Frank Barbiere and Arris Quinones talk Astonishing Times

 

Casey: right, everybody. Welcome again, to another episode of spoiler country today on the show, we have Frank Marbury and Eris Kunis, and I’m sure I’m going to mess up those names several times in a row, because I’m an idiot from Alabama.

You guys, how are y’all? Y’all are Frank you’re in Austin, Texas in Arizona. I didn’t get where 5

Arris Quinones: you’re from, man. I’m in Dallas, Texas. I’m just man. I’m three hours in Frank, Texas.

Frank Barbiere: Did you guys end up meeting up?

Arris Quinones: We actually met up through a mutual friend. It was actually like Frank’s childhood friend, Rob, and he became a friend of my friend. It’s like so many, it’s kind of weird, but he became one of my yeah. And long story short. I had a co I starting a couple of YouTube channel back then.

He was like, oh dude, one of my best friends growing up, he’s a comic book writer. Since Frank has got five goals coming out and all that stuff, it’s like, I should hook you guys. Long story short, I reached out to Frank, interviewed him for my YouTube channel. And then we became buds. We just continued talking [00:01:00] after that and years went by and like, Hey dude, let’s do accomplish together.

And then we did,

Frank Barbiere: it was era’s cause was the trade of five dos commands. So was it like 20 13, 20 14? It was the,

Arris Quinones: it was the second year of variants. So it had to be 20 13, 20 14. Definitely. So that was a long time, man. It’s been, it’s been almost a decade. That’s crazy.

Frank Barbiere: I know my, my friend who he’s referring to, I’ve known for 20 years now, so we’re very close to it.

That’s awesome.

Casey: So, so starting off Frank, you’ve been in the industry for, for a while. You you’ve worked for some of the big two, you’ve worked for image. How did you get your start, man?

Frank Barbiere: I had a pretty organic process of breaking into comics. And again, it’s something I talk about a lot and I, I like to put out there, cause I know there’s a lot of people who are fascinated about the industry, fascinating how to get started.

But when I was in college, so like around like 2005 ish, [00:02:00] I was really actively going to the comic book shop. I was reading a lot of early image books and just really. Never put together the fact that these were just kind of like create our own comics. And I read an article in wizard, I think at the time about like, yeah.

Write about how the process of like modern image kind of work. Like, oh, people literally just submit projects to them and then they put them out. And me and my. Young man’s hubris was like, I’m just gonna make a comic book and image. We’ll put it out. Cool. Here we go. And they are very irresponsibly.

Started taking money out of my student loans extra money to hire artists. I was finding just on the internet start making comic books, pictures. I kind of just dove right in. It took probably around like six or seven years from then to, for me to make work that I actually thought I was like proud of.

And I moved back home and I actually became a middle-school teacher and I had done like completely, self-financed a graphic novel called divine intervention, which came out on our [00:03:00] Canada. Please don’t read it. It’s very bad, but it’s out there. That was the first thing I ever did. And. When I moved back to New Jersey, well, I went to school in New Jersey.

I grew up in New Jersey, but I actually grew up like a few, like literally 10 minute drive away from the Kubrick school. So when I moved back home, I was like, oh wait, like the Kubert school is right there. There’s probably art students who want to work, where I can actually meet and not just have to hire people over the internet.

So I. Did a Google search on Devin are of like Kubert school people. And that’s how I met Chris Mooney him, and actually also Gary Brown, who is again, phenomenal artist. And they were both in the same thing. They were in the same class, funny enough. And I just hit up Chris via email and we went and got launched, started talking.

We worked on a book for a year that went nowhere. We made like 70 pages of the scifi Western comic that I eventually put online. I’m just like, Hey, this is what we were trying to break in with. But halfway through that, I had the idea for five ghosts and I guess we had been reading the Darwin cook Parker books.

I think the first one came out and I [00:04:00] was like, oh, we should do something like, kind of like pulpy or like this, like, I guess I’d read like Casanova, like the old, old Casanova, like. One, when it was like in weird, like big issues. And I got really enamored with doing something like that. And I was like, oh, but if we do like a pulpy, like spy thing, like it has to have like a gimmick, like what could begin to be.

And just randomly thinking one night I was like, oh, like, he should have like, like maybe like Sherlock Holmes power or something. Like maybe he can actually channel Sherlock Holmes. And from that, I was like, oh, what if we did more characters? That’s how we thought five goes like Chris through that pitch grudgingly.

Cause we were trying to work on this other book and I forced him to do it. And I think that was like New York comic con 2012. We got a table. I think I had done a short at dark horse. I had started doing some of the white suit shorts at our course at this point. And I had quit teaching and I was like, I’m going to be a writer, even though I have no money.

And I’m out of employment and I live in New York city now, but we’ll figure it out. And I, I bring that up because funny [00:05:00] enough, I ended up actually working at comic psychology when they were still very much a startup. And that’s how it kind of destined to me. That’s how I met the folks over there, who I, again, kept in touch with obviously, and really love and have a great relationship with long story short after New York Comicon 2012, no one gave a damn about the the book that we had that was 70 pages long, but everyone was looking at the like five pages of five goes, Christina and his portfolio and he hand buttered them.

It was like, this looks awesome. And I was like, yo, we should just make this book then. So we made it yet again. No one cares. He sent it to a bunch of places. They were like, this is cool. You should do this at dark horse. My editor at dark horse was like, you should do this, that image. Initially, we got no response from image because like, it was like, they get buried in submissions and it’s just hard.

Like, they’ll look at everyone, but there’s no timeline on that. So I was very frustrated and I was like, forget it, Chris. We’ll just self publish this book. So we actually did a Kickstarter in 2012 and then. I think it was New York Comic-Con maybe that was New York, common country, 11, but then in 2012 or [00:06:00] 2013, I can’t remember which we self publish.

And we made 65 and they sold out in like an hour at the comic con New York comic con. This was the first time anyone has ever read a comic that I made. I was so happy, but also so horrified knowing how much money and time it took to put this book out. And at the time like Sam Humphreys was doing like, our love is real and stuff like that.

And there were a lot of like, kind of like, oh, like self-published books are able to get into retail and things like that. But thankfully saving us all from that. Mutual creator picked it up and actually sent it to Eric. Eric Stevenson who had taken over since Eric Larson, who had initially been pitching stuff to at image.

And Eric reached out to us was like, Hey, do you wanna do the same agent? That was the happiest. And literally changed my life. So people are able to like pinpoint certain stuff. For me, it is like literally the day he emailed me. I remember funny enough will I guess w Maxwell prince, he goes by is my friend from college and he writes ice cream.

