Driven with Glenn Payne and Casey Dillard!

Today Jeff is joined by the director and the writer of the amazing movie Driven, Glenn Payne and Casey Dillard!

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Interview scheduled by Jeffery Haas

Theme music by Good Co Music:

Glenn Payne and  Casey Dillard Interview


[00:00:00] Jeff: Hello listeners, a sport our country today on the show, we had the fantastic Glenn Payne and Casey Dillard. How are you? Both?

Glenn: Doing well, thanks for having us.


Casey: don’t know how to answer that in 2020, but we’re going to say

Glenn: fine. That makes my answers

Jeff: well, supposedly it’s coming to an end, both 2020 and the misery. So.

And eventually think about all the movies there’ll be made about 2020 and coronavirus that will make millions of dollars later in the future.

Glenn: Exactly. I wonder how the world will like those maybes and will they watch them? Are they going to be over?

Casey: You got to remember. There was a time in the mid nineties when there were just, it seems like a lot of natural disaster type movies.

Maybe there’ll be a lot of pandemic movies. In the near future, just a concerning amount.

Jeff: Well, I’m going to wait till the the romcom version of coronavirus that they’ll make this all seem so much more [00:01:00] fun. Well, like I said, I, as I said before, the show started, I did see your movie that you that Mr.

Payne, you direct and produce and Mr. Lord, you write, produce and star in. Yes. It was a very, it was a fantastic week, a lot of fun. It, it was kind of unexpected how the bounds of humor and you do have also the almost horror was I think it was a lot very entertaining. So no problem. So my question for both of you is where did your love of movies come from?

And. Where did you both draw your inspiration from, to get into the industry?

Glenn: Hmm. Well, well for me I mean like most people, I guess, as a, as a kid I got attuned to watching movies or addicted to movies. I think I’ve told Casey this story before, but, but basically, like that was a, a nice time in my childhood when our family would get together.

And and what stuff like movie night on the weekends, get pizza and get a move over in a movie when you can go written movies. And it was always kind of a cool, special thing when the rest of the problems kind of stopped for 90 minutes to two [00:02:00] hours. And we got to just enjoy that together so that that’s a part of it for me, obviously just films themselves as well.

But that, that’s one of my, that’s my origin story

Casey: and Ms. Dillard. First of all, sorry, if y’all can hear my cat. He suddenly decided he was very interested in me. Well, yeah, he’s a, he’s a long time listener. So this is actually, he’s pretty excited. I I’ve definitely, always liked performing, always liked entertaining people.

I come from more of a theater background that was. Much more. My focus when I was younger. And then of course, you know, everybody thinks about doing movies at some point in time. And I did a few here and there and then that, I mean, trying to work in the film industry is kind of what got me into screenwriting because.

A lot of the roles for women are very limited both in quantity and in quality. And so there was definitely some feeling of, if you want to play the kinds of roles that [00:03:00] you want to see, then you’re going to have to write them and same for stories. So it was sort of a roundabout way for me.

Jeff: Ms.

Taylor, so do you think by making movies such as these, you help encourage other producers, writers and actresses as well? To make more roles for or lead roles for women that are a little more, maybe

Casey: I hope so. I think it’s something that a lot of people have been wanting for a while though. So, I mean, if anybody’s taking anything from me, it would probably only be that little extra push to do what they already wanted to do.

As, as far as if it will. Inspire the film industry on the whole, that’s hard to say because at the end of the day, it’s usually a dollars and cents game. So it’s, it’s basically whatever turns the biggest profit. But that being said like I said, I do think that movies with female leads with.

LGBT leads, et cetera, et cetera. I do think that it is scratching an itch that people [00:04:00] have and, and have had for a while. And


Jeff: would also, from having watched driven is that the type of female lead in this movie is different as far as not only the genre. But because the character is in many ways, the stronger of the two characters from both personality and eventually is going as we’re going to take the, use the word of the title more, the more driven personality of the two, eventually

Casey: trying to think.

I think that Emerson and Roger are strong in ways that compliment each other. I think that it was important for Emerson to see someone else pulling the trigger on something that they knew was important to pursue. Even without knowing the outcome. I think that helped her a lot with her fear of failure.

I hope I’m answering this question. Even the short answer, the short answer is yes. Like we want to see more of those kinds of movies. And so we write them and we find very [00:05:00] multitalented and perceptive directors like Glenn to work with and things like that. And the, the longer answer is that yes it is.

But I, I do think that they are both very strong characters in their own way with their own sets of strengths and weaknesses, which is good. Cause nobody wants to watch perfect people being perfect together.

Jeff: Right. So Mr. I was doing some research on you and I read. That as a kid used to perform puppet shows for your family were these scripted shows, were these a part of th this is how you developed skills of improvisation?

Where can you tell a little bit about this?

