Global Frequency Studios – Kim Cassidy, Aaron Neff and Garrett Gabbey Stop by!

We get the crew from Global Frequency to stop by and chat it up with Jeff Haas!

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Interview scheduled by Jeffery Haas

Theme music by Ardus and Damn The Cow

Announcer: Nathaniel Perry

Global Frequency Interview

Jeff Haas: . [00:00:00] Hello listeners. Let’s polar country today. We have some very special guests from the global frequency podcast. We have Aaron nev Kim Cassidy and Garrick Abby. How’s it going guys. Thank you for having us. I’m doing very well.

And I want to thank you guys so much for coming on the show. I had the honor of being on your show. A few weeks ago and it was a fantastic program. You do a very great podcast. Thank you very much. Cheers. So for our listeners, if you want to check out the global frequency podcast, please do so they are fantastic, but today we’re talking about a combo of yours.

So first thing I always ask my listeners is what inspired your love of comic books?

Aaron Neff: I was a seven, I think, and I was going to sleep away camp. And it was a scary time for a young seven year old going away from home for the first time. And my dad gave me some GI Joe comics to take my mind off of I guess being lonely and [00:01:00] scared at sleep away camp.

And I found solace in those pages. And from then on I I associated comic books with just a feeling of secure. And then of course I read X-Men by Jim Lee and the rest is history.

Garrett Gabbey: For myself, I’ve always been an artist I’ve always drawn. My parents supported that when I was really young. They, you know, I got into all kinds of, kind of like fantasy board games.

When I started showing that I really liked fantasy artwork. Probably when I was like nine, my dad gave me a whole bunch of old heavy metal magazines, which is probably not good for a nine-year-old, but you know, it’s the first thing he gave me was a photocopied compilation of all of the Mobius stuff.

That was his run. Jerry Cornelius and the airtight garage. It’s something along those lines. And I pour through those pages and I was like, is there more? And he’s like, well, none of that, but he’s [00:02:00] got plenty of stuff in here. Just don’t tell your mom that you get to like look through all my old mags.

But that really kind of sparked my interest in fantasy illustration and sequential stuff. And I kept on seeking out more and more from that.

Kim Cassidy: I started out more with like mad magazine and the far side and Calvin and Hobbes, which aren’t like comic books per se. But that was what I was reading.

Yeah. It’s controlled art. That’s what kind of got me into it. And then when I was like an angsty teen, I got into Emily, the strange and Lenore and bear and all of those, and that’s kind of how I got into like, Comic books instead of just like

Aaron Neff: compilations Johnny, the homicidal maniac. Yes.

Jeff Haas: Well, well, I think is really impressive with you guys, is that unlike a lot of people, dream of making the leap from reader to creator and you guys are making the leap right now from reader to creator.

So [00:03:00] what fins, what facilitated that transition at what point did you guys feel ready to make that leap?

Aaron Neff: We’re supposed to feel ready? I don’t think it was so much of a decision of, well, let’s do this now. It was more of a, why haven’t we done it yet? We’ve been talking about making these stories for awhile.

I’ve been writing for awhile. Garrett does art and. I think it was a cheese how long ago now? I can’t quite remember.

Garrett Gabbey: So I remember for me, I’ve always wanted to be a, some kind of artist for how I make men’s meat. I went to school for painting and it’s a tough gig trying to figure out how to do things.

Art-wise I met up with Aaron at one point. And he was telling me about the story for Mavericks. This must’ve been 20 15, 20 16. When I was thinking he was wondering if it was five here. Yeah. Oh, was a while ago. And I was really taken with his ideas. It was, [00:04:00] he had some really impressive thoughts about this kind of scifi story that I’d never heard of in a story before.

And I was like, yeah, dude, we should do this. And it’s kind of one of those things where you just hang out with your friend and you’re like, yeah, we should do this. And it never happens. But a couple years later we kind of had this opportunity to, to really start working on this project and we started actually getting into it.

And. You know, I, I ended up quitting my, my terrible job selling cars and he sort of just doing illustration work full time and doing more and more Maverick stuff. Once the pandemic hit, we really kind of started. Taking this a lot more seriously. We had nothing

Aaron Neff: else to do

Garrett Gabbey: the silver

Jeff Haas: linings of a pandemic.