And that image has been my very good friend and trying to break into comics for a long time. And it’s clear, you’re doing great now. And I remember I was on the phone with him at the time. I was [00:07:00] bitching about how no one. Was answered my pitch and I’m so frustrated and literally on the phone with him, I got that email from Eric that was like, do you want to do this?

I was like, I gotta go. And then from there it was just a matter of, kind of like just beating the pavement, following up people, going cons, growing and growing. And thankfully, like having people be supportive and like my work in five goes remains. Like again, I think the most popular thing I’ve ever done and I really loved it, but.

That was just it and it just hit from there and kept going. And these days I actually, I pulled back a bit from comics, which is why I saw sometimes it’s so exciting. It is kind of like my return in a book I really care about, which is hopefully momentous to some people. But I actually have been working in video games for awhile.

Now. I Was up in Albany and I worked at an Activision studio called vicarious visions and a on destiny two. And now I’m in Austin. I actually work with with Joe mad comics saved Joe mad at a studio called airships syndicate, where we [00:08:00] put out a dark siders game last year called dark Saturday stances.

And now we’re working on a league of legends RPG that we’ll be talking a lot more soon and super happy, but it’s really been kind of my focus and freelance really burned me out. So. Glad to take a little bit of a break, but now I’ve kind of slowly been building this, which areas could probably speak to us years ago to a comic.

And we finally got it altogether and we were happy to bring it to cosmetology, to kind of explore everything they have there. As we really felt it was a good fit for this initial project and what we’re doing, and they got excited about it. But. That is my whole life story.

Casey: So now, now I want to hear from Eris Eris, how did you get into comics?

I know that you have an amazing following on YouTube and you, you, I mean, you’re grinding away and now you’re, you’re doing comics. So, so tell us how you got into, well,

Frank Barbiere: why comics?

Arris Quinones: Well, I’ve always it’s, you know, since it kind of started [00:09:00] when I was a kid, right. Like I always, if anyone always asks me, like you just did, and I always say on the YouTube channel, like Batman animated series and the 89 timber and movie, that’s like, what did it for me?

Right. I just always liked Batman for whatever reason, just like, you know, a lot of kids are like, oh, Batman he’s cool. 20 years batteries. That’s dope. So like from a kid who was really Batman, the animated series, and then that led to. Spider-Man the animated series and, you know, the eczema that’s like when all those animated series were like really dope because I’m a nineties guy, I was born in 87.

So by the time, you know, it’s four or five that’s when those CDs were like at their peak. And then from there, I’m basically like, okay, so these cartoon series are awesome. They’re based on comic books, you know what I mean? It’s like, wow. So this comic books are a thing, so it kinda helped me want to read.

Right. Cause I’m like, oh, I want to know about like what the, where these characters came from. There’s you’re telling me there’s way more content in the books and stuff like that. So then I would have my mom, my dad took me to complex shops. And then just like, as a kid, you know, you just see the art, like it’s all about the [00:10:00] cover.

Like you don’t care about. You know, when you’re jumping and you’re just like, oh, that’s like a dope, like Jim Lee cover. I just want that. Cause that’s cool. You know what I mean? So I would read stuff out of order and stuff like that, but I just always loved it. And from there, that’s what really sparked my love then I just my dad would often go to.

Like working right at Barnes and Nobles. And I would go with him and then, you know, I’ll get the omnibus and stuff from like the Marvel golden age stuff. So I actually like, even though I’m a nineties kid, a lot of the stuff I read was like, you know, when everyone was reading Wally west in the nineties, I was reading Barry Allen because I was going back to like the omnibus and stuff like that.

So it’s funny considering my age who asked me, like, who’s your favorite flash? I’ll still say Mary Ellen, just to, just because that’s the one I read, even though Wally west was my technique, my era of flash. But from there, you know, flash forward, I just love comic books. And then flash forward to like 2007.

My brother-in-law had a, a pretty popular DIY filmmaking, a YouTube channel called film riot. And he was on revision three, [00:11:00] which was owned at discovery digital at the time. So that’s that, you know, it was getting pretty popular and he wants to do another show. So he’s like, dude, you like comic books go by this time.

I dunno, I just turned 34. So I was like, I don’t know, 25, 24 around there. So like

Frank Barbiere: 2007. What were you doing if you don’t mind me asking? Oh, so at that,

Arris Quinones: yeah, I was literally a warehouse manager for Tyco in a Boca Raton.

make sure the inventory comics. I was like, well, living at home, you know what I mean? Just at a car payment and a cell phone payment. So there was nothing. So like there was nothing, I was really at that point in time, like I wasn’t really trying to be in the comic book industry at all. I was just like a pure fan, just watching all the movies, buying the toys, buying the comic books.

But I was working out again with my brother-in-law he’s like, dude, I want to start another. You love complex. Would you want to, co-create a complicated channel with me because this was like, again, like the start [00:12:00] of the MCU, like this was when I was at the time 2008 was the Ironman and whole right. The first

Frank Barbiere: one that makes me feel old.

Arris Quinones: So, you know, we’re all like, oh, this, this is a thing, right? It’s like the emergence of like the post credit scene where they’re all linking together. It’s, it’s a universal. Let’s do it. And then we basically from 2008 to like 2011, it’s like, that’s a lot of people don’t realize like variant was like in, you know, in creation behind the scenes for like three, four years, which was, which was weird.

Cause we, I had never hosted anything before, so I was horrible. Like I was like, what do you mean I have to talk it a camera I have to read and make it look like I’m not talking. I mean, like I’m not reading. This is, this is weird. So we would shoot a bunch of pilots and he also had to convince provision three, cause it was the discovery digital.

I was good enough to host. So funny. I didn’t find out till years later that like, they were relationally, like, no, like we don’t want this guy. He’s like, trust me. Cause he had a really popular show with him at the time. So like he had like a little bit [00:13:00] of slice of like, look, trust me, like, you know, I’m doing this with them, we’re doing it together.

It’s gonna work. So, we did it, we launched it in 2012 the year, the first Avengers movie came out and man, I people always ask like, how did the channel, cause right now, Oh, you know, almost at two and a half million subscribers on YouTube, like how’d you get the channel, so they how’d you grow it. It’s like, I think it’s a mixture of.

We hit at the right time. Cause again, this was like when the, the MCU was like all culminating with the first Avengers movie. Cause now we’re, we’re spoiled. Right? We’ve seen like, we had so many like end game of failure where we’ve seen it all pretty much. But back then it was like, the Avengers are assembling.