Casey: I, I think that I was just a very I demanded a lot of attention, really what it came down to. I do think that sometimes I wrote scripts. I think a lot of times I didn’t my, my ultimate dream growing up was I wanted to be in Muppet movies. So at that probably I was like, yes, let’s go ahead and get a jump on this.

So that I’m used to working with puppets when the day comes and I’m still waiting Jim [00:06:00] Henson studios I’m right here.

Glenn: Only why some of these puppet shows

Casey: video. So I’m, I’m making fun of VHS tapes of, of sketches that I did when I was older. But. There would be less puppets.

Jeff: Well, we can definitely add links to the episode when it goes live for your puppy shows so people can watch I’m here to help both of you.

Casey: We’re not doing a video component, but I have puppets with me. So

Jeff: that’s cool. So the dream of being the Muppets have never been, has never

Glenn: died

Casey: for you. I’m still waiting on it.

Jeff: So. Well, when you guys made the decision, both of you to move into the movie industry what did you guys do to build down on the experience?

But for as and education, did you guys, was this your focus for college? Did your family also support the idea of this and was this your first plan or was this like a a backup plan when you first started?

[00:07:00] Glenn: I actually went to college for fine art. With an emphasis in painting. So painting, drawing mainly.

And then I took a little intro to film history class, got to make a tiny, short film for my final exam, which was awful but a really crazy experience that kind of put me on the path to exploring it more. And then sort of went from there really, truly from the ground up. As far as like India roots thing of, of having, you know, buying a hundred dollar camera.

From Walmart and then getting my sisters to do whatever. And this is what I’m like 20 or whatever. I’m not like 12. And then slowly coming up from there and kind of finding information and listening to a lot of DVD commentaries, which are gold and then a lot of learning by doing and failing and eventually kind of starting to feel like you figured some things out.

What was your

Casey: favorite

Glenn: failure? Oh, man. I’ve had to define what that term means. You think on that? Okay. There’s so many to choose from. [00:08:00] So

Casey: for, for me, I, I did not go to college for very long. I was attending a small community college and I was studying acting and theater. And then the acting and theater department got cut.

Along with any scholarships and funding and stuff that went with it. So at that point it was something that I just pursued when I was able and, and I’ve worked a lot of jobs in,

Glenn: Oh, I was just going to say, you mentioned family in there. I’ve been fortunate to have a very supportive family unit and, and art in general that no one has ever told me to get a real job.

So I mean, they’re not paying my bills or anything either, but so yeah, I just wanted to give them a shout out. Cause you mentioned that it’s the same

Casey: for me. Obviously they were patient enough to sit through the puppet shows and many community theater shows they’ve, they’ve always encouraged it.

And I, I don’t think I’ve ever been told, like you have to get a real job. I [00:09:00] think that my parents have always been like. Always make sure that, that you’re able to work a job if you need to have some skillsets in your back pocket and whatnot. And, and my husband also has been extremely, extremely encouraging as I continue to try and make this work.

Jeff: So the skills of both directing, writing, And acting. Would you say that they are something that, that requires mostly experienced to improve upon? Or is it something you think is teachable?

Casey: I think most of the theories are very teachable, but until you start actually putting them into practice, they, it, it all, I’m not going to say it doesn’t matter at all.

Obviously there is a lot of information to be gleaned from programs and schools and things like that. Yeah. But that being said, when you first find yourself, whether it’s writing a screenplay, I have kind of directed one short film and that’s when you very quickly, you’re like, what am I, what am I doing?

[00:10:00] Glenn: It becomes a new and a different way. Like you just made me think of the scenario, but like, let’s say two 10 year spans one, one of them. If you study strictly for one year and then make films for nine, or do the vice versa or studying for nine years and then make films for one, you’re going to be much further along if you’ve made movies for nine years.

That being said, the teaching aspect is obviously, you know, a huge part of it, but seeing it in action, I think is pretty vital because you’re faced with those. Decisions like literally you have to make a call about whatever, one of a million things. So that is the fastest and best way to learn. Well, and I

Casey: think there’s there’s, and, and I could be wrong because obviously I haven’t been to film school, so I’m not speaking from experience, but like, There’s just a lot of practical advice that I don’t, I don’t know that filmmakers would even be able to transfer to other people because you don’t really know it till you get there.

I remember, I, I think I screenshot at a headline. It was like a quote from the director of the movie, the [00:11:00] witch. And they were like any advice for aspiring filmmakers. And he said, don’t work with goats. That was a nightmare. And, and I just couldn’t help it. Think how much more useful that was than all the millions of times that people have been.

Like, you can’t get discouraged. You can’t give up on your dreams. No. Just give people something straightforward. Like don’t work with goats and. That’s something that you don’t know until you’ve tried to work with a goat.

Jeff: That’s an interesting thing for the resume. So driven is at the very least maybe the 10th movie, maybe more that you’ve worked together on. Is that correct? That

Casey: sounds

Glenn: right. Yeah, there’s a lot of them, I don’t know

Jeff: I was with your DIB did and BS, and I was trying to count them out of movies. We were in together and I think around 10 or so, I think I stopped, but I may have been a couple more in there that I missed, but there’s been a lot [00:12:00] out of this partnership partnership begin.

