Spoiler Country welcomes back the dynamic Hivemind duo of Jackson Lanzing and Collin Kelly! Melissa sits down with these two awesome comic book creators to chat all about Captain America, The Flash and Aquaman, superhero bromances, and more! Check it out y’all.
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Lanzing and Kelly 2
Melissa: [00:00:00] This is spoiler country and I’m Melissa searcher. I’m so excited to welcome the hive mind duo of Jackson landing and calling Kelly back to the show. Hey guys. Welcome back.
Jackson Lanzig: Hey, thanks for having us. Yeah. How are you, Melissa?
Collin Kelly: Thank you so
Melissa: much. Yeah. Glad to have you back. We had a lot of fun last time, so I thought we’d do it again and let everyone know what you guys have cooking up.
Cause you’re always doing a million things, so I’m excited.
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of announcements. How
Jackson Lanzig: you both been very well? Yeah. Really just kind of taking it all in stride. It’s been a crazy obviously for adding everybody a few crazy few, couple of years. But in all of that chaos, we’ve had a lot of dreams come true, which has been pretty wild for us.
And yeah, I think we’re just kind of trying to keep ahead of the, the head of the wave of projects that we have either said yes to, or gotten so passionate about. We couldn’t say no. Right. And it’s, it’s definitely getting to a it’s getting to a, to a place where it’s just pushing us along and we’re looking ahead and [00:01:00] trying to figure out, you know, if there’s any room even in the year for more for more work or if we’ve really just kind of hit our.
Our limit, which is the first time that’s really ever happened to the two of us. So it’s been exciting. I think Jack being
Collin Kelly: a Santa Cruz, boy, I think he can appreciate this metaphor effectively. We’ve caught a super gnarly wave.
Jackson Lanzig: I love the metaphor
Collin Kelly: is just killer and we’ve been waiting for this swell and now we’re on our long board and the wave is like pressing behind us and oh man, it feels amazing.
I think, you know, Jack hits it on the head. The amount of dream projects we’re getting to work on right now is his unreal. But at the same time, this wave is still growing and we are getting closer and closer to the shore. So we don’t exactly want to get off, but there’s always a feeling of like, well, one, if you joke the wrong way, you will go
Right? Yeah. Easily that miss. Right. I remember you’re a Santa Cruz guy, you know, cause I’m, I’m not far from there. Have you been back at all since you? [00:02:00]
Jackson Lanzig: I have not been back in Probably three, four years now. I was going to be there in 2020 for a sort of reunion with some friends and family. And we ended up not going through with that, obviously because of the pandemic.
And I have not yet been back. I’ve really, I don’t have family there anymore. So mostly I prioritize seeing my family where they live now, which is like in Portland. So I spent, I’ve spent more time up in the Pacific Northwest, which is where Collins from. So I’ve really just kind of switched. Nice.
Yeah. Well, Santa Cruz, it’s Santa Cruz. I mean, there has been some growth I believe, but it’s still kind of is just the same, same vibe, same type of people, you know? Yeah.
Jackson Lanzig: Yeah. I mean, it’s a different, yeah, it’s a different town that I grew up in for sure. Like I, I came up when that town was a little bit more I think a little bit more of a like poor college town.
And I think around after the the advent of Silicon valley and all of the big social changes that happened there, it was definitely interesting to watch the town change and, and become harder for [00:03:00] sort of my, certainly my family to live in just by nature of how expensive everything got. But but that was you know, that was a big part of my childhood was kind of watching as, as Santa Cruz shifted and changed.
Sort of under our feet, which I thought was really interesting given that, that Jordan Peele movie, us, that like the set in Santa Cruz. And it’s sort of very specifically about that same kind of process of how Santa Cruz handled its own gentrification and its own communities. It was, it was, it was pretty wild.
I want to, I want to, like, I wanted to meet him. Did, you know, did you live with group in Santa Cruz? Like how did you know
Melissa: this? Yeah. Yeah. It’s such an interesting brace because yeah. I’ve been going there since, you know, the early nineties you know, it’s just across the way from where I live and it’s so different because it was very like hippy, Bohemian skaters, huge homeless population.
And there is still that element, but I went back a few years ago to, you know, the catalyst is still growing strong there.
Jackson Lanzig: That’s great to hear. Yeah. [00:04:00]
Melissa: But it was interesting because the street itself was very like almost bougie in a sense, like they had seeks and you know, like little boutique restaurants and stuff.
So it was very different from like growing up in the nineties there.
Jackson Lanzig: Yeah. I mean, I think that it’s that push and pull is always the problem. It’s like when I go back to Santa Cruz, I’m not really going back to the town that I left because almost every business that I grew up with there has gone now that.
I went to my very first concert at the catalyst, weird Al Yankovic at the catalyst. So in like 1991 or 1992. So like that’s a, you know, that’s a big, that place means a lot to me is I’m glad it’s still around. I’m glad there’s still, there’s still certain businesses and certain people who are hanging on there.
I think Atlanta’s fantasy world. My old comic book shop, I think is still there. So, you know, I, it’s always nice to see at least the certain stuff that holds up. Yeah. Yeah.
Melissa: I know. Funny enough. I, I saw Juul before she was famous at the, yeah. Just like there was like five people in the audience and she was just chatting with us for a couple of hours.
It was, it was interesting. Yeah. You know, you never know. But [00:05:00] yeah, so let’s, let’s jump into it. So the last time we talked towards the end of the interview, you were hinting about some dream projects that, you know, of course this was a year ago. You couldn’t speak about, so I’m curious is captain America, one of those projects that you were in the works at the time.
Jackson Lanzig: Yeah, we’d probably just, we’d probably just started on cap at that point. We had been but you know, that’s the crazy thing is like, I can say like, sure. Yeah, it was probably cap, but at the same time, like it was probably that man beyond, and it was probably probably probably man flash void song. I would start a new thing at DC, which is its own like exciting and sort of bizarre opportunity.
Collin Kelly: have a. Y a novel that we wrote for one of the big publishers that has yet to be announced. So that is also probably one of the things that we were super excited about, which is with another legacy character that we never thought we’d get our hands on.
Jackson Lanzig: Yeah, but we have genuinely no idea when that one’s going to come [00:06:00] out or when it’s done without legends.
No, no, it’s a it’s a different thing and we cannot all talk about how to break the news and try and trick us, but it’s, I mean, it’s, it’s really like, there’s a, there’s a laundry list of projects that we sort of got spinning up in the second half of last year that we still sort of pinch ourselves about working on it.