Oh my God. Like it was crazy. So you had all this interest too from people who normally didn’t read comics, they would go to YouTube. They’re like, oh, there’s Hawkeye. This guy. She goes in arrows, black widow. Like she’s like this mercenary assassin, like girl, like let’s. So they would go on the internet. And we wanted to make a channel where it’s basically.

You know, we will tell you the history of a complex character in 10 minutes. So I’ll tell you everything you need to know about Batman or at least like the big points, [00:14:00] 10 to 15 minutes. And it, you know, it worked because people wanted to know they would see the movie they wanted to know about the character in the comic industry.

You sign up, you know, blow up a little bit again. So that’s kinda like how it all started. And then, you know, we just kept trucking along with different show types of history of a still our big staple, or again, it’s like, we’ll take the history of any character, you know, Spider-Man break them down in 10 minutes.

We do versus episodes, a lot of pull episodes, which is basically, you know, we’ll break down a storyline. So like, this is the killing joke in 10 minutes, this is, you know, flashpoint in 10 minutes or whatever. So we’re basically the easiest way to say it is. I think we became like, The complex school, like for dummies, I guess, or just the casual fan.

That’s not like, you know, us, that’s going to deep dive and read a hundred back issues. They just want to know in 10 minutes, you know,

Casey: it’s funny. Cause I talked to creators now and especially guys that work at the big two and I’m like, do you ever feel just buried under the burden of all of that constantly?

Right. Just, [00:15:00] you know, sometimes 40, 50 years even more continuity. And I forget who it was. There’s a song by the band. Called the night, they drove old Dixie down and he says, you take what you need and you leave the rest. And that’s basically like his philosophy of, of writing for comics because you can’t, there’s so many different just things that don’t add up, if you want.

All of the continuity. So how do you whittle all the bullshit?

Arris Quinones: It’s hard, right? Like, I think that’s a big reason why the channel is like successful because I’m basically doing all the hard work for you. Right? So like legit, I don’t think people realize. ’cause I, I would say I know a lot about complex.

Right. But there, I there’s no way I know everything. You know what I mean? Like there’s, it’s just impossible. So people like, you know, they’ll talk to me automatically expecting me to like, put out like dates and issues personally. And I’m like, I can do that for a lot of carriers. Not all. Cause there’s a lot of, so I’m constantly learning.

Right? So it’s fun in that sense where it’s. There’s certain characters like [00:16:00] Batman, spider, like my favorite character is that for the most part, I could be like, yeah, this right. But then like black widows is a good example, right? Like red guardian is in the, is in the, is in the movie now iron maiden, you know, I’ve read them in Avengers books, but I didn’t read them a lot.

So I don’t know that much about them. So I had

Frank Barbiere: to go back.

Arris Quinones: So like red guardian is like the Soviet, the Soviet captain America pretty much. Right. That was like their answer to captain. So, like I had to go back and like, learn about him, read and do all like the cliff notes, read some issues, you know, go on some sites and just get, see, like, what’s the major story on it.

So I had to learn a lot myself. And in fact, that’s the cause, you know, complex, it’s called book nerds, you get something wrong. They’ll let you know.

That’s that’s like the hardest part. So basically it’s a lot of time, man. You know, I, I kind of have a process now where like, you know, I even structure things to where if it doesn’t make sense, like you were just saying, cause it’s a lot of times you can’t really make it make sense. Like there’s a saying on the show that we’re probably gonna make it through a [00:17:00] t-shirt it’s like, because comic books, right?

It’s like the most annoying, I think episode I’ve done to date was the history of a reverse. Oh, dude, you don’t even know that was man. I think that episode took me like a week to write just because of all the timelines. And you had the it’s like, even when you understand it, you’re like, wait, does that make sense?

Cause he did this and he did that, but no then that they rebooted it. Cause Jeff Johns did this. It’s a lot of work is the short answer.

Casey: I think the only character that is just as, if not more convoluted would be like hog man or somebody like that. And that is just.

Arris Quinones: Funny enough, there’s one, a Hawk, man.

We’ve put off. And so it’s funny, you mentioned that cause we were going to, we’re going to have to do it when the black, the black Adam movie comes off, but also the, what is it? A blackest night, the black side storyline, just because it’s so big. And I feel like to do it justice, you have to really read and make sure because if you miss a bar and be like, how’d you miss the part where like the white lands did [00:18:00] this, it’s just, I’ve read it.

But it’s so big. It’s like, it’s just daunting. I’m like, wouldn’t it be. A little bit, we’ll do the killing joke.

Casey: So you guys are, you have a book now that you’re working on. And it’s coming out through variant, correct?

Arris Quinones: It’s coming out through comics, ology, but we are, yeah. We’re, we’re pushing it through very well. That’s cause not to go backwards a little bit, but that was, I could let that cat out of the bag now, since, you know, the book is announced and stuff, the, one of the main reasons, I would say like half, if not more, so the reasons we did variant, it’s like, Hey, we’re gonna, you know, get an audience, build an audience.

Hopefully, cause that time we’re like, hopefully this works. And once we’ve a mass. We can create content and then be like, here, we’ve created something. We have a built in audience. You don’t have any, you know what I mean? So that was a, that was part of the idea. And we finally, almost 10 years later [00:19:00] are, are hitting that aspect of the channel, which is.

Casey: All right. In five words, tell me astonishing time now. I’m joking.

Frank Barbiere: Eric, do you want to speak to the, kind of just how, when we started talking about it more, because again, I had been making comics and kind of went into hibernation and areas actually hit me up. It was like, Hey man, like, I really would love to know. About the process. Like, I want, always wants to make a book and we got talking, but you want to talk more specifically how we ended up looking at?

Yeah, sure.

Arris Quinones: So, like Frank said, like, you know, I’ve, I’ve known him for a few years at that point. And at that time he kinda, you know, was on a hiatus accomplished. He didn’t ha didn’t write a book for a few years. Right. Frank was, it has been a while. Right.

Frank Barbiere: Yeah, I think, cause I feel like we had talked about this way and in the past, cause it kind of wanted to do it for so long and I was like, yeah, we’ll we’ll, we’ll get there.

And you’re like, well I need to find like a good time. And I think it was probably around like 2017 when we started actually seriously trying to figure it out. And that’s like right. When I think I got into games, I think violent [00:20:00] love was at image was wrapping up. And that was like the last day guy, like.

What’s taking. So, yeah, I think I was like, I’m just kind of chilling out and thinking about my next move. So let’s just like blue sky this,

Arris Quinones: so yeah, we’ve been talking about, but I don’t think I ever told you this Frank, so it was, I think it was like 2010. I think it’s kind of funny, but like I caught the flu right from my, from my daughter and I it’s a joke with my wife.