Garrett Gabbey: And we realized that we weren’t talking with [00:05:00] anybody outside of ourselves. And in order to make a comic successful, you don’t just have to draw it and write. You got to share it with people

Aaron Neff: like your wonderful listeners on

Jeff Haas: spoiler country. Thank you for the plug.

Garrett Gabbey: But I mean, personally, I, I love hiding. I don’t, I don’t like being online.

I don’t like commenting and you know, Aaron and Kimmy took on the Herculean task of actually promoting

Aaron Neff: us. And I got a Twitter account.

Kim Cassidy: Yeah. And we started a YouTube channel and it’s been super fun getting to talk to all sorts of different creators and hear their stories, both of how they got into comics and what they’re creating now.

It’s been really, really,

Aaron Neff: yeah, I think that’s it in the best part about coming forward as a new creator ourselves has been meeting other creators who, like you said, took that. Transition from fan to creator and sharing our experiences with them and [00:06:00] listen to theirs and being able to commiserate over some of the bumps and bruises that we got along the way, some of the hurdles we’ve had to overcome.

It just, there’s a nice kinship to that. And no matter who you are, if you’re a creator, there’s a familiarity there that we can all appreciate.

Jeff Haas: So when you’re doing, once they end up the podcast and the YouTube channel, how much of that is pure fun for you guys to do it? And how much of it is actually, or was turns out to be a type of research to figure out how to go about completing and working on your own projects.

Aaron Neff: Well, I think since, I mean, it was kind of the decision on my part that, Hey, you guys, we should do a YouTube show to like, you know, find out what other people are doing and talk to other individuals who are making comics and find out how to be successful. I think part of it was the need to promote and get ourselves known.

Within indie comics are talking to other indie creators. I thought was the best way to do that because [00:07:00] they have fans. You meet them, you meet their fans you network that way. But one of the other great things, like when we had you on our show, we get to ask you what advice do you have? And it’s a nice roundabout way of saying, please teach us your secrets.

Jeff Haas: I wish I had secrets to give. Unfortunately,

Garrett Gabbey: one of the things that I’ve noticed about. You know, interacting with people and being more visible, I guess in the, in the comic scene is by surrounding myself with other books, I’m constantly looking at our constantly drawing. I’m constantly kinda like provoking my brain to absorb more information.

I think I’ve probably grown more as a comic artist in the past year than, you know, the previous 30. And it’s kind of like a silly thing to have to, you know, go through this to realize. But when I was going to [00:08:00] school, you know, painting, if you’re surrounded by other artists, you’re surrounded by other, you know, artwork, you doing it every day.

Become amazingly talented in a very short period of time. If you stop doing that, stop surrounding yourself with new art, new other artists, talk to them, you stop growing. So I think w you know, fun aside our campaign aside, all that I’m really appreciating what it does for growing my creativity. W

Jeff Haas: as well as when you’re talking to these other indie creators, what sort of commonalities were you noticing either through, from personality or their approach that you guys were able or able to absorb in moving forward with the European.

Aaron Neff: I think that there’s an incredible diversity of the way people have had their approach. That’s one of the great things about it. It’s nobody’s story is the same. There are similar elements [00:09:00] learning the storytelling process where people’s love of comics began, how they got a education or taught themselves to get sequential storytelling.

Right. Because there’s no. Real manual other than Scott McCloud. It’s something we’ve heard from other creators to figure out how to do this. So everyone kind of has a different story in, or, or can recount a different tale on how they got here. But then once we. Got into this world of, we want to make comic books.

We want to learn how to make comic books. We want to satisfy that desire to make comics and to have people read our comics. Then that’s kind of what makes us all the same. And there’s a driving passion in the creators that we’ve spoken to, that they want their stories to be good and to be loved. So I think no matter who we’ve talked to, all of them want to please their fans and the audience as a whole.

Jeff Haas: I like that idea that there are many roads to. Is there one coming road to failure that you’ve noticed talking to [00:10:00] indie creators?

Aaron Neff: That’s a hard

Kim Cassidy: out of the people we’ve talked to. I, I think most of them have actually been fairly successful, but when they’ve talked about pitfalls that they’ve come across on their road to get there.

A few of them have said not being prepared. It has definitely hurt them, whether that’s not understanding how to set up your campaign page or not understanding, you know, how to network and get your name out there. So they’ve, they’ve really kind of all come down to not talking to other people, to get those bits and pieces that you can’t find out there on the internet.