So it’s a crazy. It’s a crazy thing is people who grew up on these, on these characters. And certainly captain America, I think, takes the cake on that. Steve Rogers is a character. It means that just an enormous amount of both of us. And when we got the opportunity to come in and pitch, it was very much with the idea that there was no way we’d ever get the job, but it would be great for us to pitch it so people could see what we could do.
And then a couple months later, we, you know, we were on the phone. Tom Bree board of all people, you know, that this, this legendary editor telling us that we were going to be the next guys up on captain America. It’s a truly remarkable experience. Wow.
Melissa: Did you celebrate, did you scream into a pillow [00:07:00] like that info?
Jackson Lanzig: Yeah.
Collin Kelly: Yeah, there was definitely running some running around the house. Some jumping up and down. I think probably we each immediately called our wives and that our mothers in that order the only downside being, you know, at the time, we weren’t even really able to spend time. So I think Jack, I think we still need to drink a super fancy beer in honor of captain
Jackson Lanzig: America.
I think you might be right. We’re gonna have to make that gonna have to make that move pretty soon. We’ll we’ll we’ll celebrate it. Yeah, we’ll celebrate the, the rap on the first arc since we were just about to finish up arc one in terms of scripts just about there.
Melissa: So I want to ask you, you know, because I find captain America is probably one of my favorite superheroes and I wanted to ask you what your take on it.
Like, what do you think makes him different? You know what I mean? Cause he’s definitely, there’s something about him. That’s very different from the other, you know, cast the characters. And what [00:08:00] do you think that is?
Jackson Lanzig: Well,
Collin Kelly: I think one of the biggest things is that he is the, he’s a true embodiment of what we expect out of the greatest generation. There is, there’s a legacy and I don’t use that word quarterly. There’s a history of American experience that is so lost to us as our world has evolved and changed. You know, gray area has been introduced pretty much on every level of society, but for Steve Rogers, he always saw the world very much in black and white.
He knows his moral code and lives it. And then he wakes up into our world and our civilization, our society, and he realizes that all of those black and white things are so, are so gray and so complicated, but he has never lost that core ideology of. Standing up for those who can’t fight for themselves of doing everything you can to resist fashion and tyranny,
Jackson Lanzig: fashion,
Collin Kelly: resist fascism and tyranny.
He [00:09:00] maintains that goal and that strength, even in the face of you know, impossible odds. And even when the very thing that he represents
Jackson Lanzig: America, doesn’t perfectly
Collin Kelly: align with what he thinks it should be. Right. He, he just has a real strength of character that can look at any situation and really have him stand on his own and say, this is who I am and the
Jackson Lanzig: world can bend to meet me.
I think that’s. Well, a big sort of, I think there’s, there’s the part of it that Colin, I think really nails there. And it’s sort of the in universe thing that makes them very special, which is that others, other heroes don’t necessarily have a creed that is so fundamentally clear and and forthright you know, I think this is where stories like civil war can come from because where other characters can see larger context where iron man is.
We’re constantly trying to think about the future and changing his mind and pushing back and coming from a [00:10:00] place of hubris and where Winter soldier or black widow or draw driven by a certain amount of guilt or where Hulk is driven by this curse that is sort of on him. You know, all of the heroes have these, these, the Marvel heroes have feet of clay and they’re there at the, at the core of them.
They are people who are struggling through extraordinary events, extraordinary context, and that’s what makes them so strong. It’s, it’s the genius of Stanley’s sort of vision, but Steve is half that. And I think in, in the times, when you can really point out his humanity, when, when you stepped back into his quiet rooms, when you get to go behind the curtain with him, you do get to see that there’s a man under there, but he is a man who is the walking embodiment of all of these ideals.
And so he walks into a room with a certain amount of what separates him from the Marvel universe to your question is that he does have a an almost. [00:11:00] Like he is almost the demigod of America. He is a, he has that fundamental alignment with not the, the, the, the objective political reality of America, but the subjective ideological, the, the America that lives in all of our hearts and minds.
When we like to think about the best of America. And obviously as Americans, we can never agree on that. That’s a, that’s a real, you know, conversation. Exactly. But what I think that’s, that’s, what’s amazing about Steve is that he is a man who is trying always to sit in the center of that push and pull and find the.
Find the way to steer that conversation. And that doesn’t mean that he’s always going to be in the center of issues. I think Steve Rogers actually ends up to the left of a lot of issues just by the nature of who he is. And over time has occasionally aligned on the right of issues, depending on where he’s at.
I think that sense of Steve has to kind of make up his mind and then as he makes up his mind, it is it is reflective on the American [00:12:00] experience, the American dream, the American ideology that makes him very special and, and unique in a world of people who are mostly operating for their own ideologies and their own concerns.
Steve Rogers, his ideologies and concerns. Aren’t about himself. They’re about. There are about a symbol that he wears on his chest. It’s about what the shield means. And it’s about the people that he can pick up and empower along the way. Yeah,
Melissa: no, he is like the you know, complete polar opposite of let’s say like a character like Homeland or right from the place who is basically the antithesis of all, of, of what Steve stands for.
And it’s interesting because they both are in sort of similar situations at times. But it’s just like the choice and the, like you said, the morality and I feel like captain America would be the least superhero to ever get swayed by the dark side. You know what I mean? Like he
Jackson Lanzig: wouldn’t go there. Oh, but I think that’s that Steve’s, if Steve sort of has a superpower it is in large part, the, and this is [00:13:00] why I think it was really tough.
Well, if see him as a superpower in large part, I think it is that he is able to walk into most scenarios and be righteous. He sort of has an inherent righteousness. He has seen, he has looked tyranny in the eye. Thousands of times, he knows what it looks like, and he knows what it means to stand up to it.
Steve has never gonna force you to live his way, but Steve is going to force other people to allow you to live yours. Steve is a bastion of freedom and he is a bastion of other people’s freedom, not ju not his own and certainly not his own power. He’s not the kind of person who Supreme powers or becomes.
You know, maybe he’s not the authority. He is the. He’s the man in the alley who stands up against bullies. He just does that on the largest possible scale and the smallest possible scale. And I think that’s what makes him so unique is that he is simultaneously this giant icon. But then when you get him behind closed doors in the same way that when you get Homeland or behind closed doors, you find a really broken lonely site psychopath.