Right. So like, in my, like I had a high fever and stuff like that, like hundred and four or five fever or whatnot. So like in my like delirium or whatever, like my sleep, I joke, I said I had a fever dream. And in that was like an idea for a comic book, right. Where I had this whole like thing. I’m like, oh, this is really cool.

And then that was the thing where. I know we’ve been talking about this Frank, but like this, like I have this initial idea, the book is nothing of what that initial idea is now, but

Frank Barbiere: it was more the villain book.

Arris Quinones: Well, we might do that later. We’ll get way too much. So I want to save that. It [00:21:00] was very, it was, yeah, it was, it was a very different.

But we could say it was centered. It was more villainous. Right. And Frank was like, well, what if we do this? Like, I like that aspect. So what if we change this? And then, you know, as things naturally do, when you’re, you have a Coke and you’re talking about stuff, they just evolved. And like Frank has ideas.

I’m like, oh, that’s cool. And then I come up with an idea and he comes with another idea and it becomes this completely new thing. And that’s, that’s what pretty much happened in a man. From there. It’s a bit, I’m looking

Frank Barbiere: away.

Arris Quinones: It’s a go because once, because it took a few months to, cause you were, you were traveling.

It’s like China around that time.

Frank Barbiere: Because when I went to Japan and Singapore and I was, I just remember, I gave you these artificial deadlines of like, listen, I can’t think about anything until after I got back ‘

Arris Quinones: cause we were bouncing ideas back and forth and it was like, eventually, you know, we landed on something.

We’re both like, oh, this is dope. Cause I remember it. Cause. I can’t say that it was more of a villain story, but you were like, let’s do something more hero story. Cause [00:22:00] mine, the initial idea was like, I don’t want to say it because I kind of want to use .

Frank Barbiere: I, I wouldn’t say like for me it was the like number one genre.

And I think I, there is this initially like genre I don’t want to do is superhero stuff because it’s so hard to stand up on that. And, and again, I’ve worked at Marvel and DC. I had done. I had done the only like superhero J like adjacent or like kind of facing book I had done was a book called black market with one of my favorite collaborators, Victor Santos, who co-created and enter that book.

And that was like a four-ish and creator owned series that we just did about like, oh, like what if there was a world where superheroes were kind of assholes and someone found out that there was a cure for everything in their blood. And it was very much like breaking bad meets superheroes was like the early pitch for that.

And I had done that and loved it and Admittedly, one of my favorite comics of all time is powers. And that’s really what got me into. Making comics like in an indie space really too. Cause I, of course I love like big two stuff, but powers was the thing that really brought me even into like [00:23:00] what image was modernly and what I told Eric was like, listen, I really don’t know I’m going to have to like come up with something that I want to say.

But then air brought me all his ideas and his passion and that got me excited again. I’m like, okay. Okay. But I feel like that’s part of why I was like, Eric, wait till I get back from Japan and we’ll figure it out because I did a little bit of surgery. Cause I always was like, I had some ideas in the back of my head, like, like notes, places.

Like I think I had like disappearing hero story question, mark, like written on my written on my computer notepad forever. But but once we started talking that’s a fall came up again and I thought about like, okay, if we did like a definitive superhero story, 20, whatever year we were first talking, like, what would we actually want to say?

And if you remember those, those were like the talking points. Like I quickly gave areas like highfalutin writer, like, no, what are we saying? Like, but thankfully, like we really aligned and that helped us like hone in like beyond the cool plot elements. [00:24:00] And one of the things that I, that. Like about co-writing is it’s more like people, people do it all kinds of ways, but like, for me really co-writing is exciting because it’s that like breaking story, like you’re talking together, coming up with the Fios and like figuring out what you want to do, not being like, okay, you write two pages, I write two pages, you read to it.

And again, some people do it like that. No. Hey. But like, for us, it was much more of like, okay, well, what do we love about superhero comics? What do we want? Do with it. And that was really exciting for me because that’s the kind of stuff that I had been thinking about a long time. And as I said, like, I just didn’t have a take, I was ready to put out, but through our conversations, like, I feel like we came up with one that was very personal, very timely.

And. Yeah, not to get into marketing, speak about the book. Astonishing times is very much that like our like, answer, like, okay. Like create our own superhero stuff for the most part is either like your love letter to the nineties. [00:25:00] Watch me, I love letter to like, or like you’re a shitty version of Batman, like, and we’ve all done it.

I’ve had a lot of shitty versions of other superheroes over the years. But for me, like with us, I was like, let’s really find something that is ours, that speaks to things we want to say about superhero comics and. That was the impetus of it. And I’m so, so happy with where we ended up in we for a long time.

Like we, we went through a lot of different. Our teams as that is one thing that happens with comics.

Arris Quinones: It’s funny too, because like, I’m like the fresh meat, right? So I’m like, is this normal to go like this

Casey: many artists? Well,

Frank Barbiere: I think it’s so hard. Cause like when you do stuff with a publisher, typically they’ll assign new people or introduce you.

And for us, we got Lauren AFI, our colorist onboard very early as she’s worked with me. Well, it’s up to our, here was on five ghosts and [00:26:00] has done a lot on her own as well. And I was thankfully easy to wrangle her and she’s a collaborative work with a lot, but artists was just like, and at no fault to anyone, but just like people’s schedules were filled, we would start making a pitch because we didn’t know where we were going to publish this either.

I was just like, let’s just make some, we make a pitch, which is these five pages. And like, let’s go, like, we wrote like a big outline that like, A big, like, I think the first issue, but but I just want to use this to shadow our artists recall men who we thank the Lord ended up with as he is

Arris Quinones: such a nice

Frank Barbiere: dude, but like such a talented artist.

Jumped in so fast and was able to get this book done and be just like a key co-creator with it, to like really elevate the stuff and really like get the work and like go through every single page with us. And he is phenomenal and I’m sure we’ll, we’ll link him. I think like that, but he really was like, kind of like that missing soul of the book too.

I feel like once we started getting these pages, ripped him, like came together [00:27:00] as thankfully we didn’t get so deep as to dry, like a whole issue from anyone, but we had like four different people drawn the first five pages of this book. Rudy was,

Arris Quinones: we was dope too. Cause I felt like he elevated everything.

Right. Cause we would have, you know, we would script things out and then he would just, you know, change little things. And when he was like giving us pages, we’re like, oh no, that’s so much better. Like there’s one action. I remember specifically I’m like, that is so much better than what we wrote.

Frank Barbiere: And I’m like, listen, the artists will do all that.