And why is it in, in endured so well,

Glenn: we are both in an improv group called Western shake rag. In Tupelo, Mississippi, and that’s how we met when we were doing auditions for the team. And you know, just slowly over those first few years, I think we, I was already making movies but I was still very early on in that journey.

And I don’t know, Casey, I think, I think I would say that we are both extremely passionate. To a fault sometimes and in a way where we think very similarly about things, but we definitely don’t think exactly the same way. So a lot of, a lot of the skills that we have and strengths and flaws that we have seem to compliment one another in my, in my opinion, as far as sort of forcing each other to grow.


Casey: I would largely agree with that. My, my joke about our writing styles is that I’m really good at getting, at getting characters to talk. And Glenn is very [00:13:00] good at making them move. I don’t know how much of that comes from a theater background where, you know, there’s so many stories that take place in one location and indeed driven is kind of a one location story.

But Glen’s good pointing out that people don’t usually like to work. Watch two hours of people sitting still and talking, or an hour and a half as the case may be. But like, he, like he said, we’ve we’ve been, because, you know, you mentioned the 10 projects and my first thought was, well, yeah, the ones that are on screen because we’ve definitely, as he said, we met through improv.

I’m trying to remember. I, I think there was like one specific scenario where after improv, Glen approached me and asked about working on a movie, but I don’t remember what it was off the top of my head. Which movie,

Glenn: Any, is that what you’re saying? It was a zombie movie. I’m pretty sure

Casey: for the movie.

I just can’t remember what happened in that particular improv. Oh,

Glenn: that I don’t recall. I’m sure it was great though. It was really good, whatever.

[00:14:00] Casey: And the moment that our friendship was really cemented was when I jumped out of a photo op with a celebrity, because I was trying to go find Glenn to make sure he could be part of it and then lost the celebrity.

Jeff: Oh, no Harold Ramis.

Glenn: Oh, damn. Yeah. We were at second city. I think he got, he got a lifetime

Casey: achievement award. Chicago improv festival in 2010. Yeah. I was two

Glenn: stores. She ran up like two flights of stairs to the men’s restroom and yelled into the room. Glen, we’re taking a picture with hell and

Casey: Ramos. But he ran out of time and had to leave.

Glenn: Yeah. The rest of our group took a picture without us.

Jeff: Oh no,

Glenn: that’s okay

Casey: though. Because like, we didn’t get a picture with Harold Ramis, but we did get a lifelong partnership. So

Glenn: yeah.

Jeff: Yeah, but those disloyal bastards in a way,

Glenn: I mean, when you put it like that, you’re absolutely right.

[00:15:00] Casey: I think the whole deal was that everyone else was a little nervous to say anything to him.

Glenn: Yeah. Is. So

Casey: when he was like, well, I gotta go. They were just like, okay.

Glenn: Yeah.

Jeff: That’s such a sad

Casey: story. Is that it’s it’s funny now.

Glenn: It wasn’t

Casey: funny right? In the exact moment.

No, it was not, but it’s, it’s, it’s a good

Glenn: one. Yeah. Yeah. It’s special. So

Jeff: any one of those people who had the picture with Harold Ramez, have any of them, have any of them been in one of your movies or have you decided just to totally ignore them for being

Glenn: the face? Most of them out. At this point? No, they still pop up.

They still pop up here now. All right. So your

Jeff: current project is driven. Where did the idea of the movie come from and who was the first one to approach you with the concept?

Glenn: Okay. I had become interested in making a movie that all took place inside or around a single vehicle. And I [00:16:00] don’t know, maybe that idea was kicked around for like a year.

It was like possible ways to use it. And, and then I don’t know. I guess, I don’t know, Casey, we’re just, we’re just coming up with the next movie idea. I forget. But, but we brought that back up, I guess. And we both came up with one of the things where we’d like to push each other to grow. Is we both decided to come up with a, an idea pitch, like a, I dunno, maybe a whole page or two or three or whatever it was idea.

Different stories. And I came up with one that was something else. And she came out with the one that came driven and we had another, well, I mean, we had another, we had a friend Coley Bryant. He he’s a good buddy of ours. Who’s in driven and helps on our projects. He got to listen to the pitch and decide, and which one was the winner?

And he picked hers. So hers one to the fault, to my, to my ego’s dismay. But it was the right call. It was the right call because it was better suited for the story. So we went with her story and Yeah, it just

Casey: went from there, I guess. And I have found that having some kind of, [00:17:00] whatever it may be boundary in terms of what I’m writing helps and the single location, I think helped me to kind of focus on what it would take to keep me interested in the story like that.

I have so many animals in this room with me right now. They’re just piling on. And the rest of what he said, just kind of fell into play then. I think, I think you sent me like a. A deadline that I had to be done by.