[00:14:00] Basically when you get Steve behind closed doors, you find a very lonely. But squishy guy, you find a guy who I think is an artist at heart and who wants beauty in the world and wants his friends to be happy and wants to see community come together. He wants the Avengers to assemble that that’s his objective.
His objective is not his own power, his own aggrandizement. I don’t think Steve Rogers cares if anybody knows or, or aggrandized as the name, Steve Rogers, you know, I think he wants that symbol to mean something to every person who’s downtrodden that they can stand up for themselves.
Melissa: Absolutely. And I think that’s such an important symbol right now, especially, you know, and it’s, it’s really cool that you guys get to you know, work on this comic and, and release it and, you know, what does that mean to you right now, with everything going on in the world?
You know, how are you, what’s a story about first of all and how are you bringing this into [00:15:00] the universe that, you know, other incarnations of come before
Jackson Lanzig: you want to take a crack at the block first colony. You want me to run it?
Melissa: Let me think.
Collin Kelly: What the story is about really is we start from the we start with this question of what, if there was more to the shield than even captain America himself understands what is the, how is this a secret that people will die for? And what is the secret that exists that exists around it. As he starts to dive into that mystery, he’s going to start realizing that there is there are forces at play within this world that are nudging the fate of history that are guiding, that are encouraging, that aren’t necessarily controlling, right?
This isn’t a, a group of the Illuminati who are directly you know, controlling minds. This is, these are someone else. This is something bigger. This is something more insidious, and it is dictating and [00:16:00] influencing the. Of the last century of our nations. They are very much this is very much a history, a secret history of America and what it is that they’ve been doing and who have they have been manipulating to achieve their ends.
Cap is going to discover his own place in this conspiracy but also the place of his friends and how his entire history is effectively in lockstep with the, this, this secret organization that you, we are very excited for you to learn more about
Jackson Lanzig: and broadly the, but I think to, to, to, to back off the specifics, cause we probably got too specific right there in terms of what you’re going to learn.
I think it’s important to sort of. Frame the context of this, not as a not in this sort of particulars of apply, because you’ll understand the particulars of the plot as you get there. Issue one finds Steve moving into his hometown and uncovering the beginnings of a conspiracy. The story that [00:17:00] we’re trying to grapple with here is is one that when you pick up the idea of captain America feels very crucial, which is a story that doesn’t ignore the last century of injustice, of pain, of oppression, of fascism and one that looks at all of the systems around us that operate as bullies that operate as checks to not just our individual freedoms, but our collective freedoms that the things that keep us from achieving the futures that.
We could achieve where we not shackled by centuries of precedent of culture, of history of art and money and all of these things. And I think it was time that rather than fighting a avatar of simply of, you know, right-wing fascism, which has, I think been a, a a righteous cause for captain America [00:18:00] to fight for the last hundred years.
It was time that we scope out a little larger and look at the forces that allow for the rise of right wind capitalism, right. Right-wing fascism scope out and look at the historical forces, the market forces, the artistic forces that prevent all of us from moving towards a utopia colon. Come from star Trek, right?
That was a big part of our last couple of years was, was our time on star Trek, year five. And re-engaging with star Trek reminded us a lot about the aspirational nature of that universe. That it is, that is a universe about not just living in a utopia that’s sort of finished, but striving every day to maintain that utopia, to create a better world for all people.
And I think that we, as a culture, pay a lot of lip service to that, but at the end of the day, we go back to the same cultural Wells and I thought it was we really thought it was about time that Steve look, those things in the eye. And so [00:19:00] what does it mean to look market forces in the eye? What does it mean to look at cultural dynamics in the eye?
How does Steve Rogers have a fight with the idea of. You know, any of these particular sort of forces that keep us in line and I’m going to be vague about them, because again, I don’t want to spoil too much about where we’re going here, but I think the fun and the challenge of this book is not running away from the dangerous nature of writing a political captain America story, but rather trying to take that political conversation, that social conversation and turn it into the kind of story that always I think really flies with captain America, which is pulp science fiction and big historical conspiracy stories.
So really going at that. That big Kirby energy story that kind of thing that can live in a, in a, in a [00:20:00] huge way. It can feel like a, you know, billion dollar blockbuster movie, but can also be about something that we can see outside every day. I hope that by the time people get through the first six issues of captain America, Sentinel Liberty, when they look outside, when they watched the news, when they listened to their favorite song, when they read their favorite book, they start to see the insidious forces that we have aligned against captain America in all of those things.
And they can start to look at how they themselves might be able to fight back against those forces. And that’s a, that’s a really exciting and obviously a, a big big bite to take. So it’s. Stepping forward with a lot of bravery in this particular context, because it’s not as easy as being like he’s going to fight Arnhem Zola for six issues.
Right. We’re, we’re, we’re gonna, we’re, we’re taking risks as much as we possibly can on this, because if you can’t take risks on captain America, you know, where can ya? Yeah. Well,
Melissa: and that’s really interesting because I think a lot of readers, people in general, those are subjects that we’re all interested in, you know, [00:21:00] especially as of late you know, we’re all doing our own digging and trying to find out, you know, information for ourselves rather than be like spoonfed.
So it’s interesting that you’re taking it in that direction. And I think that people will respond really well to it. Yeah.
Jackson Lanzig: I
Collin Kelly: do think the other way. Another thing that’s important to think about this though, is one of our mandates isn’t just to tell an amazing captain America story, but to tell an amazing Steve Rogers story.
I think one thing we haven’t seen a whole lot of in recent continuity is stories that are really about Steve. And this was a mandate that we had from day one. It’s something that was reinforced by Carmen. When she got on
Jackson Lanzig: board, I mean, carbon Carneros are artists on captain represent noble Liberty.
She’s absolutely incredible. Yup. And
Collin Kelly: that’s about bringing a life to Steve Rogers. And that’s, you know, when Jack says, like, we start the story with him returning to his child in the home and lower east side of Manhattan, that’s a real touch point for us. This is Steve Rogers trying to get back to who he is, [00:22:00] not as a symbol, not as the flag, but just a man.
There was an early idea when we were brainstorming that, you know, he isn’t. But there’s not a lot of traditional, you know, artists, you know, good jobs. There’s not a lot of traditional artists positions out there, so we should update a skills. So we, haven’t gone to community college and learning and taking a digital art class.
You know, it’s that kind of stuff. Right. It’s just a small little thing.