Yeah. I’ve had a career full of like being very lucky with my collaborators and brewery. And then Lauren with brewery has been an absolute delight. And we, you see some of it in the in the teaser trailer we put out and nurses announcement, video, just some of our characters and some of them are.

Before I just prattle on and on. Casey, is there anything more specifically question-based you’re interested in now, like

Casey: I’m willing to explain the title, if you could just [00:28:00] astonishing times, have you guys come across.

Arris Quinones: Well, I think like, you know, like I think like the, the, not to be sales pitchy, but like the easiest way to like, summarize like the book, right. This it’ll, it’ll ultimately explain the, the title is like, it’s kind of like a reverse Watchman.

It’s like how we kind of like to like, you know, push it in a sense, like if Watchman is. That explores like, yeah. Superheroes are supposed to save us and stuff, but they deal with like a lot of crap. Like it could be rapists, it could be bad. They’re just bad people. You know what I mean? Like, you know, so that’s what, one of the main themes for Watchman, right.

Where it’s like, yeah, we’re supposed to look up super heroes, but like, they also could be really crappy people as well. So maybe we shouldn’t always look up to them where our book is. Right. So it’s like to show the, like the heroes are something we’re supposed to look up to. Not necessarily always for them to like save us, but just to like, you know, it’s like a line that we use to, you know, look up for a better tomorrow.

Right. So it’s on the brighter side. Right, right. It’s on the brighter side of things. And especially with like, you know, the last year or so I think it’s something that’s really going to be a hopefully below. You know, some [00:29:00] positivity where it’s like, it’s like a love letter, right. It’s showing us like, why do like us kids subconsciously?

Why are we drawn to superheroes? Right. It’s like, kind of why, why do we really like superiors when you really think about it? It’s like, you know, cause inherently, I think people are good. Like overall. People do want to be good. Yes. There’s a lot,

Frank Barbiere: right? Yeah.

Arris Quinones: So, you know, it’s like, it’s kinda like the whole thing.

Like why do kids want to be like doctors or firefighters, all that subs because you know, they help people. Right. So I kind of feel like same thing with super heroes. So that’s kinda what we’re exploring. It’s like, You’re going to be crappy, there’s bad in the world, for sure. But at the end of the day, you know, things are, things are bright.

Things are we’re living in astonishing times. You know what I mean? Things are good.

Frank Barbiere: And that’s a long time to get there. Like we had some other names that I won’t bring up that were cool, like in their own. Right. But I feel like it was literally like right when we got Marie on board and we were like, seriously finishing.

Like the key outlines, like [00:30:00] we had a base outline, but then actually breaking it into issues. We were like, damn it. We need to name this book. What are we going to do? And I remember that was the first time I actually hung out with artists when we were writing together. Not just online. We were just like sitting in your office, like doing the old white board.

Like, what about this? What about this? What about this? I think a lot more than paying the acid. We’re excited. We all

Arris Quinones: know that’s a good story. Our title, title, title. It’s a bit

Casey: like naming a child though. Cause I mean, you’re stuck with it. If you get the wrong name then, I mean, that’s true. You don’t want to pick the name for a comic that people are going to.

Make a pun out of, or make we haven’t got any of that. I’ve tried really hard to come up with something about astonishing times and I can’t. So you guys did a good job.

Frank Barbiere: I think the one thing too, I can say that, that isn’t a spoiler that we’ve in this world, dark areas. It’s hard to talk about some of the book as it’s not out yet in the lab preserve a lot.

Well, we have put out there and what we can say is like the main [00:31:00] character is a journalist and he writes about superheroes and that was a really big infer me, like was like, oh, like, I think that is a cool angle that we don’t see. And he’s lives in a world where superheroes have been around for a long time.

Obviously very much supposed to be a mirror of ours where like we’re all over it a little bit. Who’s still kind of like deeply cares about them. The name of his column is astonishing time. So that was my whole thing is I’m like whatever the book is.

Arris Quinones: I remember we had cool names where like the title of the book would be cool, but that was really worked for his column.

Frank Barbiere: There were a few, and then I’m like this one’s a poem and we can have.

When we cannot, especially times like, first of all, there’s the annoying like, oh shit, like let’s SEO and make sure that’s not taken. Thankfully it’s not, you know, obviously like it evokes a lot of like classic titles. Like obviously it, it just really works. And we feel like [00:32:00] captures the essence of the book.

And even like some of our like marketing partners and stuff we had to convince of it. Like, I think we’re a little skeptical at first, but then once they saw the awesome logo that our logo designer, Dylan, Todd, who is. Another person I’ve worked with since five ghosts. He also he’s amazing. And recently he did like department of truth and things like that.

He works all over and we were so lucky to get him to do a production design for our book, as well as the logo. And it just kind of clicked. And as Eric was saying, like, we want to have a really aspirational, but still exciting. And. Again, our book, isn’t all hugs. There was some dark stuff that happens as well on the whole, like, we didn’t want to just retread, like, and that was for me, like the hardest part, right?

Like I love Watchmen and like one of my favorite books, but I never wanted to do like, Frank’s shitty Watchman to read that. And that’s why as a writer, I tend to be very, I think I really want to just work at Marvel and DC.[00:33:00]

Anyone can be like, tell like a cool, like, oh, like the superhero faces a challenge. She finds some power that wasn’t there. Five pages ago, fights them and beats them and wins and everyone hugs and you know, like that’s a totally viable way and can be cool if it’s drawn. Well, like, but for us, for me, it was like, oh, but like, what can we say?

Like, now that I care about that again, isn’t overly preachy. Isn’t overly negative, but like means something. And I will say that my whole thing was like, I find it so fascinating that like Marvel and DC, like Marvel more so sorry, DCU, but films are the most popular movies in the world. And while I think they hit like some good thematic stuff, like people look at those movies, feeling more inspired.

Frank Barbiere: , [00:00:00] but long story short, just like, what is like kind of the like aspirational, like thematic thing about superheroes that we can push and really tell a story we care about. And I’m over on DC. I said like I learned like, oh, a lot of times, like, yeah.

Like people come for the characters, but then I think the truly great. Pieces of work there, which disappointing the I’d ever achieved at my time at Marvel and DC. But like it really went to creator and a team, like find something to say with it beyond just like the coolest aesthetics and, and what’s happening because we dropped that so much and that was, I want it to print to this book and I think we definitely did.

And I’m super proud of it, but also why like, without sounding too, like, Kissing the butts of journalists. Like I know obviously working in car fix, I’ve spent so much time talking to journalists in Arizona. People who commit their lives to talk about this stuff. And I feel like it goes so much deeper other than like Batman, things like that.

