Michael Conrad and Becky Cloonan – Creative team on Wonder Woman!

Jeff had the pleasure of chatting with the creative team behind the current Wonder Woman series, Michael Conrad and Becky Cloonan!

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https://twitter.com/beckycloonan

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Interview scheduled by Jeffery Haas
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Theme music by Ardus

Matthew Blair and Frankie Washington Interview

 

[00:00:00] Jeff: Hello listeners, this polar country today on the show you have, when the hardest workers in all of complex Frankie, Washington, and his co-creator Cajun and Cowboys, Matt Blair.

How’s it going guys?

Frankie Washington: Hey, what’s up?

Matthew Blair: Fantastic. Thank you. Nice, nice

Jeff: to be here. It’s my pleasure. What some of our listeners may not re. Realizes that I’ve known Frankie. Now for many years, he was one of my he was our artists on a very cool mini series called the nightmare patrol with a written by me and my father was a great pleasure to talk to you

Frankie Washington: again.

Yes. Yes. It’s always good. And we had some some fun adventures with that book.

Jeff: Yep. We drove into New York a few times. A lot of things happened for a totally another day. One day. We’ll have we’ll come on and we’ll, we’ll share a war stories. There you go. So what I always like to ask my guests to start off is what got you into comic books.

Do you remember your first ones and when did you know you wanted to be part of the industry?

Frankie Washington: All right. Okay, fine. I’ll just go ahead. The first day, the first comic book, I remember that really inspired me was the Shogun [00:01:00] warriors by Marvel comics. It was written by Doug Munich and drawn by herb shrimpy.

And that book showed to me giant robots and codgers and something that I really liked and admired. And it sort of inspired me to go down the path of being a pro artists. Now I’ve worked in the art industry. But over the past couple of years, I’ve been really moving into the comic book industry.

I’ve had a great time doing stuff in advertising, toys and games and things like that, as well as film, but something about doing comic books and just creating something that’s new and different and exciting. Yeah, it’s just, it’s definitely got me going. So I’m excited.

Jeff: How about you, Matt?

Matthew Blair: Yeah. So, my route to comics was a little more circuitous.

I I grew up loving history and like ancient Greece and Rome and all that stuff. And so the first comics I really got in, got into war Astrix and the homiletics. Which is a French comic book series. That’s really good. And I highly recommend it. The, the [00:02:00] first time I really got into superheros and like, you know, modern comics was actually through television.

I started watching the, the justice league cartoon when I was a teenager and that blew my mind. And I, I was like, Hey, wait a minute. This, you know, this history stuff and this super hero stuff kind of meshes together really well. But, you know, I did that. And then after I graduated college, you know, I started really getting into getting into the MCU.

Andy, how’s that better? Should I start over? Should I start over again?

Jeff: Sure. Go right

Matthew Blair: ahead. Fair enough. So. No, my journeys comments was a little bit more complicated. I actually didn’t start being a comic book fan. I was a big fan of ancient history and mythology and still am. But you know, the first comic book I really written and enjoyed was asterix Synoptics.

It’s a French comic book series. If you don’t know it, I highly recommend it’s [00:03:00] hilarious. And a lot of fun. But after after I started reading that I discovered the justice justice league cartoon, and, you know, I was like, oh, so this mythology and this history, and, you know, the superheroes, they, they they’re, they’re similar.

And you know, that was really cool. And so, you know, that went off, went on a little while went on for a bit. And then when I was in college, I discovered the MCU and I was like, oh, okay. A lot of people really like this stuff. So this looks, it looks kind of interesting. And you know, after college I putter putter around for a little bit.

Didn’t really know what I wanted to do. And then one day I just, I just, just decided I’m going to write comic books for a living. Why not? Can’t be that difficult. It’s, it’s insanely difficult. It’s. Yeah, I do not recommend it. You know, I do not recommend making this a career choice if you want to have a, you know, a good life and lots of money in the bank not recommended, but you know, I did it and you know, I met Frankie and we’ve been [00:04:00] working together for like what, six years?

Frankie Washington: Six years. Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew Blair: And Yeah. It’s, it’s been a journey and, you know, I moved around a little bit and you know, here we are.

Jeff: So Samantha, so as you were saying that you’re fast and you’re fascinated with history. I did read that you’re a graduate of Stetson university and you were an end up being a history major.

So how did you apply what you learned there to what you do now as a writer?