Collin Kelly: exactly. And it’s just so important because yeah. He’s dealing with these very cerebral enemies and Jack is not wrong. We are really swinging for the fences on this one, but for every beat of that grant Kirby, adventure, we needed a beat of Steve getting a beer, you know, Steve, Steve drawing something poorly and tossing it away of of talking to old friends.
You know, it’s important for us, for him to be a living breathing person because.
Jackson Lanzig: Being an American, right. As soon as we
Collin Kelly: forget that we are actual [00:23:00] people and not just slogans, not just, you know, not just what we wear on our shirts. That’s when that’s, when toxicity happens. And that’s when discordance happens.
I’m not saying that if you treat everyone like an actual person, but it doesn’t happen radically different opinions on things, but it is easier. That’s something that we really want to bring to the book is the humanity of Steve
Melissa: Rogers. That’s really cool. And what does he, I know you can’t give too much away, but is he going to have any help along his journey?
As far as other characters, crossover, allies, anything like that?
Jackson Lanzig: So, yeah, of course, absolutely. Captain America offers you that that’s very exciting. It’s certainly one of the best supporting casts in comics. And it’s a supporting cast that is in a, a really fun moment because his two best friends are really in like really unique positions in their lives.
On the on the one hand you [00:24:00] have Sam Wilson once the Falcon now captain America as well. Who’s going to be anchoring his own book, captain America, symbol of truth. That’s why there are some titles on both books. Captain America, symbol of truth is the Sam Wilson book. Captain America Sentinel Liberty is the Steve Rogers book and you’re doing great.
We’re doing Sentinel symbol of truth is being written by Toshi. When you’re bocci, who is a just an incredible novelist and comic writer, he’s been writing a letter to the black Panther recently, and he is telling a. Just all out global conspiracy action, thriller with Sam Wilson with Joaquin Santos, his his Falcon and with a whole bunch of, you know, exciting characters.
And he’s really embracing that idea of. What it means for Sam Wilson to be captain America in the Marvel universe. What does it mean for all of the Marvel heroes? Just look at him as captain America. He’s the outward facing cap in a lot of ways, Steve is going to be captain America without the [00:25:00] congressional committees and the Avengers duties.
He is being he’s captain America, as Steve Rogers sees captain America. And so that, so Sam is going to be out there really shouldering the burden of being an outward facing cat and what that means for him. And so, the, the two books are applauded in lockstep where we’re trading scripts with Togi, we’re plotting with Tojo.
We know where these books are going together. So fans should read both. In fact, they’re both going to launch in captain America, zero. In April and then in may, symbol will launch. And then in June Sentinel, our book will launch. So you’ll be seeing three months in a row, captain America, zero symbol, number one, and Sentinel number one.
And those three are going to sort of make up the season premiere of the captain America line as it works. So with Sam off doing his own thing, that really lets Steve’s book focus down on the two most important relationships in Steve Rogers, Sharon Carter, and. [00:26:00] Bucky Barnes, Sharon Carter is going to be off on a mission for the first six issues.
You’re not going to see Sharon. You’re not going to hear from Sharon. Sharon is away. She’s doing her own thing and she’s going to be stepped away from the book for a minute. This isn’t because we don’t love Sharon or because we don’t have plans for her. But rather because we really felt like it was important for us to focus up the story on Steve on his universe, on his new mystery, on these new characters, on the new supporting cast, because he’s done also have a whole new supporting cast of characters in his new neighborhood.
Yes, Mr. Rogers neighborhood coming.
Collin Kelly: We did not know that’s what we were doing until we just like wrote down like someone like Mr. Rogers, how are you doing? And we’re like,
Jackson Lanzig: holy shit. But the, but the fun truly is getting to look at what it means for, for Steven Bucky to really be partners again, to rely on one another.
And to discover opposite sides of the same mystery. So anybody who’s read winter soldier devil’s rain devils during winter soldier, which was a one shot that we did [00:27:00] to tie into trips in our cities, a recent Marvel event we’ll have seen Bucky Barnes fight a sort of terrifying version of the king pan and get out of Gracie mansion with a file that is a that reveals a whole new history of beyond his involvement as the winter soldier, in terms of how he has been used by people over his time as as Bucky and as winter soldier.
And he learns that he is part of something larger something referred to in the document as, as the Starbucks. What the star points are, what they mean, how they interact with the rest of the Marvel universe and how they intersect with the mystery that cap is starting to sort out as regards what his shield means and what its true history is.
Those two mysteries are going to come right head to head with one another as Bucky and Steve realized that they are effectively on the same case. And so that push and pull between these two men is is a huge part of the book and their relationship and their friendship. Forms a [00:28:00] fundamental pillar of, of what set in the Liberty is going to be about for the entire run of the book.
Interesting. So yeah, he’s going to be our main, he’s going to be our main core supporting character. And then we, we’re bringing back a, an old, a friend of his from world war II. We’ll let you see who that is in issue one, we’re bringing back, we’re bringing in a bunch of new civilian characters a kid in his apartment complex the friends who he meets at his digital art classes the local trade unionists at the at the local union bar.
Like we’re just going to be really introducing a whole realm of Americans to surround captain America. And we think that’s going to make for a, for a really vital aspect of the book. In fact, I’ll say right now, like issue four of captain America is that It takes place entirely with those people.
It isn’t really a superhero story. It’s a story about Steve living a sort of normal human life and what it means to be Steve Rogers on the day to day your friends and family, and like the new people around you.
Melissa: That’s so interesting. And as far as sharing those, are you going to be doing anything [00:29:00] for Sharon?
Like to explain her time away?
Collin Kelly: Oh yes. Let’s. Let’s not say anything more than that, but you weren’t going to, you’re going to see, you know, as Jack points out, we’re going to spend a little bit of time setting this table, but when Sharon comes back she has been up to mischief.
Jackson Lanzig: And I will say, because we’ve been a little vocal about this already that Steve, that, that Sharon is a, a character we both think is a vital part of the Marvel universe and is one of these characters who really can, can stretch so far beyond.
The limitations of being captain America’s girlfriend. And we are very excited to step that forward in some very vital ways over the course of the rug. But we don’t want to do it all at once. We want to take our time. We want to make sure it’s justified. We want to make sure it’s there. So yes Y Y Sharon has been away and what she has been up to is going to become vital, not just in Sentinel, but also I think in symbol.
And [00:30:00] you’re going to be able to see how that ties together, these books in certain ways. Interesting. I’m
Melissa: curious now to see what she’s up to,
Collin Kelly: of course, you’ve been asking about one Carter and not the.