And a big platform for the book [00:01:00] is talking to journalists and being like, oh, well, why do you write about superheroes? Like, why do we think this is stuff that’s still worth talking about? That’s why not being a total nerd? I think it’s cool that we have that meta in our book a bit. We have, and again, I don’t think it’s like hugely spoilers, but like our main character in the books father was basically the Jimmy Olsen of the world.

And he inherited that mantle. But now he’s in a world where people are kind of burned out on superheroes and he still carries that torch. And in that I feel like was a really good angle for us to pursue like, Why does this stuff endure? Like, what is it about what people got wrong about it? Like, what have people gotten, right.

And like, how do we recontextualize this? So please something that I’ve been able to get excited about. Like, when again, Erin said I had to speak at length.

No, like you’ve seen the way people respond to this material, like talking about it for a living. And for sure that that was what really fascinated us like, oh, like how can we put that [00:02:00] into our story rather than just like, oh bad guys versus good guys.

Arris Quinones: Well, that’s the, that’s another interesting thing.

That’s another interesting thing I think is like doing like, basically like. You know, having created this, this, you know, online, compa community at all these years, it’s kind of like, you know, you, you read all the comments and you interact with them and you even make friends and stuff with people. So you kind of know lean become to know like what people want, at least for like, you know, that community you’re you’re in and stuff like.

So it’s, it’s really interesting. I was on Frank, you know, while writing this, I’m like, dude, we gotta do stuff like this. Cause like, you know, that’ll be cool for this. Or, you know, like you even kind of get a sense of like, you know, based on how the videos you’re, you’re you’re publishing or doing like what taught.

What’s not what people want to hear. So like it’s, it’s a really, it’s something that’s never been done before. You and making comics, at least not the way we’ve done, like people do Kickstarters and any stuff like that. But like, this is completely, you know, different. Like I think now there’s even been some like comic artists and writers who have their own YouTube channels and then they do their own [00:03:00] Kickstarter and stuff like that.

But that’s like, well, of course everyone’s going to support like a Jim Lee. Right. You know what I mean? Like a YouTube channel. So this is like really, really different. But I think, you know, it gives us an edge up in the sense that like, You know, we, we have the built in fan base and we have that. We kind of have that sense of.

What is kind of doing well and what’s not, you know what I mean? And it, and it’s, again, it’s just, it’s really just, not even so much of that is just, we wanted to do a love letter to complex. I think that’s like the easiest thing, going back to like the title of the book, like Frank kind of touched on it briefly, like astonishing times.

It’s very timely in a sense, like amazing fantasy. The fantastic for the incredible whole, if you know, it has that like astonishing times that very like, you know, nostalgic. Superhero feel to it, you know, it was about

Casey: to say it kind of hearkens back to an earlier more Morrison age in comics, right? Yeah. So,

Frank Barbiere: I’m sorry, go ahead.

Okay. So one, one thing in areas, give me the, give me the like goon thumb, if I’m like getting too far to marketing plans, but a. [00:04:00] One thing that really excites me about having Varian as a platform as well beyond just promotion of the book is like I have never been shy. Like I was an English teacher before I was a writer by.

And I’ve always been fascinated about talking about how comic books work, like how you actually go from being. Just someone at home to making one. And that’s something we really want to like bring to the audience as well. Like, Hey, this is how we made this book. This is how you could actually make the book.

Like, and that is just so exciting to me. And also to be able to put on YouTube for free, not have to be like, oh, pay for my master class or things like that. Like that is information we really want to get out. Like as well as like. I’ve been talking to a lot of other creators, like what do we have the chance, like talking to journalists?

And this would be excited about it because as I said, early on, like, I burned out real hard on being a full-time comics writer. Like I was so tired, I wasn’t excited about things. And again, it was really not cool because I loved comics so much. And this project has really been the perfect thing [00:05:00] for me to remember like, oh, Hey, this is the stuff I do care about.

And being able to. One tell an awesome story with Eris, Rhea, Lauren, but also like work with variant to like make cool content that I think gets people who like this medium who liked this genre excited and hopefully like gives like a tool set. Also start moving forward. And again, I’ve been so happy to see so much of the Barrett audience be like, it’s my dream to make a comic book to be without me being like the guy I’m like Andrew pet.

Arris Quinones: No, that’s, that’s the thing I think so cool too. Cause like, obviously like Frank, I, you know, Rory Lauren, you know, all, all of us who created the book, like we want it to be successful and we wanted to do it. Cause we, this is the story that we came up with and we want to tell, so obviously. We also did it, like I started on vain, like for the audience at two.

Right. Cause it’s like, it’s like Frank was speaking to it’s very much going to be like, we made this thing as it was always like, you know, a dream and stuff like that. We’re doing it. It’s here. Awesome. This is [00:06:00] how we did it, and this is how you can do it too. You know what I mean? Cause like Frank said, that’s not letting you know, we, we already said that in the, the announcement videos that we’re going to be doing, like round tables, like, you know, like how to Frank and I script the book, how did you know, what was it like with the two of us going and Lauren and developing the color palette?

What was, you know, developing the world or brewery? Cause like the visuals is like one of the biggest, arguably the biggest part in the sense of. You know, if someone doesn’t like the cover, the art, they’re not going to get the book before they even read the words. So like just all that stuff, it’s very much going to be like, this is comic book.

We hope you like it and stuff, but also even if you don’t necessarily like the book, this is how you make a comic book. So at least that’s interesting to you, you know what I mean? So I think we’re going to hit like a lot of

Frank Barbiere: aspects, you know, and I won’t go on and on about this, but that is one of the things that looking back on my career, I love about comics.

The fact that it was accessible, that like I can go from. Just being a college kid who moved home, living with his parents too, like, oh, I could go to a con. And like, [00:07:00] I still remember talking to people who I then ended up like working with like at cons as just a fan and them taking time and being kind to me and telling me about their process, what they’re doing and like paying that forward is always important.

If that, like it, comics is a special medium, because that is accessible. I remember telling someone who was in film about it once and they were like, Jesus, it’s not like I can go to a convention just like talk to Steven Spielberg, like off the cuff. But yeah, you can talk to anyone like, and especially in those early days, like in most of my friends who I was like breaking in with like, my friend Matthew Rosenberg, who I’ve basically broken the conflicts with.

And we’d at the same time, like at Brisson who actually like broke it just a little before us snuck in but like Mike Bracey like everyone, I know who like pushed to break into comics is now making comics. And that’s like really cool to me and really rewarding to see like, Hey, this is a very attainable thing.