Matthew Blair: Well, I mean, I’ve always. I always, th I guess the reason why I enjoy history so much is that I treat it like a story. Like I somewhat famously, never took notes in all of my history classes. Like I would sit and I would listen to the professor talk.

And so, you know, as I was sitting, I was picking up. I was sitting and listening. I was picking up, you know, you know, the idea of like narrative and like how, you know, you know, [00:05:00] these figures and these characters would react. And like, you know, th the, the, I don’t know, it’s, it’s, it’s weird to put into words which is weird, not being right.

You’re supposed to do that, but Just like the, the, the nature of history. I just treated, it, treated it like a story. And, you know, as I was writing, you know, one of my dozens of papers, like I got really good at organizing my thoughts and, you know, just organizing everything into a narrative that is easy to, easy to understand.

So, you know, it was. Sort of very matter. And it was very, you know, taking all this information and being able to process it in a way that’s easy to understand and. Can be a lot of fun.

Jeff: Yeah. I mean, that’s, it, it was like hearing how people get to where they are now. And what they’ve learned in one area helps them be successful in [00:06:00] another.

And like I was talking about when I was looking also at Frankie’s career, as I’m a graduate of Matera school of art, you studied commercial illustration now for our listeners. What is commercial

Matthew Blair and Frankie Washignton COMBINED: illustration?

Frankie Washington: Commercial illustration pretty much. I’m a contractor. When I first went to be terrorist school of art, one of the main things that the teacher who was, who was interviewing me before I can get into the school, was that they said, look, you do understand that we’re here to teach you how to make money.

Drawing. And I remember I was like, whoa. And he said, no, no, no. While you’re here, we’re going to, we’re going to show you how to elevate your skill, your skillset, so that you can go out and then you can make money, make a living as an artist, working for various clients. So pretty much commercial illustration is really like, you know, artists that go out and do work for advertising.

You do stuff or just pretty much anyone. I mean, you know, realtor needs a drawing of a house or something like that. You’re someone who is It’s just like a mechanic or whatever you go out, you do the job, and then you were awarded by [00:07:00] getting hired again and again, and again, you function more in a sense of the art industry, which is vast, you know, sometimes I tell many artists out there that you have to look at the art industry instead of just one specific small river, which could be well say comic book, art comic book.

Art is one small river coming off of, or coming on, you know, connecting to the grid, the vast seed that is the art industry. So again, animation. Same thing. That’s just a small inlet or the same thing, not small only, but I almost see it like that, but I’ll just say like more of an inlet to the, to the vast sea.

And so I navigated through the vast sea. I wanted to be able to connect with as many different jobs and clients and stuff like that. So that it can enhance my skillset so that my portfolio could be very collectic. That was always something early on. When I was in my career, I was like, I want to have an eclectic portfolio.

That was like a major thing for me. So I want it to be like, when someone opened it up, they’d be like, you couldn’t believe that one person, you could almost do all this artwork, you know, gaming. I got into gaming stuff. I got [00:08:00] into advertising, identity, film, animation toys, you know, trading cards and in comic books, you know, and so forth editorial.

Cartoons I’ve done that. So, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s one of those things where I say that is something where you have to look at the bigger, the bigger industry, because you’ll learn a little bit from it from advertising. I learned how to be able to pitch myself and how to communicate with potential clients and stuff like that.

And I say, look and understand the fact, the deadlines, and also the fact of marketing and marketing yourself and looking at yourself as a brand. So, yeah, that I would say that’s what, you know, commercial illustrator, you know,

Jeff: I think it’s so cool is, you know, Matt came from Stetson, you came from Matera, gave him different roads and eventually you guys met up and your partnership began.

So how did this partnership first start and what makes it work?

Frankie Washington: Oh, well, Matt, Matt reached out well, I see, I, did I answer your thing? You were looking for an artist.

Matthew Blair: Yeah, no, I, I put the ad up. [00:09:00] Yeah. And you responded to me. We, we, our first collaboration and our longest collaboration was on a web comic that I had an idea for what Frankie doesn’t know is that actually before the web comic, there was another comic that I had also put an ad up for it on the same website freelanced, I think.

Yep. And I was like, oh, I hope that I hope he responds to this. I really want him on this comic. You know, get out.

Yeah, but you know it, but whatever that, that it was, it was like someone’s first. It was my first idea. And it’s not going to seek the light of day maybe in the distant future. Like, you know, when things are, you know, roll picked up and rolling and rolling forward a little bit, but yeah, I. I put up the ad Frankie responded and started.