Jackson Lanzig: What’s up with
Melissa: Peggy Carter? Are you teasing or are you going to tell me something,
Collin Kelly: teasing the hell out of you?
We love Peggy. We love Dryad. All of the daughters Liberty stuff is just really fascinating. So that is something that we want to do. To play with a little bit. And I think fans if you’ve ever been excited, if you’ve ever been excited about Peggy Carter kicking absolute ass, Hey,
Jackson Lanzig: strap in issue three, your three kids or something or spoilers or something.
July, August, August, I guess
Melissa: I have to wait so
Jackson Lanzig: long with that. Oh, I’m sorry. Well, that’s what captain, Carter’s there for? You got it. You got that. You’ve got the captain Carter book there, just to keep you, keep you going until she’s back in the real world.
Melissa: And how many issues are you doing for captain America?[00:31:00]
Jackson Lanzig: Ongoing book. So as many as, as many as we can, we have at least the first two years of the book planned out right now. So, the hope now is really for us and Toshi to set up and. Just running at this story for as long as fans are excited to read it. So we hope people come out and really check out the book and give it a shot because I think they’re going to see something very new in both of these
Very cool. And you said that’s like April and may.
Jackson Lanzig: Yeah. April is captain America number zero. So people can pre-order that right now that is available for pre-order. That’ll be out in April that is a 30 page giant sized issue with Matea to Louis doing the interior art, which is really exciting.
Cause that just beautiful, beautiful art. That is a story co-written by Toshi and us. So you’re actually going to see us handing off. We wrote it like jazz. Like we literally like passed pages back and forth and like figured it all out together. But it’s a, it’s one big giant action sequence with Sam and Steve [00:32:00] and the bio fanatic himself Arne and Zola doing some doing some very relatable Elon Musk style, rocket launching that I think is going to be really fun for people free falling out
Melissa: of a plane for an entire theory.
Jackson Lanzig: The idea that that was our, that was our Nightwing. So yeah, we we’ve had a lot of fun with that, but yeah, it’s the opposite of that one. It’s that, but going up and so we’ve been having a lot of fun with that. And then. In, and then the next month in may, a symbol of truth will launch and then the following month in June setting up Liberty.
Melissa: Okay. So, all right. So April maids is pretty much every month or something who are coming
Jackson Lanzig: out that way. Exactly. Well, and after, and after may, you’ll have to captain America books every month, saddled Liberty and civil of truth, both happening simultaneously. The idea really is from like for fans, who’ve really gotten into Marvel comics through the, through Jonathan Hickman’s X-Men line.
The idea here is to create a a corner of the Marvel universe as they did with cacoa for captain America and his characters to shine. [00:33:00] So this is not just a place for us to tell a Sam Wilson book and a Steve Rogers book. Hopefully it’s a place for us to tell many books with many sides to the American experience and really opened that side of it up for a whole bunch of creators to come in and play.
It’s a, it’s a really exciting. Wow.
Melissa: That’s so cool. I feel like there’s just so many endless things you can do, you know, there’s so many ways you could go and things you could explore. I mean, it must be really fun being in your head.
Jackson Lanzig: It is it’s, it’s, it’s a blast. And again, it’s, it’s why it helps that there’s two of us.
Cause we really can’t just geek out about this stuff together. And find the places that we both get excited. I will say wildly, we have had the core of our captain America pitch. We had had four. I, you know, nyum for years now easily, like probably more. And we’ve been trying to find a way to sort of get at the story and crack it open because we feel like there’s a whole chunk of the Marvel universe, just waiting to be explored once we open this Pandora’s box that we’re going to [00:34:00] open.
So, I I’m, I’m, it’s, it’s pretty surreal to us that it’s, it’s actually becoming real well. And the fun thing
Collin Kelly: there is, you know, we came up with this pitch kind of, really right at the start of our careers, really close to it. We were just thinking to ourselves like, wow, man, if we ever did get a pitch chance to pitch captain America, how crazy would that be?
What would we tell them? And I think that’s so much of what our career is. And so much of what we can recommend to younger creators is like, there is no storytelling, a story. You build those stories, you follow your passion, you let those great things kind of bubble up in you. And even if there’s not a home for it now, it doesn’t mean that there won’t be that on this pitch for years.
Cause who, who who’s going to give us the chance to pitch captain America. But when we did have it, we were able to step up and take that swing. And I mean, it’s got us the world.
Melissa: Yeah. Well, that’s why it’s so important to keep like all your ideas, you know, written down in a file, whatever it is. You never know when you’ll be able to utilize that.
Like you said, you know, maybe at the time when you thought of it, you weren’t in a [00:35:00] position, you know, to be considered, but then, you know, you’ve grown this platform and your career and you’ve proved yourselves as writers and creators. And, and now you’re like, Hey, let’s pull this out of the hat because now we’re kind of we’re in the door now.
You know what I mean?
Jackson Lanzig: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I will say we, I don’t think we ever expected to get a chance at captain America this quickly. We, we really thought, you know, Hey, we do. A we did a job that we’re very proud of on Kang, the conqueror. That was a book that we loved, that we had wanted to do for years.
And that we actually got to have, you know, got to get out there and get it sold. And the people really engaged with reviews were solid. And I think all of that just really hardened us and we’re like, great. That’s amazing. I hope we can do another Marvel books. And for that to turn around and say, Hey, all right, do you want to come in and pitch captain America is still just truly surreal for us.
And our, and a really really beautiful, a really beautiful thing that I still feel just very lucky that we got the shot at, at even bringing this idea of the table, let alone getting to bring it to life with an artist of the caliber of Carmen [00:36:00] Bernero who is, I mean, truly people are not ready for what she’s laying down on this book.
The acting people know that her acting is good. Like people of all, I think she’s been lauded a lot for how excellent her characters are and how much you can live in the small spaces. But we also gave her encouragement to really blow open the action in this book and try to create a signature action style, because as much as I love captain America, and obviously we really do, we lifelong readers of this character because action sequences can become very, it’s very easy and you can see it now once you’re writing it how easy it is to just be like captain America throws his mighty shield.
And like, you, you, you write that and it sort of, it’s always going to be a good image, right. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s going to be like a striking or new or vibrant image beyond the. The nature of the image. And so we’ve really tried to look at like, what other ways can you use this character?