Cause you know, you go on. Kickstarter or Indiegogo and they have all those checklists and make sure you do these things, but there are some pieces of it that you just, you don’t necessarily know until you’re in it. So like talking to other people and other creators, I think has really been what a lot of [00:11:00] them have said, like.

Has helped them succeed. And also in the past when they haven’t done, that has been part of a stumbling.

Aaron Neff: Yeah. If I could just jump onto the end of that, I would say you absolutely nailed it. Not talking to each other, not talking to each other is the best way to not succeed. Having a a.

Non-functioning community. When we have people come on our show, we talk about what’s worked for them. What’s worked for us. What hasn’t worked. I often ask them what hurdles have you had to encounter? And we’ve had several people on our show who I’ve been, I’ve spoken to them in the bathroom. Like, Hey, I noticed this about.

And pain or, Hey, have you considered changing this on your campaign or here’s an anecdote from our personal experience developing our campaign. And it turns out that that advice can go a long way to changing a person’s success or failure. Whether they’re not they’re crowdfunding. I mean, I know we completely redid someone’s page with them because they weren’t quite sure what they were doing.

And they really desperately had a [00:12:00] great product that they wanted to get out there, but they didn’t do, I guess. Research and learning about how to spread that word. So for us, I guess that’s also been part of the way to succeed is to talk to other people and cooperate.

Kim Cassidy: We’ve been in back rooms with people we’ve been, Hey, can we help on a, you know, just a streamer that we don’t broadcast.

Get on a video chat. And can I show you what I have so far and get your feedback on this. And, and that’s been really great to to be able to reach out to other creators that have been through it. And when you’re, you’re almost there, but you know that you’re maybe missing something or you just want eyes on it again, to make sure that you’re on the right track.

You can just kind of. Grab people and they’ll hop in there with you and be like, yeah, that’s great. Or Hey, maybe change the color on this or tweak that.

Aaron Neff: And that’s not to say that everyone’s going to do that. Not everyone is, is excited to participate in that kind of thing. Right. And not everybody [00:13:00] really wants to be engaged in that way, but those people who don’t, they’ve probably already tasted their own success or they’re marching to the beat of their own drum.

And that’s great for them. And I would hope if I asked them questions directly, they’d be willing to answer them, but it’s, I find it’s like a natural or almost Nacional thing amongst these indie creators where we just start helping each other. We just start talking to each other. We just start trading secrets.

I mean, they’re not even secret. I learned about additive and substantive color the other day, the writer, what do I know about colorful? You know, that’s, that’s what I’m talking about. Like we get to talking about the craft, the art, the process, and that makes us, I guess, United in that way,

Kim Cassidy: some of it has come from people in our chat too, during live streams.

Like what Aaron was just talking about. We had, we had our. So just this past Wednesday where we kind of did an open free for all, because we were getting [00:14:00] ready for our campaign. So instead of interviewing one, gastro, just let you know anyone who wants to come on and talk about their stuff. And people were talking in the chat and we started talking about color and someone else had asked, Hey, what’s the difference between CMIK and RGB?

I don’t know that. And then our panel and also people in the chat were adding. You know, edited, coloring, subtractive color. And there was a whole color theory lesson going on. And it was just really fun and not something that I personally would have been exposed to had we not jumped into this. And

Aaron Neff: then one of the panelists plugged their art videos where they go into precisely that.

So suddenly there was a place for us to actually learn that color theory. We never would have known that if we hadn’t had the dude on our show, instead of talking about that stuff, you know, so I guess just being open to people. It’s probably the best way to not fail.

Jeff Haas: So you guys just determined with the combo that you’re going to go the crowdfunding route which as someone who’s tried it myself has [00:15:00] I’ve failed several times.

I was successful my last time. Thank you guys left for that help. Great. Well, thank you.

Aaron Neff: I just sat there and looked at a comic.

Jeff Haas: I I’m indebted to you guys for the help. In kickstarting Mavericks, what are you looking to kickstart? Is it the production of the comic book? Is it the distribution of the comic book? What, what, what is the primary goal of this Kickstarter?

Aaron Neff: For me, it’s the. For me, it’s it’s the property in its entirety.

I want people to get into the book as a whole, because it’s not one book. It’s an ongoing series, Mavericks origins. There’s two parts to it. Volumes one in volumes too, but those are just the prelude. To the main series. So really this is kind of the moose Boosh to get everyone you know, to get our name on everyone’s tongue, to get their, to, to wet their pallets.