Then we started working on the web comic and As for what makes, [00:10:00] makes this work.

Frankie Washington: I would say communication, we’ve talked about it before, where I’ve always cause you know, and the same thing, like with Jeff too, like me and when me and Jeff worked together and. Just like Matt, is that I always, my heart breaks for many save writers and creators up there who ended up trying to get artists to work on properties because unfortunately there are a lot of scam guys out there.

Listen, you know, I’ll call it what it is, you know? And, and I’m always like, man, I, you know, the thing is, is trying to tell someone that, yeah, I’m. A professional and that I’m not going to try to burn you or whatever. That’s a, that’s a that’s that takes a lot of like, you know, you know, you gotta be, you gotta be like the faith.

They have the faith that this person is going to say, okay, they’re going to do everything they say they’re going to do. And so I always try to approach any kind of assignment that I’m working on, where I’m gonna say, okay, you know what. I’m going to try to get this person 200%. That means a communication.

That means if we need editing done or whatever, I want to make sure this person understands that I’m not going [00:11:00] to be that individual. That’s going to be like, all right, see you later. You won’t hear from me in like six months to a year. So that, that

Matthew Blair: was actually the problem with the first one. Well, the first start is incidentally enough.

And to, to build on that, I think also another reason why this has worked for so long is that I’ve been quick with the invoice payments, which yeah, half of a joke, half of a joke, but I mean like the amount of people I’ve talked to that have said that, that, that are like, oh, I’ll just pay you an exposure or.

Oh, we’ll pay you this. And then like, th they’re slow with that. It’s like, it does tie back into being professional, like Frankie said. And I, I hate that. I wouldn’t want to, you know, I wouldn’t want to, you know, do a, do a job for someone and then wait three months for the invoice to come in. But you know, that that’s also a part of it just like, you know, being.

Well, like Frankie said being professional and being timely [00:12:00] with responses and, you know, keeping the machinery running

Frankie Washington: well, also being another thing too, I just want to add is just being proactive. Like one of the things that I, you know, I’ve tried to tell artists out there is that the job doesn’t just end when you just finished, you put that pencil a pen down, you know, I don’t, you know, I, I really strongly suggest to artists that when you work on a project that you should go out there and she talks about that project.

You should definitely be out there speaking about it, doing everything you can to try to help that project succeed. That’s what advertising Tarmany advertising. You know, I wasn’t clearly making the money that say the concept, people, the people that were concept thing in and stuff like that, you know, of a other ad or whatever.

But the thing was that I was part of that team. You know, I either worked doing storyboards or layout art or whatever, but I was still part of the team. And so. Everyone understood that the agenda was to try to succeed. We all wanted the major client, the big, the big dollar client to be like the buy-off on the concept.

So that we all can benefit from it. [00:13:00] And so the key thing I tell any artists out there is that you shoot you when you’re working with a writer or, you know, and, and, you know, you’re being paid for it and stuff like that. And then you do the job, understand that you, you should try to help. Market a little bit of marketing to try to get the word out.

So it, it helps it so that hopefully if the project is successful, then that, that, that writer will call you back and then you can work again or whatever. But, but it’s also, as you know, it’s on you as well, you get a chance to have your work be seen by various people and stuff like that. So it’s a symbiotic relationship.

Jeff: I agree with you Frankie. A hundred percent. I’ve dealt with artists who, when they’re working on a project, they just kind of ditch it. They don’t really go into it. But the key is, as you said, as an artist, if my project is successful, that’s another issue that you’re probably going to work on. It literally is paying yourself.

In the future, you know, if you’re paying it for yourself forward, by making sure that project is assessed. That’s right. That’s right. And it matters. And I agree with you a hundred percent. I think a lot of artists [00:14:00] look at a job as a job, not as a potential future job. Yeah. You’re showing your

Frankie Washington: drivers.

Exactly. You’re showing your work too. So you’re not you, you, you, you got some skin in the game too. Yeah.

Jeff: I agree with you a hundred percent. Yeah. So, unfortunately, so we don’t pay for zoom. So in case time’s ticking can you both give me your pitches for cages and Cowboys versus

Frankie Washington: Cowboys? All right, man.