How else can we express his athleticism and his durability? How can we express his, [00:37:00] that, that that no, you move attitude that he has in his heart outwardly in the action. And not just make it captures the shield, captures a shield, captures a shield. And I think that’s been a really fun challenge that then when we handed it to Carmen, Carmen was like, oh, I got this.
And you just get these gorgeous action spreads. And you’ll, you’ll see what I mean when you see what she does in issue one. But I think it really starts to come to life in a huge way to share to I’m.
Melissa: So envious of artists like her, that can just, I have no artistic visual, artistic skills. And I’m like so envious that they can just literally like interpret and bring to life.
It’s such an amazing skill.
Jackson Lanzig: Yes.
Collin Kelly: I mean, yeah, when we, we, you know, we, we do our damnedest to panel everything. You know, we panel everything. We’re going to fill it with all of our best ideas, but there is nothing that feels better than an artist, you know, going rogue in all the best ways, taking your thoughts and being like, look, this is very cute writers.
I really like how you think the state should go, [00:38:00] but please step back. The artist is here now, and this is what we get and you’ll stand back and you say, yeah, I’m good at your job. I’m glad to trust you to do
Melissa: it. It takes the stress off of you too, because you know, that’s, I would think that’s what you want.
Right? You want somebody who’s just going to take control and be like, I got this. You just right. And I will take care of everything else. You know what I mean? I think that’s a good thing. Yeah.
Collin Kelly: All we have to do is worry about telling the story of one of the most lauded and celebrated characters in all of narrative.
The history of Meredith representing most tumultuous country at one of its most tumultuous times in the history of its Timmel. Chris,
Melissa: no pressure at all.
Jackson Lanzig: Well, see, I wasn’t nervous about it until now. Thanks Collin. Oh,
Melissa: no. Refs skies.
Well, you know, speaking of art, I’m absolutely obsessed with that. Batman urban legend cyber punk cover. [00:39:00] Oh
Jackson Lanzig: yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Well, what a, what a killer cover, right? Yeah. Matina just did an amazing job
Melissa: on that. Amazing. And so that’s, what’s so interesting. Is Cedar doing captain America? You’ve done star Trek.
You’re doing that man as well. And I have to ask you, because I’m super curious about this one. You’re doing the flash and Aquaman.
Jackson Lanzig: Yes. So yeah. Flash Aquaman void song is a wild. Project cause it’s one of those things that, you know, comes together for obvious reasons. I, you know, I don’t think it’s any surprise.
These characters have movies coming out. So when you have a flash movie and an Aquaman movie coming out, so close to one another, you want to have an entry point for comics, fans for new people, for like movie fans to come into the comics. And I know that there’s, every time one of these movies comes out, people always talk about, well, how are we advertising to, you know, comics to these people?
How are we getting all the new fans who are learning about these characters? Into the books like don’t, we want to convert them into comics, fans. And [00:40:00] so Aquaman flash Boyd song is our attempt at that. Void song is independence day for the DC universe. It is a story about these two unlikely partners, two characters who do not make a lot of sense together.
Their powers are not terribly synergistic. Their attitudes are not very synergistic. They have extremely different opinions on sort of the state of the world and really different contexts in terms of the kind of stories that are told for them. And so what we wanted to do was take them and put them up against an overwhelming force, a force that can shut down the rest of the justice league in minutes, a force that can stop the entire world.
And that only these two men can remain immune. How do these two, now that they are the only two heroes left to solve this problem, rise to the occasion, learn to work together. And what secrets about one another are revealed along that way. That’s going to stress and test that new partnership. It filled it a really exciting opportunity to take two iconic characters that people know very [00:41:00] well.
And certainly that people will have met in the movies as solo individuals and show what it means for them to become friends over the story rather than as what happens in a lot of our stories with Kirk and Spock or Steve and Bucky. You know, coming into the story and already being besties. This is a story about two guys who do not really like they’re like friends for work, right?
You are now stuck on a road trip together and really have to learn to get cause if they can’t learn to get on, then the whole world is done. And that’s not to mention the voids on themselves. The. You know, enormous monolithic cathedral like alien race that is about to come and destroy earth from right underneath their feet.
So the big story of just extreme silver age scope, but very personal states where I suppose very silver age stakes and very personal scope, depending on how you want to read that.
Melissa: Interesting. Yeah. I, there are two heritages. I would never have thought to be like, like you said, on a road trip together, or, you know, I mean, yes, they’ve [00:42:00] been in the same room.
Having a story like centered around them together, having to work together. I just, I find that really interesting. I’m really curious to see what happens.
Collin Kelly: Yeah. A lot of fantastic friction between the two of them. You know, Jack and I, his origin story actually kind of evolves along those same lines.
Whereas we when we first started, I guess in my direction, I really did not care for him much. I guess I was the kind of I was the Arthur Curry in the situation, maybe a little too full of myself, thinking of myself a little bit too Royal. And then along comes this hay along comes this plucky fast-talking guy who charms the hell out of me, Jack.
I think we’re just writing ourselves again. Oh
Jackson Lanzig: no. I mean it does, it does make a lot of sense. Yeah. But
Collin Kelly: one of the fun things that we did discover about them as we were writing is the thing, one of the things that does unite them route, but other than their, you know, true horror core is they love their wife.
Like both of these guys are white guys and gives them something that’s [00:43:00] very relatable. It’s something really bonding to you when you realize when you both realize that there’s something. But the person that they care about most in the world is, you know, the woman they love is their partner. And that’s incredibly relevant.
You know, Jack and I are, we’re both been married for a little bit now, but the bloom is still there. There’s nothing more important than not only protecting your home, but protecting your family. I think that’s really something that we spoke to with this story, very with a lot of authenticity, really just looking at our own lives and saying, you know, what would we do to protect the people we truly care about from the world at large, that intention and that personal story is what comes through in voice on,
Melissa: yeah, really relatable, I would think to a lot of people because yeah, you want to see that side and not so much, you know, the womanizer type of, you know, superhero or villain, I guess.
Jackson Lanzig: Absolutely. Well, I mean, I think that’s it. It’s also just, when you look at these two characters, it’s one of the fundamental. [00:44:00] Cores of both of them. It was one of the few places where you could look at these two guys and say they could relate to one another. That when that when Aqua man his morning his morning mirror, because both Mira and Iris are caught up in this cataclysm that is going on when, when these two men realize that you know, that both of them have this emotional, raw core that.
