subconsciously for an audience. I think a lot of people these days, you just sort of know it’s CG, even if it looks really good, it’s just. Like things can just be too good, you know? And there’s something nice about a clunkiness without it being jokey, but that sort of limits you.

[00:50:26] And if you went CG, you would end up trying to be too specific on movements and too, you know, too well controlled or something, you know? So that really worked

[00:50:37] Jeff: [00:50:37] and the movie is getting great reviews on rotten tomatoes as a 92% critic score and 90% audience score. I mean, it, it really is been well received by everybody.

[00:50:47]Is there any chance that there’s gonna be a SQL live 11

[00:50:50] Michael Matthews: [00:50:50] monsters? I don’t know. We’ll see, you know, it’s, it’s a tricky one. Cause it got released so different. It was originally going to be a full theatrical worldwide release. Which was only actually, it was originally going to come out in April this year and then it got with the pandemic and everything.

[00:51:05] It got pushed way out and then it went to. February is going to be on the long Valentine’s weekend this year. So it would have been coming out a month from now. That was the original pan. And then, you know, in like August or September, they just sort of decided, look, we don’t know what’s even going to be happening then.

[00:51:21] And if there’ll be cinemas, we’ll be open enough. So we’re gonna like do this route, you know which is the P the kind of like premium video on demand release, which only a few movies had done. So. It’s tricky. It’s done really well. And everyone’s super happy with the response, but it’s hard to equate that with your normal theatrical run, the amount of marketing that normally gets an exposure just in your face, because you’re at the cinemas and you’re seeing things it’s quite tricky.

[00:51:49] So there’s been quite a think with quite a few of the movies that are released in this way. It’s it’s harder to gauge that, you know, I don’t know it’s going to be done to the audience over probably the next year. Cause it’s still in that phase where it’s still, the price is still kind of dropping and people are buying it.

[00:52:06] And I don’t know what kind of amount of money it sort of passes that everyone feels like we should do a sequel, but I must say the response from the audience is really high on doing one. And, and the other tricky part to it is that it’s. Only being released in the us and the rest of the world. Was it international, international, Netflix sales.

[00:52:25] So Netflix boarded up the rest of the world, which is coming out in about three months. So it’ll just be released everywhere at the same time on Netflix. So again, that kind of muddies the waters to the normal way. These things go and who I think, you know who takes writes of a thing, you know, if they go in a sequel, I’m not quite sure within that Netflix deal, what happened there.

[00:52:49] And I think we’ll just have to see it’s unfortunately just tricky and the times have been funny this year. So it’s sort of as muddied what otherwise would have just been a theatrical release. And then it would have been easier to, like, I think the answer will be clearer as to like, yep, this will be going for another one, you know?

[00:53:07]So we’ll see, I think there’s a lot of fun ideas in the world is like a lot of potential to open the world up. And, and Dylan’s really awesome. I’d love to work with him again, but I think it just depends. It’s it’s a lot of it’s down to the audience in how well the phone does financially, even though critically an audience wise has done well.

[00:53:24]One of the things I did notice is it was like torrenting, like super high for a long time. So, which means that a lot of people in the rest of the world have all watched it and probably obviously enjoyed it. Cause it stays it’s still quite high up in like torrenting lists, but it just means that there’s no like financial value to that, you know?

[00:53:43] So this long gap from when it came out in the U S to the Netflix, was that been like four or five months? It’s sort of, everyone’s just watching it anyway. If they want to watch it, they finding a way to watch it. So that all sort of muddies as well. Like what, I don’t know, what, what overall the studio and stuff feel like they should do with it.

[00:54:00] So tricky.

[00:54:01] Jeff: [00:54:01] Well, I, for one definitely hope there’s a scene in the movie ends set up for us equally to me anyway. I mean, it, at least to me, it seems like it’s designed that way. So hopefully it goes forward with that. What projects do you have coming up next in the plate? Down the pipeline.

[00:54:18]Michael Matthews: [00:54:18] There’s nothing for sure.

[00:54:19] I know. I’m going into in the next few months I’ve got three or four things that I’m working on. A couple that have come to me and a couple of others that I’m developing. And they’re all, they’ve kind of range. I’m sort of this, this last while, especially since the vintage finished this 11 monsters and to the point I am now is it’s really a lot of, it’s trying to figure out exactly what I want to be doing while I’m kind of working on things.

[00:54:45] You know, you keep growing as you do stuff and learning about yourself. And I really enjoyed doing love and monsters, and I get that in bigger entertaining space where, you know, it sort of works for a lot of different types of audience. But then at the same time, I really like, you know, the things that are more in the vein of five fingers in that they are maybe not as easy to digest, but kind of quite unique.

[00:55:09] And Original, not that it was on original, but just a different type of audience, you know? So tricky there, there’s basically, there’s a couple of things I’m working on that I would say would fall easy into like a daily, vulnerable kind of world. And there’s a couple of things I’m working on that would fall in two 11 monsters or like, Maybe even a little bit of Tyco or TT version of Lebanon or something, but not monster something else.

[00:55:38]A little bit more superheroes actually. So, so kind of trying to, I’m hoping to bounce between those things. Not necessarily one movie like this, one like that, but I don’t want to go only into like, as entertaining as possible. And I also don’t want to. Be trying to do stuff that’s, that’s only, you know, for a specific audience and harder to digest.

[00:55:57] But, but I, I liked both trying to find out mostly it’s all within science fiction space, not necessarily high science fiction or like, you know, crazy, but usually some sort of heightened concept that puts it in a. Different slightly different reality or definitely within John NHRA and stuff. So I’m not too interested in doing anything.

[00:56:18] That’s kind of too much of a straight action movie or a comedy or a romance or something, you know, they’re usually kind of a bit mixed and mostly have like some kind of concept behind them that makes them certainly a unique space, you know? So yeah, we’ll see.

[00:56:33] Jeff: [00:56:33] Well, like I said, whatever you work on next, I definitely hope you come back on the show.

[00:56:37] You’re fantastic to talk to and thank you very much.

[00:56:40] Michael Matthews: [00:56:40] Yeah, thanks so much, man. I appreciate it. It’s been really great chatting. Yeah. I enjoyed it as

[00:56:43] Jeff: [00:56:43] well.