Like as long as you don’t let the. Knowing parts get you down. And yeah, there are other [00:08:00] circumstances that can, can set you up. But I, I think it is still such an accessible medium, and that’s why I really got excited with this project to bring that knowledge, to bring areas as a basic platform and remarkable.

Yeah.

Casey: Awesome. Awesome. Real quick. How do you guys handle? Cause you’re you’re co-writing this correct? How do you handle the going in? Like who handles? What do you, do you write a pass and then pass it on to Eris? Is there a spread, a pass and pass it on to you? How, how does that work when you have a COVID.

Frank Barbiere: In a true collaborative spirit. Paris, do you mind if I start?

And that’s the one thing like I’ve written many, many, many comments, fortunately at this point and For me, as I said, the interesting part is not like physically scripting a comic is almost like a moving script. Like yeah. There’s like rules and you need to like, be able to like use grammar and things like that.

But largely it’s about communicating a story to an artist who’s going to drive. So the exciting part for me is actually figuring out straight up what is going to happen [00:09:00] versus launching times. What we did really is just. Talked a lot and just like broke the story, like went back and forth like, oh, I would love this to happen.

I would love this to happen. And what I was able to do with at least my background and teach a little bit, it’s like, oh, well, here’s the structure of the 20 pages. Like we need to do now, take everything we discussed and break it down. But for me, like, and I’m a very talkative person. We basically like talk out every single beat of every issue.

And then just wrote like bullet points of like, Hey, here’s pages. And then just, I took that, turned into a script, pass it to Eric. Eric would do a pass on the full script. We’d add the dialogue, do a pass in the dialogue and it was done. But really what I consider the writing of the book is those conversations we had and for sure is always the most like rewarding stuff for me.

And almost more how writers’ rooms work in TV. Interestingly, like people don’t realize that. Typically the way writers work, because people will talk out an episode and then one of the writers would go write it down and write the script. But [00:10:00] it’s that breaking together that is really like a fun, collaborative process.

So for me, it was really rewarding to do that into a comic as well. Because again, I, I say this all the time, like I don’t care about being one who writes, like panel one, John walks into a room. It’s more about like, what happens.

Arris Quinones: That was, that was the most interesting thing to me, because again, this is the first comic I’ve ever written.

So like, you know, I was joking early on that I was like, Frank is going to be my Yoda. Right. Where like, cause, cause he had, because as far as like the basics go the rules, like, like, all right, lay it out for me. Right. But like, you know, everything Frank said was right. Like we would, that was, we basically wrote in that sense, like when he came to the studio of packing, like a 2018 or something like that, we basically wrote the whole story.

Like in the sense of. This is everything that’s going to happen on page one through 20 for issue one. And then we did that for all the issues, right? So we had the entire outline. We knew where I was going to start, what was going to have in the middle and how we were going to end and, you know, and all that stuff.

So we had the structure of like the entire [00:11:00] first arc, which I feel like is something that you think would be common sense, but it’s so often just even in TV shows, movies like any storytelling. You know, clearly you didn’t know where this was gonna end. You know what I mean? Like, I guess we

Casey: have to look at game of Thrones, right.

Arris Quinones: Or like lost or something like that. It’s like, oh, clearly you didn’t like, you know, but right. So, and that’s actually, you know, we wrote taking him down.

Casey: I’m sure he stared at us.

Arris Quinones: So we wrote the whole story in that, like what 12 hour day we spent just writing. And then from there. Put it, but,

Frank Barbiere: but we had also been talking for two years about that was, that was really when we broke it down, as I was saying.

And I feel like did the like writing?

Arris Quinones: Yeah. And as far as like characters in the book too, it was just a lot of like, Frank, what do you think of this character wanting to do this and that? And he’s like, oh yeah, that’s cool about this. And then we just agree on a name and then it’s kind of organically happened.

Frank Barbiere: And that is something that I’m not shy to say. I leaned on eras a lot for, for that excitement as [00:12:00] I have. It was super excited for that

Arris Quinones: part. I was like, I got this little idea for a

Frank Barbiere: character. I was very burned out when we started this. Probably a bummer. Sorry. If I was in the things that interest me about writing is like, and this is like, I feel like some of the people I tell at work.

Bummed out, but this, but like, I don’t love, world-building like, I love story. And drama and superheroes are obviously a lot more fun than I think some other genres. But like when we started talking, I was like, well, we need a character. Who’s kind of like this. And I would let era’s chew on that and bring that energy of like, oh, I want to do someone with like this power set or things like this.

And that would then inspire me and back and forth. So in a lot of ways, like if you’re a writer who’s tired, Try coding with someone because that’s how you can bring excitement back. Like, I know a lot of people who do writing teams and for me, it was like a breath of fresh air because I am very collaborative and some people like to like have total control and be alone and just like secret and out.

But like, I like working with [00:13:00] people and I think games has helped me a lot with that too. Like realizing like, oh, like I like when a project has a lot of creativity in it in comics will always be the best to me though. Cause it is such a small pool, but. Being able to just like, have someone else inspire you as a really like healthy thing for creative writing.

And again, probably why most places like in TV use writer’s room and things like that, because one person doing it can be very daunting

Arris Quinones: that worked in our favor too. Right. Because it was like, you know, you didn’t, you didn’t necessarily want to do, you know, put all the work into that where I’m like, no, I got this.

Like, I want it. You know what I mean? And then the things that like, I wasn’t well versed and it’s like, you got that. So it literally quite literally balanced itself out where it was. It wasn’t divvied up. Cause we, you know, we all had influential and the entire thing, but it was more like, okay, I like Frank was saying, I’m more excited about this.

So I’ll just focus a little harder on this and you’re better at this. So you’ll focus a little harder on this and then we’ll meet in the middle. You know what I mean? So it worked out really well.

Casey: And

Frank Barbiere: truly, like I said, for me, like from the more mechanical side, I feel like put into [00:14:00] practice. As I said, some like, this is how I would love to like continue to co-write and a lot of people do it differently.

Again, there are people who will straight up be like, I’ll read the first 10 pages you read the last 10 and. Perfectly valid way to do it, but this for me, because I am a talker and breaking the story is always my favorite part. Like really like got me in a head space and like, oh, cool. Like, this is how, how co-writing works for me and feels good.

So, yeah. That’s

Casey: awesome. So you guys, it’s coming out on Comicology when can we expect to see it?

Arris Quinones: July 27th,

Casey: July 27th,

Frank Barbiere: issue one. So yeah, we are doing issues, not one big drop because I know sometimes the format is different, so it will run from July to July, August, September, October, November.