That they cannot escape that they, this is not a a fight. They are in any way able to walk away from even if the whole rest of the world were falling apart and they could just walk away because they could not solve it. Neither of them can because their wives have been pulled into this. So anything that they owed a Superman or Batman, they owe 10 fold to Mira and Iris.
So it really made all the sense of the world to say, okay, this is, this has to be a story about two men pushing one another as hard as they can to get the only thing that truly matters to them. And learning over the course of that, that in fact, they’re not the only thing that matters to them that these two men matter to each other and that [00:45:00] male friendship, which is his own, you know, sort of Livewire that people have a hard time telling these kinds of stories, but we very much made our bread and butter out of it since, you know, since activists and since day one because it is something that we live every day.
I felt like a really fun place to be able to walk in and try to tell that story here. So, you know, this it’s not, it’s not going to be a void song is a, is a graphic novel, you know, in three parts, big 48 page issues that they’re all gonna get rounded up together into, into one big you know, graphic novel.
This, this book is not going to be 120 pages of Naval gazing about how sad we are, that our wives are gone. Like it’s, it’s going to be, it’s going to be 120 pages of giant silver age, flash Aquaman, action, science fiction, badness, but at the core of it underneath all of the bright, shiny lights and the incredible Vasco Georgia like silver age art, there is a.
Modern human core about having love and losing love and fighting [00:46:00] for love and land sort of discovering platonic love. So I think all of that is going to be really fun for people to catch up to. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It should. It, it could have just been called Aquaman, the flash romance, but we felt like maybe that set the wrong tone,
It might turn some people off who knows? No, I think, you know what I you’re right though. Superman and Lois on, I think it’s CW right now. I think they do a really good job at. Sort of like Superman balancing, you know, Rick Clark balancing like family and the lover’s wife as to going out and saving the world and how that’s affecting his kids and and their lives.
And I mean, she’s such a bad ass. She’s like, oh, I got this. Like, you know, which is awesome. So yeah, I definitely think that’s important to show more in comics, especially as more of adult people read comics, you know, of course there’s kids that read comics, but a lot of these comics now are geared for at all.
Jackson Lanzig: Of course, I like to sort of aim our stories at every one. I think we really try to make our stories available to all readers. [00:47:00] So if you’re a, if you’re a younger person and you’re reading these stories, maybe you’re reading a little bit above your life experience, you know, you’re not married, but.
These, especially superheroes are models of behavior, you know, they’re models of, and certainly the DC heroes and, and captain America are very unique in that regard too. They are like true behavior. So you do learn morality from how flash interacts with something or how Aquaman interacts with something.
And certainly I learned morality by how Steve Rogers interacted with things. So I always think that, like, you can tell adult stories for kids. I think kids can absorb a lot more nuance than we give them credit for. But you want to do it in a way that. Embrace the darkness of the world so much that these kids are, are being dragged down into that.
And so we were really trying, always to tell hopeful and optimistic stories that still have [00:48:00] stakes and like a true human heart. These are not perfect people. In fact, a big part of void song is a betrayal between these two men. That’s going to really fracture their relationship, but that betrayal is there so that we can talk about what about how you, you move through those kinds of things, how you process betrayal and how you come out.
The other side of it. You know, yeah, I think it’s an opportunity to. Hmm, maybe teach a little bit about what we’ve learned about collaboration and about the sort of subsuming our own ego. Yeah. Subsuming our own ego for, for partnership and for the sort of collective game. I think
Collin Kelly: the strength and vulnerability, I think that’s something else that really speaks in all of our work is the only way to be truly strong is to allow yourself to be weak.
And that is so antithetical to so much of what superhero stories are about. You know, the greatest moments don’t come from lifting, lifting a car, it comes from making that impossible [00:49:00] choice to lift the car. And I think that’s just something that we, we, we, we never will shy away from vulnerability. I don’t care how many muscles you have.
Melissa: Yeah. And I love that you guys write character driven stories. I mean, you have these explosive plots, of course. Do you have a world that’s already set up with so much plot that exists and that you expand upon? Of course, but I feel like that’s sort of the two of you really specialize in character driven
Jackson Lanzig: stories.
I, yeah, it is. It is honestly a huge compliment to us to, to, to say that because that is our aim at all times, we, as our express aim whenever we start a story to not allow that story to be driven by plot it is so easy in comics for a story to be driven by plot or for story to be driven by idea.
And I think is so important to us. And maybe it’s because we come from film and like a film education background, and maybe it’s because [00:50:00] we, we both come from a very like, We, we come from stories that we, you know, the stories that we grew up loving were, were very creative, you know, character oriented.
But I think we have this test that we apply that other writers can apply. If you’re listening to this podcast right now, and you want a good exercise in terms of like how to get your story, to feel character oriented, rather than plot oriented, the way that we always do it is we say, okay, what if we took everything about the story that we’re telling, like flat flash Aquaman Boyd’s on.
Okay. A story where hundreds of alien spires surround the planet earth and start leeching our kinetic energy and making everybody sing a crazy him that only two men are immune to. And those two men happened to be acclimated in the flash. They’re going to have to fight back with all of their super powers to save the day.
Okay. Right. Take all of the genre out of that, pull the spaceships out, pull the void song out, pull that kinetic energy nonsense out, pull out the fact that they’re Aquaman and the flash pull out all of that. [00:51:00] What’s the story like? What’s the what’s, what’s the tale. We’re still telling story about two men in a overwhelming scenario with a lot of stress on their back who have to learn to rely on each other, even though they don’t have a lot of trust.
Well, that could effectively be a David man. I’m not saying we’re David Mamet, but I’m saying that playwright, like, man, it could write the exact same plot, but he could write it as a man at play because it’s character oriented because the end of the day, when you strip it all back, can you just stage it in a black box theater?
Can you just stage it with two people having feelings Batman beyond yes. Is the story of tearing again in the aftermath of losing Bruce Wayne, going through, you know, fighting the living city that is VO Gotham, as it tries to eliminate the very legacy and concept and idea of Batman, but at its core, it’s the story about a man who has lost his mentor and has decided that the only way to properly.
Carry on that legacy is to be as lonely [00:52:00] and as isolated and as damaged as his mentor was and is learning the folly of that opinion and learning the danger that, that puts you in. When you start to try to embrace the darkness that isn’t in your heart, that’s a character, that’s not a plan, you know, and I think that’s like captain America.
Yes. It’s the story of learning the secret truth behind captain America shield. But what it actually is, is the story of two men learning that they want to deal with. You know, learning that there’s a, a deep guilt that exists in both of them for past actions and learning that their reaction to that guilt is going to be.