And so we can satisfy their appetite and too many food puns, [00:16:00] but, but really what I want. It isn’t so much the production side. I mean, we’ve got, we had to make sure that that was. You know, we don’t want to like not fulfill and it wasn’t so much the comic book writing or art design, cause Garrett does the art and I do the writing.

And if we didn’t have that, we couldn’t have a property anyway. It’s to really have people become part of the fan base. So that for us has been what crowdfunding’s been all about. It’s recruiting people to become interested in our IP.

Kim Cassidy: We really believe in it. It’s a good story. And we want people to read it.

We want to get it out there and to have it available to,

Garrett Gabbey: yeah, I think it goes back hand in hand with what the biggest stumbling block of a lot of creators is, is you need to be out there. You need to be interacting on social media. You need to be networking with people because if no one’s aware that you’re making a comic, no one reads the [00:17:00] comic.

I th per you know, I, what I see the main benefit of crowdfunding is that it’s this exciting event. It’s a campaign that can attract people. And if you have friends that, that are promoting you and you’re going out and, and going on people’s shows and promoting this, it starts to gain momentum and people want to come see this this event, the spectacle all the cool stuff that you can get with it.

And that just brings more eyes. And I think the best part of creating something. But at least my opinion is being able to share it, having people see what you created, read it and go. That was awesome.

Aaron Neff: Where’s the next one? Yeah.

Garrett Gabbey: Yeah.

Jeff Haas: All right. So, so the combo that you are producing is called Mavericks.

So can you give our listeners your R however you guys want to combine it, give your pitches for ma Maverick and why they should be excited about this comic book or is it [00:18:00] volume has graphic, novel or comic book?

Aaron Neff: It is a graphic novel it’s 60 pages and that’s just part one. So part two is probably also going to be 60 plus pages that would be in that Mavericks origins, as it stands as a, as a volume would be around 120, 130 pages.

It’s not really a comic book and it’s being released into installments. So no floppies, no trade straight to the sequential storytelling in graphic, novel form, as far as the pitch I’d say it’s about a world in the future where. New battle lines have been drawn between two countries and origins is about exploring the conflict the root of that conflict and how that progresses into the main series.

I have an actual pitch, but I don’t have the document in front of me.

Garrett Gabbey: I will tell you what excited me about

Aaron Neff: this project while he does that. I’ll find the pitch. And

Garrett Gabbey: this goes back to the conversation that he and I had. [00:19:00] All the way back in the day at that coffee shop. Do you

Aaron Neff: remember the coffee shop?

Garrett Gabbey: I think it was actually just a Starbucks.


Jeff Haas: Advertisement for Starbucks affiliate money. Now

Garrett Gabbey: the the thing that he pitched it though was one, it was about Mecca,

Aaron Neff: right? Oh yeah. I forgot to say that in big,

Garrett Gabbey: you know, pilots in giant robots. But it wasn’t senseless Mecca. It wasn’t just like, oh, robots are cool. What’s just have them, you know, shooting at each other.

It was actually a really developed, like drama about MEK pilots. And furthermore, it was about the technology of these war machines and how an artificial intelligence. Takes on a new role that I had never actually heard of before in a [00:20:00] scifi. And I tried to rack my brain. I was like thinking through movies and books and no one had ever done something like this with an AI and with a Mecca.

And I suddenly started getting really excited because I was like, man, this could be so cool because this could be something. I’ve never seen before. This could be an actual, like new entry in the Mecca zone. That stands on its own. So I was immediately on board and I was like, what I have to do is I have to make this cool enough.

I have to make the explosions. Awesome. I have to, you know, make the tech look cool. So that readers get through to this story because the story really is incredible.

Aaron Neff: Yeah. Origins, like I said, is the prelude. So the pitch is very narrow. It’s just like, No, it’s a, it’s a beginning store. It’s a starting point.

What [00:21:00] Garrett is talking about, this, this story about an artificial intelligence and the new entry in the Mecca genre and a way of looking at the future. And, you know, I guess the development of humanity that’s Mavericks as a series. Let’s

Garrett Gabbey: just, let’s just put it this way. This is origins for a reason.