All

Matthew Blair: right. Can I just, and Cowboys it’s a 20 page comic it’s it originally started as a one shot, but it is actually a zero issue for a 12 issue minute mini series that we are publishing with source point press sometime in 2022. Nope.

Frankie Washington: Second site publishing.

Matthew Blair: Edit that out or Bradley knocking on my door. So we’re going to start again on [00:15:00] this one. Sorry. All right. Catching Cowboys. It’s a 20 page comic that originally started as a one-shot, but it’s actually easy, real issue for a 12 issue mini series. That’s going to do publish 20, 22. And it’s a, what it is.

It’s a comic that’s set on an alien planet that is being inhabited and colonized by an army of robots that are trying to make the planet safe for human habitation. Yeah. Unfortunately, the planet is also overrun by giant monsters that we call Kaiju. And so what happens is the robots have created a group of specialized robots called hunters to wander across the planet and you know, just you know, kill as many cages as they possibly can.

So it’s very much sort of like a clinic Eastwood movie Godzilla. Yeah. The only difference is that Clint Eastwood is actually capable of taking on these guides you on his own. So, [00:16:00] it’s got a lot of action. It’s got a lot of thought. It’s got a lot of great art by Frankie and we’re very excited to share it and to publish it and to show you guys all the cool stuff we have.

Frankie Washington: Yeah. Yeah. So

Jeff: say I had the pleasure of reading the first issue, and I really thought it was a lot of fun. It’s a lot of fun. The art is whimsical and entertaining and fun. I didn’t have a question about the comic, the comments. I didn’t notice that it’s a little sparse on the dialogue and the capsule. How did you go about relaying the story visually to make it to make it happen?

Frankie Washington: But I think that I felt that Matthew sorta approached it almost like you try to, I try to imagine how Jack Kirby must’ve been working with Stan Lee with Stanley would just sort of right. Plot out certain things and say, okay, this is how the scenes is going to be. And it’s some creatures and whatever.

And, and, and that’s kind of like how Matthew’s approach was. To me where he was just like, okay, this [00:17:00] shot right here, it’s going to be this and this and this, this such and such, you know, but, but again, I think that more dialogue once the actual series drops, we’re going to get definitely more dialogue.

Cause now we’re going to go more into the story, which we were treating this book, the Zillow issue, more of the introduction to the universe, a small, small little, little hole introduction. But once the series actually starts up, then that’s when we start getting deeper into the story. Yeah.

Matthew Blair: Yeah. The, the, the, this book’s job is to show like what, you know, what the situation is, what you know, what the, what the cages are to these robots and what the hunter is to the Kaiju.

And I actually, I can speak to some of the inspiration, a big part of the inspiration for it was like when we, when we were talking about the series, when we were talking about making this issue, I had just finished watching Tarkovsky primal.

Jeff: Yes. Yes.

Matthew Blair: Yeah. For anyone who doesn’t know Tarkovsky, he’s the guy that created, I think the Powerpuff girls and Jim plaque as [00:18:00] well.

And like his whole thing is like, You know, using as little words, as few words as possible and using, you know, the action and the animation to tell the story. And I thought, you know, that’s really cool. That’s what I want to do.

Jeff: So I found the cowboy to be a very interesting character. So what is, what motivates him?

Matthew Blair: Well, I think another thing that one of the hallmarks of science fiction, when you’re talking about robots is like, you know, you have the, you know, you know, a robot has their programming. You know, what, when you have literature that talks about, you know, humans, you talk about, you know, things like fate or destiny, or, you know, robots, they don’t have that.

They have their programming. How much of that is you know, how much of their actions, you know, or what they’ve been told to do. And, you know, is there anything that goes on that, you know, they’ve developed and worked on their own? And so, you know, just, you know, seeing that, you know, [00:19:00] having that mystery and Lee, you know, leaving that, you know, these ideas up to the reader to think and to process you know, is another thing like, you know, another part of writing stories, especially is, you know, how much do you tell the reader and how much do you let the reader.

I figured it out on their own and you know, it’s, it’s a balance. And, you know, I think with the zero issue you know, it, it, it’s, it’s a, it’s a little action set piece at the scene. And you know, our job is to show the reader what, what is going on and what the situation is and what the let the reader’s imagination do the rest.

So, you know, I guess it to answer the question in a very roundabout way What makes the character interesting is the lack of information and what and, and, you know, what, what do you think is going on in the robot’s mind as he’s doing his job? Like, you know what, like, you know, what, what do [00:20:00] you think he’s thinking

Frankie Washington: about?