Arris Quinones: And you can, pre-order the first issue right now on Comixology as well.

That way it’ll just download overnight and you can read it

Casey: in the morning. So astonishing times you guys Frank Barberry, eyras, kronas, [00:15:00] you guys go out find astonishing times. I’m so excited to see this book. Anytime you guys want to come back on. Chat more about comics chat about anything by all means.

Give me a heads up and

Frank Barbiere: thank you so much for

Casey: having us always.

Arris Quinones: Yeah, it was, it was very nice chatting. I had a lot fun.

Frank Barbiere: Jason’s first Harris’s first comic interview, too.

Casey: That’s crazy. Considering the. It has made a career out of

Arris Quinones: comics. I’m always on the other side. So I’ve never been on this

Frank Barbiere: side, broke this ground, Casey and Casey real quick.

I’m usually in

Casey: Casey’s position.

Frank Barbiere: I know we’re probably running over Casey, but like, just so I can make good on our promise. Like, why do you like the cover superhero stories? Like, what is exciting for you about this medium? Or like, what do you love about comics? So take us.

Casey: I how I got here through Through meeting John and Ken wrecker, the guys who [00:16:00] started the podcast I run a a comics group called the comic jam and we get young or new creators, people who just want to collaborate with other folks, be whether you’re a writer, a letter, a colorist an artist.

And I arranged to have. You know, these people come together and do a one page collaboration, just one page based on a theme that everybody votes on. So very much like. If it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out. It’s no big deal because you haven’t soak a whole ton of time on it. And we’ve met a lot of folks that way.

Frank Gogel, who is now writing power Rangers started off with the comic jam. Quite a few people. Matthew Sumo who has done comics with a wave flew world. He was on the deck, beats a anthology. We’ve had a bunch of other folks who have eventually gone on to do things in comics or [00:17:00] in animation you know, roundabout way have done things through the comic jam.

And I met John. Over Instagram. Cause I heard his show and I thought it was cool. And now he has me hosting shows occasionally, but I love it. It’s fun. It’s super fun. I’ve gotten to talk to a lot of cool people like yourselves and It’s pushed me to actually shut up and create. And so like now I have issue two of a series that I’ve been writing going on the Kickstarter we’re pending approval now.

So fingers crossed. It gets approved, but I mean, the art’s already done and then I have a second. Called a big footnote karate, and that’s coming out soon too. So I’m doing voodoo child and a big footnote karate. And they’re both very different books, but they’re both very fun and have a hell of a time doing it.

So.

Frank Barbiere: That’s what I love about comics. [00:18:00] People

Arris Quinones: love that title. Oh yeah.

Casey: The artist that my co-creator came up with that title. And I’m trying to convince him to do some merge of a coffee mug with the character on it, with the Bigfoot character and had him also the logo to say big foot needs some coffee.

So anything to make an extra buck, man, we’re trying to do kind of a scary. One benefit of me doing this. I get to pick people like y’all got to pick your brains and kind of figure out what your method is, how you get stuff done. So, I can kind of improve my own right. So that’s awesome. So

Frank Barbiere: you know, the life,

Casey: so, you know, every other, every few days I’ll come down to the basement and hide from my wife and kids and talk to folks like you.

And then when they go to bed, I’ll write. So

Arris Quinones: I got my family is right outside that door to waiting.

Casey: How do [00:19:00] you achieve that

Frank Barbiere: balance?

Arris Quinones: Oh man, it’s tough, man. It’s a lot of getting up early that’s for sure. Getting up, getting up early and then working once the, you know, cause I have a routine, so I have a, I have a four year old and a nine month year old.

So the nine month old is a little easier just cause you know, she’s not. Yeah, well the four year old she’s full on, like I got home or like, why are you working all the time? So that one. You know, like this week is going to be rough. So I had the Warren, like her and my wife, and I’m like, you know, I’m going to be really busy this week, so you’re not going to see much daddy, but like today I’m usually at the studio, but it since was just a writing day for variant, I was like, well, I’ll just write from home.

That way I can at least have like my four year old, like sit next to me and play with her toys that way, you know, I’m still here cause she’s not seeing daddy. So like just little stuff. Like I looked for a little ways, like a little work around just like, well, I don’t technically have to get a studio today.

I work from home. I’m still working, but at least, you know, you can come sit on my lap for a second. I could have lunch with you. You can sit right here. So let’s just kinda achieving that. Always asking questions. Like you’re good, especially with the wife. Right. So you, okay. How are you doing? I know it’s stressful.

You have a [00:20:00] kids, but it’s hard, man. It’s definitely hard. It’s it’s, it’s a constant struggle. That’s for sure. There’s no easy answer there. There’s always trying to do my best.

Frank Barbiere: So.

Casey: As you collaborate, do you have to find a time to actually get together? Do you have to schedule time or do you just go like,

Arris Quinones: cause our artists actually, yeah, he’s an Ireland, right?

So it’s a six hour time difference. And he does have

Casey: my artist for one of my, for the Vitor child book is in England is

Arris Quinones: 600. Yes. And he has two kids as well. Right. And he just actually had a baby not too long ago. So. It’s the it’s, it’s funny. It’s like, it’s basically like me and Rudy being like, Frank, you good?

You good break.

Frank Barbiere: Yeah. I’m still on like, again, I work in games full time, but thankfully I’ve been home and like, I’m just used to the freelance life and thankfully have for my own, I guess, [00:21:00] productivity, but not continuing the line of my. Genealogy do not have children. So I’m more, I’m just like, whatever you guys are pretty.

I’ll be.

Casey: I

Frank Barbiere: think I, I used to, like, when I worked at Activision, like talk to areas like in the car, in a Starbucks parking lot, just to be at the studio. Yeah.

Arris Quinones: That’s actually another trick too. Like, cause you know, I would work, you know, like my full-time gig is variant, right? So like on the way home, I’ll be like, I’m leaving the studio like five, six, and it’s a 30 minute drive from me to my house.

We’ll use that 30 minutes to talk, plot story, whatever, scheduling, and then we would do it that way. So you find a lot of work with workarounds that way when I get home, it’s not like daddy, you’re working again. You’ve just got home. You know what I mean?

Casey: Well, you guys, it’s been a pleasure talking to you.

Thank you so much for coming on. And again, astonishing times, Frank Barberry and Eris kilns. It’s been a pleasure. You guys look out for astonishing time. July 27th. [00:22:00] Yes. Awesome. Awesome guys. Y’all enjoy your, enjoy your weekend.

Frank Barbiere: You too

Casey: be well.