Yeah. Ad words. We were very careful to. Really put a lot of Easter eggs, a lot of groundwork. There are no throwaway characters in this book. Little details about people come back around as the story progresses. Dialogue, all things in this book have reason for being there and justification. And if, and I hope that when, when you read the second volume, you’re going to go back and go, oh my God, that was in the first volume.

And then when you get to the main series, you’re going to go, oh my God, that was already shown. Or, or the, the foreshadowing, what happened all the way back on page, [00:22:00] whatever of, of the origin.

Aaron Neff: One of the best ways to be successful is to do things deliberately. So I

Kim Cassidy: have the actual pitch slash synopsis.

If you want to hear it. And an alternate version of our world ravaged by a global collapse, dubbed the cascade rival nations by for control over what remains as this war between the Northern continental Alliance and the unification of Django outrages on both sides. Pursue a technological key to ultimate victory.

Now in the skeletal remains of war torn Olin, Batar a squad of six rave pilots sent on a seemingly mundane mission to rescue a group of refugees will encounter more than they bargained for and uncover a dangerous secret.

Jeff Haas: It sounds very cool.

Aaron Neff: So we kind of wanted to leave it a little bit cryptic so that people are like, well, what does that mean?

Jeff Haas: Yeah. I had the pleasure to read the first, I think, seven pages of the preview comm book. It was fantastic. I, the [00:23:00] art, I thought it was absolutely incredible. And one thing I did appreciate a lot that there was, you did at the intro paragraph leading into this. Yeah,

Aaron Neff: email on the, on the front cover or the

Jeff Haas: front cover.

And one quote that I thought was very interesting or one phrase was the word benevolent invasion.

So can you kind of explain what you mean by that and how the nation, which I think is unification of Zen. I’m going to mess that up multiple times. That’s

Aaron Neff: okay.

Garrett Gabbey: I messed it up too. You can refer to them as the unification.

They’re colloquially. We refer to them as the unification.

Jeff Haas: All right. So let’s call them unis.

Aaron Neff: So you ever read the story about Alexander? The great, yes. So take the Seeking a common road between two cultures out of it. And look at the, my army is giant [00:24:00] and massive. Your states are fractured and weak. You can become part of something greater than what you are now, or you can perish under the fires of the cast.

So when the cascade hits in the future, certain nations are well enough prepared and others are not certain nations, either sought. To some degree or by their design are able to weather it better and smaller nations that aren’t, that don’t have the resources don’t have the stores of supplies. Don’t have the ability to adapt.


Kim Cassidy: Yes, geographically able to survive what’s happening.

Aaron Neff: I mean, no one wants to be next to, you know, a fault line when there’s an earthquake, right. The unification takes it upon themselves to say, Hey, we’re going to expand our borders at this point and bring the safety and security of our larger, more illustrious nation to the surrounding landscape.

And if you [00:25:00] want you can be part of it. And if not, then you probably should go.

Jeff Haas: So, and like pacing, the unification is a group called the Northern continental Alliance. Now, are they protagonists only or are they protagonists? And the heroes of the story?

Aaron Neff: I like this question on it. So

Garrett Gabbey: the, the, the, the two nations Norka and unification are nations and they have pilots and they have characters.

Live within their borders, but, but neither of these nations, I would ever call a protagonists or heroes. I think the part of the exciting part of the, about this book is that these are kind of a look at what might happen to the idea of a nation in a future that, that doesn’t look [00:26:00] like ours. Right? The, the cascades kind of an important part of this whole thing.

Aaron Neff: Well, the cascade cause one bad thing happens and it kind of sets off a series of chain reactions where other problems begin to Mount and a pile on top of that until one thing after another, after another, it just leads to an overburdening. And we’re talking about like ecological disasters, but also geopolitical disasters and economic disasters that arise out of a result of.

Economic and geopolitical disasters. So the future transforms our world and nations change, but it’s the people that determine whether or not things are done good or things are done for ill. Yeah.

Garrett Gabbey: So how do

Jeff Haas: you balance world-building with character development?

Aaron Neff: I don’t know,

legitimately. I CA I can’t, I can tell you my experience and. And I do a lot of. I do well. I, I do also a lot of research too. I don’t read, I, I say I don’t, I [00:27:00] don’t read, I don’t read things. I absorb information because I’m researching them and decoding written letters with my eyes to get meaning from them.

But it’s not like reading for fun. So I do a lot of reading about the world. I’ve do a little bit to see. Cause you know, we go out and we travel, but I, I believe that you have to know what you’re writing about. So the best way that I could say to balance world-building and character development is that your characters all come from inside you in some way.