Well, when I was concept thing, his look, I, I clearly, I was thinking of plenties with demand, with no name. You know, I love those spaghetti westerns. I love the character. And again, you had this iconic character who really didn’t say too much. He just went around and he did things. And you were left with this, trying to, you know, he did his actions, but you, you always go for you’re left with that weird feeling of like easy, good, or is he bad?

You know, and that kind of thing, but, you know, but that’s, that’s who I’ve sort of based it on. I was like, first time I popped my head was Cleese wood. The man went on name and then I started digging deeper and it was like, you know what I wanted? He said, so I’m a huge fan of like Jack Kirby and a fan of a lot of the old school go navigate, which is Mazda, Z, that kind of stuff.

And strange characters like that. I started really trying to channel a lot of that as well. And just the design and look of it.

Jeff: You know, one thing that I’ve always wanted. I appreciate about you, Frankie, is that your art is so damn expressive. [00:21:00] Yes. You have expressive of characters, the kg or expressive it’s in is vibrant as well.

Does that just come naturally to you? That kind of expression did, was there something that you intentionally tried. To focus on and learn how to create that kind of expressive art. Was there someone you modeled after? So talk about

Frankie Washington: that. Well, the thing about it is that again, I grew up in a great time during the eighties, seventies, and eighties, where, you know, I was seeing this, a tremendous artwork coming out from these creative teams.

And so, like I said before, Jack Kirby. Heavily I’m heavily influenced by Jack Kirby who who was like everything. And then her Trumpy, her trip, his work what he worked on the Hulk, but also his stuff on the Shogun warriors and Godzilla was really something about that really hit me and a certain way where.

You know, I, I love the sense of a little bit of that. A little bit of humor. I was never a big person into just gore for gore sake. I love the sense of actually, like I loved again, [00:22:00] going back to how Jack Kirby would demonstrate a sense of action and stuff like that. You know, I don’t ha I don’t need to see a character being chopped down and eating a bunch of blood spilled all over the place, you know, to get that kind of thing.

So I’m always. Trying to challenge myself. You know, another thing that I also love doing is watching a lot of old school, like Twilight zone, black and white movies and stuff like that. Just to sort of get the sense of character lighting playing around with shadows and stuff like that. Growing up in the seventies and eighties, the color palette, it was a very straightforward kind of color palette.

When I worked in animation briefly for a little bit, I got to see a lot of the old school kind of coloring techniques, which were pretty much flat. It was just flat colors, little bit, you know, just a little bit here and tonal stuff, but not that much. Just because I know how dark my artwork can be.

I tend to use a lot of heavy darks and blacks in it. So I really don’t need to over, you know, hit it with so much like glare or whatever and stuff like that. So,

Jeff: what advice do you have for new artists? Because I think a lot [00:23:00] of artists are, we able to call the pinup artists. They go for the big image, but they lose the nuance of what you are able to do in your characters, in the face and the body language.

So what can you tell new artists to focus on, to be. Sessile

Frankie Washington: like you are. I, I’m a huge fan of sequential art. So first and foremost, you got to be able to get breakthrough, whatever that fear is that you may and having have in drawing out scenes, you’ve got to break through that advertising because I had no choice because I wanted to make money and survive.

Was that advertising. I was drawing stuff that I was like it was the most boring, boring, boring things. Like I was drawing, you know, trucks and cars and stuff like that. These weren’t like elaborate scenes. It was just like, Hey, just draw some people outside with more kind of things. But it forced me to draw the things that, that I didn’t want to draw.

So I would suggest to any artists out there that, you know, again, you need to look at life and start looking at those kinds of, you know, image of how life is and start drawing. And [00:24:00] practice drawing, enjoy, enjoy, enjoy some more. Director once told me, he said, Frank, when you draw your scenes, try to imagine, imagine an imaginary camera floating above and you get to see all these wonderful, different angles.

You know, all constantly when I’m thinking this out of my head, I’m always thinking of different angles. I have tons of reference. That’s another thing. I have tons of reference books, as well as the reference I get from online as well. So I, you know, I’m always trying to build up my, my cache of tools.

To be able to do that work, you know, so that it can, so I can be able to tell my voice in it, you know, especially surrounded by a lot of stuff. That’s so realistic. Now, when I look at artwork, now everyone’s trying to do outreach, holistic everyone else. And I just, I just want to have fun. I want, I want to bring combos back to that sense where it’s just.