Glenn: Yeah. And you wrote it like fast, very fast, right? For

Casey: me.

Glenn: Yes, absolutely. Here for you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I, I had seen I mean maybe I think this was like where the idea is I stole the idea from, but have you ever seen lock with Tom Hardy, which is just a drama and it’s literally just him talking on the phone. For 90 or 80 minutes. And he’s just fantastic in it. I was curious to see a different, a different, the same format with a different genre, different story and different challenges, things like that.

But even still it’s filmed the wildly different than theirs and his, but if you guys hadn’t seen [00:18:00] that, you should check it out.

Jeff: I definitely, I actually, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of it. I know Tom Hardy, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard of.

Glenn: It’s great. So

Jeff: in this movie Mr. Payne, you’re the director.

Mr. Alert is the writer and actress. So as the director, Mr. You obviously have to tell Mr. Leno what to do, how to perform when it needs to retake. Does that ever, did it ever cause any tension having you kind of handle different and only that, but also being the writer as well. And the, and you have the director with one another.

And how did you resolve those lots of punches?

Glenn: I, Casey, I’ll let you, I’ll say something short. Lets you go. But we. I mean, we butt heads plenty because we’re friends and we see each other a lot. But as far as creatively, we kind of, we worked really well together because we

Casey: got heads on film sets much.

Glenn: No, no, no.

Like almost

Casey: never, but we do sometimes because I can be very terse on set when I’m trying to think about a lot of things, but we, we don’t really usually argue that [00:19:00] much on set. My, my general rule is if he’s saying something that I completely disagree with base, like based on something that I’ve written, if it’s his script, I’m mostly gonna defer to him.

If it’s my script, I will explain why I wrote something a certain way and he will explain why he might see it differently. But,

Glenn: but, but I think we’ve pretty much always right after that moment. I think one of us always pretty quickly. Realizes the other one in that, in that situation? Yeah,

Casey: definitely.

It’s it’s his call? He’s the director. He’s put all of this together and I also know that he’s always going to have a much more clear. Visual plan than I do so like it, and I don’t think it ever has come to a thing where you’re like, just say the line the way I want you to. But like, if it did, that’s what I do because the director is both literally and figuratively.

Hmm. I don’t

Glenn: think we’ve [00:20:00] ever had a situation where. Where we both at the same time where like, I feel really strongly about this decision, this way, which is the alternate way than you want to go. I don’t think in, in the, in the 10 to 20 movies we’ve made, well, not that

Casey: you know of.

No, I don’t. I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I think like. I guess I would say that they don’t get any more tips than they do at any point on a film set. Like it’s, it’s very exhausting work. In that particular case, it was very cold work, but like it’s always something driven was cold people. We talk about how much driven was cold, but it’s always something it’s either cold or it’s hot or it’s dusty and no one can breathe or something, there’s something.

And, and so sometimes tempers do run high. I’m not even tension, I guess. Discomfort. Yeah, but I don’t, I don’t think it’s ever been any worse between the two of us then, like I said, it is [00:21:00] at any other given point in the film or with anyone else,

Jeff: whose idea was it? The opening of the movie is kind of interesting in which it’s.

The character of Emerson drive driving the vehicle kind of giving a, running, not a narration, but definitely character insights, personality insights into her character was, was, and was the goal of those moments. A quick way to develop the character of Emerson or was it to develop a particular tone

Casey: for the movie?

Really? It, it lets, you know I think a few people have expressed that at first they didn’t know what was going on, but then they quickly figured out she was like practicing routines and things like that. It lets you know, kind of what her interest is outside of what we see her doing, what she is hoping to build towards.

And like you said, kind of setting the tone for the movie. So both, those

Jeff: are interesting. An interesting thing about the movie is that there is an interesting maybe a connection and, or parallel between the idea of the demons [00:22:00] writing as, almost as passengers, humans, and the driving of passengers in the vehicle.

Right. Was that an intentional connection that was being. That was being made by you guys. Can you, can you, can you expand on that?

Casey: Yeah, I, I think, I think Roger even has a line about the people being passengers in their own body. So things like that, I just, I think that being trapped in a situation that seems hopeless and that you can’t get out of be it like your employment or whatever else.

I think that’s a universal feeling. Everyone has felt that at some point in time, And why not just throw in two examples of it in the movie. And also because Emerson is the driver and not the passenger in the literal car situation, it’s kind of letting you know that she maybe has a power, a control, a strength in the scenario that she doesn’t recognize yet.

Because she’s not thinking in terms of metaphors in her own life necessarily. Yeah. It must

Jeff: have been the idea of [00:23:00] Emerson as the driver early in the story, I kind of was wondering if there was also the sense that, because at the moment she’s the driver at the beginning, at least in her own mind, she’s not maybe necessarily.