I’m not talking about self inserts. I’m talking about parts of yourself, speaking through the character. That’s why they’re in your head. The world that you’re setting a story in is a world of Disney. So you wind up having parts of yourself, live in the world, telling the story that you want to tell.

So there’s a really

Garrett Gabbey: cool role-playing game. It’s not really a role-playing game. It’s a storytelling. It’s a storytelling aid. It’s called microscope. And [00:28:00] it’s a really thin book. I think it’s like maybe like 15 bucks. It’s a really great read. If you can find it. I can’t think of the author’s name on the top of my head, but if you look up microscope RPG, you should be able to find stuff about it.

And it’s cool because basically it’s a game about world building. And one of the things that they do for the players to achieve this is they come up with. Basically you come up with scenes or arrows or moments within a timeline, and you agree with the other players on certain things that are off the table or on the table.

So in our case, Let’s play with the idea of Mecca. No superheroes, no superheroes are off thought. Magic is off the table. Lets you know, mutants are off the table, off the table. Let’s play with,

Aaron Neff: Technologies on the table.

Garrett Gabbey: Post-apocalyptic stoves, apocalyptic stuff. Let’s put that on the table. And then suddenly we start coming up

Aaron Neff: with scenes.

So you got genres and [00:29:00] conventions that you’re already working with.

Garrett Gabbey: And the thing I like about microscope is that it tells you. You can always add more stuff in between moments. So if you come up with a character or a nation or any kind of thing that exists within an era, You can actually have their moment of death, their moment of birth, but there’s infinite space between those two moments to add more content about them.

And so like with a nation, you could, you could devise it’s his birth it’s death, but if you really like that and you want to play with it more and develop the world, You can just keep on going in deeper and deeper. And if you have a good team that can do that, you’re going to come up with a really great world.

That’s really character full and develop. And

Kim Cassidy: I’m gonna jump in here too, because I’ve watched this grow from its first inception [00:30:00] to what it is now. And as they’ve developed the world more, the characters themselves have changed. By what they

Aaron Neff: were put through, you have to live in it.

Kim Cassidy: So it, it started with an idea of a character and the world kind of started to build around that.

And as that got more in depth, the characters themselves had more depth and more complexity because you’re imagining what does living in this

Aaron Neff: world.

Note cards. That’s how you balance it. You write, you write different colored note cards, write character, note cards in blue or yellow. You write world note cards in green, and you write like subtextual note cards in red, and then you attach them to each other to begin creating narrative threads. So you can categorize what it is you’ve developed.

Yeah. That’s how you [00:31:00] balance it.

Jeff Haas: Okay, well, I’m going to introduce for one second. Unfortunately our free zoom is striking again. So before, before, before we get kicked out, I do want to get this information out there because it’s definitely the most important first. When is the Kickstarter going to launch and to when are they going to be able to start following the Kickstarter?

Prior as prelaunch

Aaron Neff: Kickstarter goes live on September 9th 2021.

Kim Cassidy: And we are just waiting for Kickstarter to approve our pre-launch page. But in the meantime, if you go to global, you can sign up for our minutes. And we will keep you updated on all things, Maverick.

Jeff Haas: I would also stress you guys, if you can send me the link to the Kickstarter, we can put it on the interview when it goes live and make sure we tag it.

Cause like I said, it looks fantastic. Mavericks was like a great story. I’m curious what you do with it. And I will, once again, stress out that global frequency podcast is very professionally done. I, [00:32:00] I will, I will highly recommend a rival podcast in this particular case and say, Google frequency is one to go with

Aaron Neff: steel sharpens steel, my friend.

Jeff Haas: Well, thank you guys so much for talking with me. Like I said, as soon as it goes live, I’d recommend to our listeners check out the Kickstarter and make sure you also follow it to get updates, which I’m sure will be updated fairly often.

Garrett Gabbey: Th there’s a, and there’s a free comic you can download, which is just a eight pages Caesar.

It’s 8, 8, 9 pages, somewhere around there of teaser showing a little taste of what this is going to be.

Kim Cassidy: And we can give you the link for

Jeff Haas: that as well. I greatly appreciate it. And thank you guys so much. I hope you have a fantastic night. One minute left to go.

All right. I’m going to for having nuts. Oh my pleasure.

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