Fundamentally different. And that, that might really drive a wedge between these two men. That’s captain America’s plot, but it’s very captain America’s character, but it’s not captain America’s plot. Right. So we always go back to that. We say, what can we do to strip back all the plot and just look at character?
And then once we know that the character is good, we know what the sh we know what the story is about. Harbinger is about Peter. Stanchak learning to forgive himself. Then, yeah. All [00:53:00] right. Now we can put all the science fiction back onto it. We can put all the genre back onto it and we can put all the plot and all the action and all the cool stuff, all the ideas, get to go back on top of that.
And as long as they don’t bury that core, fundamental character core, as long as the story still hinges on the character, not on the plot, then you’re going to end up with a character driven story. And we, we really do do that exact exercise with every story we tell.
Melissa: That’s great advice for anybody listening.
I’m taking that as well. You know, as a writer myself, that’s really, really great advice because you hear different variations of things like how to be, you know, how to write a plot driven story versus character driven. But I like your breakdown of it. It makes more sense, you know? Yeah. And now I actually, I want to see you guys write vision.
Jackson Lanzig: Ah, so do we, but I mean, I will, but I, I will say I think it’s very hard to write vision after Tom. I think Tom King’s just incredible take [00:54:00] on vision was so iconic and so immediately influential that to come in on that character would really require us to have something. Really have something to say about that character.
And I’m not sure where that lives yet. I will say that for a lot of the thematic core of what a vision story might be. We do have a thing coming up. This is my, this is our tease for next year. Right? Next time when we come out of this, we we have our, our big. Cosmic mind exploding, strange 2001 style story.
It’s coming down the pike and it is a it’s going to be very, very cool and very is, is another total like real dream project for us, like childhood dream project, but also. Is at its heart, a character study and these like very specifically built on a ton of character. So it’s going to be it’s going to be a fun experience when we can finally talk about that book.
I don’t know when that will be. We’ll do later. Hopefully later we’ll do one of these every year. And you’ll say,
Collin Kelly: well, last [00:55:00] time you tease me with this and we’ll say, no, here’s the reveal, but we do add four teases.
Jackson Lanzig: That’s us. That’s awesome.
Melissa: Yeah. And what, what’s the status on blue and gold
Jackson Lanzig: then? Oh my God. I wish I knew.
No, no status blue and gold is, is a thing that we get to do someday in the future when the, when the stars are aligned and the time is right. Yeah. We talked
Collin Kelly: about that idea folder, you know, you’d never have idea, never dies. It just goes in the drawer. Well, Yeah. All
Melissa: right. All right. Well, we’re still putting that out into the universe, sending it out.
Yeah. And before I let you guys go, I just really quick, how is harbinger going? Is that series so ongoing? I know last time you said you, you were going to do it as long as they would let you.
Jackson Lanzig: Yeah. It turns out they would let us do it. So issue eight will be the last issue of the harbinger that tends to be balanced model.
Right now they’re doing sort of short series, right? They’ll do eight at eight issues, 12 issues around there. We’d initially plotted for 12. We’re going to end up doing [00:56:00] eight. We’re actually working on issue eight right now. It’s Robbie’s going to be drawing throughout, you know, through the whole series.
So we’ll, we’ll be having the same team on the book up to the very last issue. We’re going to be telling a complete story. We’re getting to the ending that we always planned. Basically we just cut out sort of a section of the middle that we were going to do and just went right for the good stuff.
So, starting bloodshot fans. Yeah. There’s going to be a whole bloodshot thing now. There’s not sorry guys. But, but there’s a but there’s a really great wrap-up coming. And I think we really got to say everything that we wanted to say about about Peter and, you know, talking again about character.
That’s we’re getting to the end of the character story that we had always planned to tell. And so knowing that we’re getting there has been very exciting whether or not we do anything more at Valiant is, you know, remains to be seen. We certainly have some ideas about where that might go, but in all honesty, our schedule is so insane that we’re really trying not to commit ourselves to new projects right now.
So it’s been, it’s sort of been a push and a poll just internally, not even with valley, just with us about whether or not that’s going to be a thing that we can you know, comfortably [00:57:00] continue doing. But you know, that book means a lot to us. I’m really very happy that people responded so well to it and that you know, it turned out very much like the book that we all wanted to make.
I’m really proud of it. And I hope people, I hope people stick around to the end. It is going to be. You know, for, especially for time harbinger fans, but certainly for people who’ve been picking up this book and, and learned to care about Peter here, it’s going to be a a real wrap-up like, we’re, we’re not going to leave you hanging.
We are going to now we’re definitely going to be putting a a big period at the end of the sentence. And one that I think is is going to be really really lovely. So I’m, I’m, I’m very excited about it. We’ll
Collin Kelly: recommend what the final issue is paired with black lights and pink Floyd psychedelic, my brother
Jackson Lanzig: as, as, as in general, as is always the case with the harbinger.
If you can get a little weird before you read it, you’re, you’re better off getting that mind frame. Yes, definitely getting that mind
Melissa: frame. Well, that’s exciting. So people have a lot to look [00:58:00] forward to, you know, I mean, so much stuff. Harbinger, captain America, Batman. Oh, my God, you guys are so busy.
Jackson Lanzig: came a conqueror, came the conquers. Now in trade. People can get our whole game to conquer a series. Now from marble us, that’s came the Cocker only myself left to conquer it’s available out there. We’re so proud of that book. It turned out so well. And star Trek year five. The last trade is coming out.
I think this month, maybe next month. And that’ll be the whole dang book out in trades. If you’re a star Trek fan and you haven’t jumped in on your five yet the entire series is now available for you to read. And I think it’s going to be a real I think it’s gonna be a real. A heck of a read for anybody who hasn’t gotten into it yet.
See whatever, see what all the Trekkies are talking about. Yeah.
Melissa: Oh, I’m sure they will be clamoring for it. That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming back on and like chatting and sharing all your news with me. This has been an awesome
Jackson Lanzig: or absolute pleasure. Thank you again for having us. We love being here.
Melissa: And for everybody listening, you can follow them both on Twitter at Jackson Lansing and at CP Kelly. [00:59:00] Cause you guys are both pretty active on there and you release a lot of your announcements and tease us a lot, but
Jackson Lanzig: Trump Trump on into a Q and a, I promise to give you half answers.
Melissa: I love it. Yeah. Thanks again for coming on.