Control of her life in many ways. Yeah. The story of her own story. And instead of being the player in somebody else’s life, or literally the one driving the others to live their lives

Casey: well, and even, even her comedy is largely pulling things from what they’re saying instead of her own stuff. Yeah, I th I think it’s, I think it’s scary to kind of, it’s easy to be the observer making jokes.

It’s harder to get in there and do the hard work of correcting your own course. And I think that she has probably been not, well, I know she has, but hopefully it is. It is. Inferred by the viewer that she has taken a few lumps that have made her overly cautious and afraid of failure. And, and so again, I mean, [00:24:00] she even says it in the text, she fell back on something that was easy for her.

Jeff: So, I mean, it’s, like I said, it seems to be, there’s a lot of symbolism. In the idea of the car and the driving as we mentioned, and also even the title driven and obviously quite literally driven of the character of Roger, but I was thinking the character of who is the one that’s driven is Roger at the beginning.

But eventually it feels like it’s going to be Emerson a little bit. Is that, would that be correct? That in many ways, at first to her, at the end, by the

Casey: end, both of them, they, they both have well, you know, like you said, with, with Roger, he is very literally being driven around he, he is. Driven to try and break this multi-generational curse possibly at great personal expense to himself.

She is sort of driven to, and like you said, she kind of catches on to, I guess, the spirit of this particular adventure or quest. And so she’s driven in that respect, but also. Wanting to change her circumstances push herself [00:25:00] a little further, et cetera, et cetera. And also we did not know that the title driven was going to be as popular as it was in the past couple of years.

I think there’s like three movies, including ours with that title that came out in the past two or three years.

Jeff: I’m

Glenn: just, I’m just shocked at how popular the old, old title, a couple of old titles with the title.

We’re still going strong,

Casey: Sylvester Stallone movie. The one from the eighties. I’ve never, I’ve never heard

Glenn: of it,

Jeff: but clearly it’s yours. The one that matters

Glenn: to us,

Casey: everyone listening to this

Jeff: damn right. So. From a director standpoint, this whole, the whole movie is film from the point of view of the car.

Okay. That must have created a lot of different complications for you as a director of how to make it still feel active and interesting. So what other challenges did it bring to you from a [00:26:00] narrative standpoint? What other

Glenn: challenges. Yeah. Well, I think one of the jokes that we have based on a real situation was I was like, let’s, let’s do this movie.

It’ll be really cool. It’ll be, it’ll be pretty, super easy because it’s one location. And then you realize, as I’ve said before, you had to put that car somewhere at all times. So it went from a one location to a 20 location or 25 or something like that. The most complicated logistical movie I’ve ever made.

So that posed some challenges, especially cause the visuals, for sure. You know, you only have so many angles, this is a real vehicle, you know, we don’t, we don’t have the budget to get a couple, you know, similar cars or, or make something that you can cut in half or take the roof off of or whatever, you know, to get some different shots.

So we’re using a real vehicle and then every time you take it somewhere, whether we’re indoors and we’re faking driving which we did a lot. Or if your really driving down the road or you’re sitting still at some location each time you, you light it and stuff, it’s, it’s a whole different set up kind of for the [00:27:00] crew.

So it’s like, you kind of had to shift gears. Okay, now we’re doing the indoor mindsets. Cause we’re gonna fake all these lights now we’re outdoors and they’re really our streetlights now. And so it kind of kept you. On your toes. And then, then like what you said, the weather was just absolutely atrocious.

It was so cold, crazy winter storm that we had which made everything impossible. Just thinking hurt.

Casey: Well I know both Michael’s fingers, Michael Williams, our DP and his camera were shutting down one night out at the aquatic center. Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah.

Casey: So there, there were some, and I will say like my apologies to any Canadians that might be listening to this.

I know it’s not cold for you guys, but we weren’t built for it. And we weren’t

Glenn: So,

Casey: yeah. On a practical level, I think just keeping people alive and functional became an issue.

Glenn: Yeah, that was, that was [00:28:00] the biggest. So were

Jeff: there aspects of the script that you had to cut? Because there wasn’t a logical way to do it with the car or from the point of view of the car?

Casey: I think we changed one of the actions a little bit without giving away any spoilers. It’s Roger and Emerson out. Buy a house. And I think that there were supposed to be more entities than what ended up in the movie originally, but then it was like, it was something about, we couldn’t really streamline the process and choreograph a good fight scene because the camera had to stay on or near the car.

So we can’t do like these close cut ends of the punches and all the things that make fight scenes really cool. So we had to, we had to pair that one down kind of on the fly, I think.

Glenn: Yeah. And yeah, and some of that was just logic of like, how many, how many of these things can he get away from when you actually see them in the yard?

You know? And you actually start doing it with real human [00:29:00] beings. You’re like, that’s a lot of people. But yeah, and that, that brings up another interesting point with the challenges. So my rule visually was that the, the car had to be. Incorporated into every shot. So not only is it either inside or around you, you have to see the car.