Pure escapism. I want somebody to feel like they can transport into his weird world where these characters look this way and that’s it. You know?

Jeff: So Matt, when you’re writing your script, How [00:25:00] detailed are you with what you want Frankie to draw, or you can’t get over visually to him? Or do you have a very keen sense of what you want to say?

Matthew Blair: I, it depends on the panel. Depends on the moment if there’s a moment that.

Jeff: Did you cut out?

Frankie Washington: Oh, we lost you, Matt. I think we had, I

Jeff: think, I think we lost Matt. Oh no, he’s he’s there, but the volumes did at a time. Okay. Now the 10 minute mark just pops off. All right. So Matt, go ahead. We got 10 minutes counting. Yeah.

Matthew Blair: My, my, my screen, my bipedal descriptions are pretty simple. Like I’ll have, like what kind of shot I want like I’ll, I’ll re I’ll write this right to say, you know, what kind of effect I want the shot to have and what’s going on.

But other than that, like, you know, Frank, Frank is the artist, Frank, he’s the guy who spent. You know, years perfecting and honing his craft. Like I can’t draw to save my [00:26:00] life. So it’s yeah. It’s th th there’s a large amount of trust. Yeah.

Frankie Washington: And I do a ton of I’ve done. I do really good tight thumbnails too.

So to see the thumbnails and he can tell me edits and whatever. So

Jeff: you don’t matter. I get the feeling. You’re a lot like me, the way I always view it is the artist always has a better eye than I do. They’re more visually aware than I am. And I always think it’s best to let them make the decision.

Matthew Blair: Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah,

Frankie Washington: she’s got some great ideas too to write is how some grades there’s sometimes where, you know, like on a design, for instance, when we were talking about the hunter, I, I was going through some concept thing and Matt loved the original first design I had and then of how the hunter space was. And at first I wasn’t sure it was going to work, but he said, Frank, I love that face.

So I was like, okay, I looked at it and I said, yeah, you’re right, dude. So I just, you know, so those are those great times where I think you know, he came in and he said something and I needed to have that extra voice to kind of confirm it.

Jeff: So. Obviously you [00:27:00] guys were versus social on your Kickstarter.

Congratulations. Oh, thank you. You hit your number, you hit your goal. And as someone who has failed multiple times on my own Kickstarter and I’m, and we’re on part of a a large group of people who have, how did you both unlock the key to a successful kickstart? How did you guys figure it out?

Matthew Blair: Well, I too had a Kickstarter that failed miserably.

I, I asked, I was asking for $9,000, but I made a hundred dollars. So like, I, I understand failure. But God, probably the biggest thing for me was just like, Pre-campaign marketing and planning, just like creating a list of, you know, all the people. I knew all the resources I had, all the resources I could you know, pay for that, that sort of thing.

And just like, Going down the list, you know, this is what I’m doing before the campaign. This is what I’m going to do during the campaign. This is what I plan on doing after the campaign. So just, you know, doing that and also I’d say the biggest resource that I that I [00:28:00] have, the, the best thing that happened to this campaign is Frankie.

No,

Frankie Washington: it’s true

hustler. That’s the thing. And I go back to the artists out there. This is a, this is all hands on board, you know, kind of thing. It’s like, it can’t just fall on one shoulder. So immediately I was online and doing everything I could, you know, and getting the word out about it and stuff like that and constantly doing it.

So again, this is something where if there’s artists that’s attached to a Kickstarter with the writer, And the whole team. I mean, if there’s separate people, anchors, whatever, everyone needs to be talking about it, everyone should be motivated to be putting out there. It can’t just be one person trying to do it.

And the thing about it is that they have to, and this is one of the things I learned from advertising. You have to learn the skill of being able to sell. It’s like a salesman. You, you, you know, you can’t just say, well, here’s my thing. Come buy my thing. It has to be something where you put some [00:29:00] excitement into it and make people want to look at it.

It’s just like, if you, if you, you or somebody outside of a store or whatever, what brings you into a store? You know, is this something that’s in the window that gives you attention? Or is it the person that says, Hey, how are you doing? What’s going on? And these are the little techniques and stuff that you learned, especially in advertising.