So if you look out like, like there’s one part where the driving away and they’re being chased and you, and you see, you could just have a shot, just, just kind of speeding away where you just see the things chasing them, but you had to see like the bottom bumper, because that was just one of the rules, you know, like it had to be at arms length at all times.

So that did affect shots and stuff you could do. As well, I don’t,

Casey: I don’t think there were any whole scenes that had to be cut though. We just had to scale back on a few things. So,

Jeff: Roger has played by, I’m going to get the name wrong, Richard spite. Is that how you call it? Number eight. Okay. Thank you.

I’m really bad with it. I’m really horrible.

Glenn: Unfortunately,

Casey: he’s had worse in his own hometown called him Richard Sprite.

Glenn: Sprite because we wanted to get a whole bunch of [00:30:00] Sprite cans, new, a funny photo, but we didn’t do it. All right. So,

Jeff: Have you, have you bumped into it? You don’t apologize for it if you get the name wrong, but Richard spite was just by Jr.

From supernaturally. Obviously he was the the trickster and eventually Gabriel, how did he get involved in the

Casey: project? So we met Mr. Spade. The Oxford film festivals in Mississippi, some years back, I didn’t really keep in touch with him very much, but I think Glenn kind of would check in occasionally if he, if you had like a question or something like that and his name came up pretty early in the process when we were just tossing out names of people that might work well in the role.

And his just really kind of stuck

Glenn: and such as specific, you know, skill set, I guess maybe that’s not the right way to say it, but well, things good at, you know, especially good at Linden. So very well.

Casey: Roger could be a very hard to watch character. [00:31:00] If he had been played by someone who didn’t seem to kind of get what he was all about and rich seemed to.

Very quickly. So it was definitely the right call. I think maybe we looked into that making the right call to some extent, because I, I mean, I don’t think we necessarily based it on one thing that we saw him do. It was just sort of a ha I remember, I specifically could think of a line that I could picture him saying, and he did it exactly like I dreamed.

So that was awesome. Yeah.

Glenn: Well, he’s, he’s very articulate. He can. He speaks very quickly. He’s good at delivering lines that way. Intelligently and you can be kind of play the sarcastic role pretty well while also still being likable. And that’s not, those are hard things to do, you know? So there aren’t a lot of people with those that, that a collection of skills.

Jeff: Yeah. One thing I noticed about watching him in the movie is that there is an inherent likability to him and it’s the [00:32:00] character of Roger. In the beginning is an inherently likable themself until you kind of figure out who he is. I do feel like Mr. Spade did a great job of creating that immediate, immediate connection with them.

Glenn: Yes. Agreed. Yeah, definitely.

Casey: And like I said, I think a lot of it just comes down to the fact that he clearly really got Roger. He put. A lot of thought into why he says the things he says, why he acts the way he does. I think he had a nice balance of like both the sharpness and the sort of sheltered naivete.

Oddly enough that the adventurer character has. And I don’t know, it was, it was very special for me to see that come to life as precisely as I tried to write it

Glenn: comedically. I mean, he, you know, I know, you know, the timing and stuff is all. Vital and he’s, he’s got that down to, you know,

Jeff: and I must admit also the chemistry between Ms.

Dillard and Mr. Faye was actually extremely good. And I was [00:33:00] wondering, is that something that just occurred naturally or were you guys able to either. Practice that kind of chemistry, the timing or whatever, or did it just kind of happen? Was there a spark then? I

Casey: think it just worked out that way. I, we occasionally made plans to try and practice once he got to town, but the way the schedule was it mostly didn’t allow for it.

Stop. Sorry, there’s a, there’s a fight breaking out.

Jeff: I wasn’t sure that was me referring to the podcast.

Casey: The only scene that we were able to sit down and, and really practice before shooting was. I guess it’s not a spoiler at this point. It’s been out a while. It was, it was the big confrontation scene between Roger and Emerson. We did get to rehearse that one, a decent amount. And I, I mean, I guess, you know what, no, I’m not going to say not to brag.

I think it, I think that comes across. It’s a good scene. I thought that [00:34:00] he did a great job. I thought that I matched it as well as I could. And it works, but for the most part. ’cause he, he flew in on what, the second day of shooting Glenn. Yeah. And I was pretty sick the first week and because we were staying up so late, cause we, it was all overnights and everything.

I think we, like I said, we made plans to practice, but usually when the day came, it was like, I think I would rather sleep a little longer. Sure. We would run line. Yeah. Usually when hair and makeup was happening or when they were setting up a shot, but.

Glenn: I think it was mainly a Testament to how just how good you both are.

Honestly, the boil it down to the root of it.

Casey: I will accept that compliment only because he was included in it, but yeah, like I said, I think, I think we just lucked out

Jeff: well. I mean, I think there’s a lot of interesting moments with the character of Roger. I think when most interesting moments are these character moments in the film is when Roger States that he is not actually here.