I didn’t go to school for advertising, but I worked in advertising. I watched all the people around me who were day on the student and stuff, and I just. You picked up on certain things about it is that it’s a cell. You got to understand that you’re in this role now that you’re a sales person and how do you get people?

How do you, how do you engage people? Not even give people, but even getting them engaged into your project so that they can at least have some conversation, at least that they want to, you know, pay into it, to read more. So that’s something that you just got to work at, but it has to be all hands aboard.

It shouldn’t just be one person showing all that weight. Especially in marketing.

Jeff: So how do you find the essence of your project and make sure that is your sale? Cause once again, from my, from my memory, I used to sell commission sales and [00:30:00] mattresses and furniture and lockout. I’ve done a lot of commission stuff.

And the key is you really only have like 30 seconds to grab someone’s attention again, to do something. So how did you find the essence of your project and make that?

Frankie Washington: Well, here, I’ll say this right now. Me and Matt first talked a little bit about it and I said, One of the genres that I know that I have a strong strengthen, like a base, a small fan base in his car, Jews and guzzler and Kong just came out versus Kahn came out.

It just it’s, it’s going to be clocking onto a billion dollars now and make it, it’s just the perfect it’s like, if you could somehow feel whatever concept you’re working on, if somehow you’re able to connect to that audience, that’s really going to be behind it. Then you need to go for that audience and go strong.

And then hopefully through that audience, you’ll be able to bring other people in from different things from other different genres. But for me, I knew that colleges  talking to the base, getting them charged up about it and also, you know, calling them out. Like I literally, when I talk to people, [00:31:00] I say, Hey, look, you know, the thing about is Godzilla is great.

And I don’t throw any shade on that stuff, but Hey, there’s a bunch of us out here. A lot of indie indie creators out here that are doing Kaji related books. Come on over, come on over and read it, check it out. You know, we, we were never going to be able to touch with Godzilla has never, because it’s been around for, it’s a, it’s an, it’s an old IP and it’s a very profitable IP, but Hey, we got some stuff over here too.

So that’s my, my thought my approach to it.

Matthew Blair: Oh, yeah. And I I’d say, yeah, Katie’s was definitely a big part of it. And like, there’s a reason why we ran the Kickstarter when we did, it was because of Godzilla vs Kong. But at the same time, I’d also like to add like, it’s, it’s not just, you know, Hey, check out these Kaiju and like, you know, w we want to associate with Codzilla it’s yeah.

We’re. Offering a new and interesting twist to it. Like we’re adding, you know, the, the, the Cowboys we’re adding, you know, the Western dynamic to it as well. And not to [00:32:00] give too much away about the larger series, but we’ve got some stuff in store. That’s going to put Godzilla.

Frankie Washington: Oh boy. Oh, wow. You’re talking so smack.

I know Matt, you make it match making me nervous

Matthew Blair: Kickstarter so you can help get this whole, get this whole thing rolling, because we’ve got, we’ve got some stuff that just, just going to make people’s jaws drop. So, you know, you’ll like it. No, I can,

Frankie Washington: I can say honestly, I’m just glad that we’re part of this. We’re part of this movement right now with the ND, especially in the indie market.

I kept hearing for the longest time people kept saying comic books with somehow dying or dead, and then not. They’re not people comic books, indie comics have been around for a very long time. It felt very Dave, Dave continued constantly, and now you’re starting to see more people getting into it and it’s bringing back that nice, eclectic just sense of what comics are about.

So I’m loving, I’m loved that. [00:33:00] We’re right now in this moment. So,

Jeff: yeah, I would say Matt, that’s a hell of a promise. I look forward to seeing if you can fulfill it, hopefully you guys do

Matthew Blair: kick ass script and we’ve got an awesome artist attached

Jeff: to it. So what, so when does, how long does your Kickstarter last?

Matthew Blair: Oh, we’ve got 11 11, 12 days left. So there’s still plenty of time. And we also have some pretty cool stretch goals. I think if we hit 3000, it’ll, it’ll be a variant cover. If we have 5,000, there’s a prequel comic to the story. So, you know, we, we definitely got time and, you know, it’s, it is not unheard of, you know, we can, we can do it.

Jeff: Well, well, Matt and Frankie, thank you so much for talking with me. KGB versus Cowboys looks awesome. I enjoyed it. You guys listeners support their project on Kickstarter. Thank you so much guys, for talking with

Frankie Washington: me. Thank you, Jeff. Take care, brother. You as

Jeff: well. Thanks.

 

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