In fact, he was looking for a hero and it’s not him. And, and do you think that. [00:35:00] Or the fact that he’s kind of ordinary and flawed as the main CA as one of the main characters. Do you think that’s like one of the main reasons why it is the movie is so entertaining because he is so easily recognizable because we all have maybe that feeling that we’re not the main character

Casey: as it were.

I think so. I think that, so first of all if I start gushing too much, just tell me, but I really love Roger. He’s one of my favorite characters I’ve ever written. And I think the fact that he, I think that it’s, it adds to the comedy of the film that he’s not some action ready superstar, but I also think that it adds to what makes it compelling because with, with all respect to the, the Buffy summers and Harry potters of the world, like he’s not a chosen one.

He isn’t. Given any special powers or skillset to help him in his quest. It’s just what he’s trying to do because he knows it’s the right thing to do. And like, I think, I think people are. Invested in Emerson because [00:36:00] she is relatable. I think they invest in Roger because to some extent he’s aspiration.

Like he is, he is something that we should all try to do because no, you don’t have to be singled out and chosen to do the right thing.

Jeff: And I think also I find it found that you both as the director and the writer did a great job of developing his arc because early in, in the movie, you get a sense that.

Roger once again, he’s from a wealthy family is insinuated that partly could be desired to kill the demons or such as such as they are named are because, so he can be able to let’s say, have a family and procreate and whatnot. And then you find that the movie develops that he actually has a more earnest reason for what he’s doing.

And I found that was a very. Interesting arc to give the character. And one that is not typical. I think of a primary character. No worries. There’s not really a question there. I’m just pointing that out. That I really did enjoy that.

Glenn: Rich has said before. I think [00:37:00] it’s on the interview on the DVD, like behind the scenes stuff in Casey prepping.

Am I wrong if I’m wrong? But he said something like one of the things he liked about Roger was that he is a character. They will thrust himself into battle, even though he doesn’t have the tools that are necessarily required to accomplish a goal, but he’ll still throw himself in nonetheless. And I think he said that was something he, he liked about the character maybe even connected with.

But I like to think of that sometimes as far as Roger and his mindset, because it is pretty unique to me. I mean, I’m sure there are other characters throughout history that have touched on similar things, but you don’t see it very often. I don’t think anyway. So that’s one of the things that stands out to me about that character, like so much as well.

Jeff: There’s there’s also was a really funny scene in the movie that I really enjoyed. Where is, where do you guys kind of reveal how bad of a driver Roger actually is? And I, and I thought it was, which was very clever. And I was wondering, did the bid come first or was it, did it come up as a way to explain [00:38:00] why Roger needs Emerson derived from, to begin with

Casey: both.

I, I try to, so I have a friend named Leland. He might listen to this. I’m not sure he may have been the Canadian in question that I was talking to specifically, but I get, I get him to read, yeah, most of my scripts because he will usually send me back a very lengthy list of questions that could be considered plot holes or just.

You know, questions that you might want to have an answer for. And, and so when I write scripts, one of the things that I go in with is like, how, how can I keep, what questions of Leland can I anticipate? And also what reason would these characters have for needing to stay together? So because, you know, obviously they, they have some headbutts here and there and there on more than one occasion.

Emerson’s like, you need to get out of the car. And so I needed, I needed to have thought up in advance, why he [00:39:00] would be reticent to do that. And then I was like, well, here’s a really fun way. And in my head, he’s from New York, because I know that people who live in large cities full-time sometimes don’t know how to drive because they don’t have to.

And. So, yeah, that was what I came up with. It was to cut Leland’s question off at the past and have a funny scene with some good payoff.

Glenn: W w L

Jeff: a. Now there’s also a wonderful scene where Roger’s going to try to retrieve the talisman. I’m not gonna have too much too much of it away, but there’s.

The, the entire tension of that scene is built around the reactions of Emerson. So for Mr. Payne as a director, which considerations did you have to think about to really say how to make this scene tens and keep it active all through our perspective of basically a Mo a stationary character.

Glenn: Yeah, definitely something you want to be careful with.

I mean, I guess just trying to play on the intimacy of, of being anchored to the car. And [00:40:00] I mean, obviously you got to get the pacing right in the editing and pick the shots and let the music do its work, blah, blah, blah. It comes down to just what Casey’s doing is she sort of non-verbally listening their performance wise.

That one was tough to do just for the sake of filming all the things that had to happen there with the action that followed. But Yeah, I think a lot of it comes down to those individual pieces being put together with, with the, with the core of it being what Casey’s doing in that moment. And then, and then the music

Casey: contributing, I will say that like, I’m sure that not everyone will agree with me, but there is some merit to staying with the point of view character when they wouldn’t be where the action is happening.

Like something interesting about driven to me is that. Like there’s, there’s whole stories taking place that we never even see. And so much like Emerson doesn’t know what’s happening behind that closed door in that house, the audience doesn’t either. And, and so you just kind of have to sit with that discomfort with her

[00:41:00] Glenn: right

Jeff: now.

Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Mr. Payne. Oh, I was

Glenn: just going to throw this in earlier. You’re talking about challenges and things like that. And one of the things when Kona with the stories, and I’m like Casey mentioned trying to think of pieces moving, what can you do in a car? You can smash out windows. You can, you can have chases, you can crash the thing.

We don’t have the money for most of those things. But also something is, this is a little off topic, but. It’s interesting to me is I, I did also like the idea of those things not happening because it was something kinda that I could romanticize about the idea of them getting through this journey. And the next day she’s still driving this.

Same vehicle in its whole form that will have a story attached to it that the rest of the world will not know when they see this thing going down the road. And I know that doesn’t really have much to do what we were just talking about. It just came to mind and I thought it

Jeff: was in. So does that imply SQL’s in the works at some point?

Glenn: What’d

Jeff: you say, Casey?

Glenn: I always, like, I’m always curious about, [00:42:00] about doing that and it will be fun and she’s always, like she says, no, she says no. Okay.

Jeff: Have you guys ever, have you guys ever done a sequel before? I don’t think I noticed any sequels in the, in your well first

Casey: of all, tremendously flattered that you think there has been a demand for SQL often.

Anything that we’ve done before, but I sequels are tricky, especially when you. Character’s in a decent spot like their, their stories, not necessarily over, but the audience can imagine what they might do next. That’s very satisfying to me. If they’re, if they’re, if they’re sequels out there than they are being written by like the people who have been kind enough to think of us when they are writing their fan fiction and things like that.

So. I, I personally, I would love to work with this exact same team again, but I don’t necessarily want to do driven or the driven thing.

Jeff: Tell me if I’m not wrong without giving any too much away. There seems to be an [00:43:00] implication that SQL was impossible by one of the lines of Roger, about his family or his grit, Greg.

Great grandfather, I think it was and his infidelity as it were. I just wondering if that was dropped for the, for that possibility.

Casey: I’m not sure if I can answer this without getting into spoilers. But I will, I will say that, like, I’m not saying that a sequel couldn’t happen and there’s no other Roger and Emerson story out there.

I would just be more interested in working with the same people a second time. I think you just really,

Glenn: you really like where the characters land like


Casey: Yeah. Did for anyone who hasn’t seen the movie,

Jeff: this is a very downer,

so, so where can our listeners find driven?

Casey: Where can’t you find driven? Well, you know, you never know. That’s very true. Sometimes it’ll be one place. Yeah, so digitally,

Glenn: you know, [00:44:00] most of the normal places like iTunes, Amazon, Google play Vudu, et cetera DVD through Amazon. Although there’s a weird kind of backlog of that right now, I think, or something.

And it just came out on IMD BTV, which is attached to Amazon. It wasn’t Amazon prime, but they switched it over. So even if you don’t have a prime account and you can essentially watch it for free it just plays ads. So if you want to go through Amazon, you can watch it for free. And leave us a review, whether you love it, hate it, or, yeah,

Casey: my, my philosophy is always, if you love it, tell a friend, if you hate it, tell an enemy because their money will spend the same either way.

Jeff: Yeah. It’s totally okay. To hate watch as long as you’re paying for it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So what products do you have lined up in the future? Both of you? Well,

Glenn: We’re, we’re, we’re riding on something that’s still sort of in a very early phase. And then we have a show called stag Rasul paranormal, which is a ghost hunting comedy, a mockumentary it’s on [00:45:00] Amazon.

The last time we looked, it was there. Amazon’s doing some strange things right now.

Casey: You have to search stag, wrestle pier a normal season one now, but for it to pop up. So sorry about that.

Glenn: Unless you’re strictly in the prime video category, then it’ll clockwise, but it’s really fun. It’s  Reno nine 11 meets ghost hunters as kind of how we described it.

But so there are four episodes, so that’s kind of like three little sequels. But we, weren’t going to do two more at the beginning of the pandemic, but then kind of pause that for a while.

Casey: Nevermind. I was just going to ask about other things that we were working on, but maybe we’re keeping those under lock and key right now.


Glenn: we we’ve we’ve we’ve, we’re always making something new. So yeah, that will be something

Jeff: well, when those are ready, hopefully you come back on the show and discuss

Glenn: it. Absolutely. You have very good questions, sir. Oh, greatly appreciate it. Thank you so much. I’m not going to lie. This was refreshing.

I enjoyed these. I, I definitely

Jeff: appreciate that. And you’re welcome to say that to [00:46:00] anyone you want, but thank you guys so much for joining me on the show. You guys were both fantastic. And I really did think driven was a fantastically well done movie. And I really did, like there was multiple more, there were a lot of layers to the, to the movie and the idea behind it.

Then I would have originally thought going into it and, but it really was layered very well in the, in the concept and ideas behind it. That’s so

Casey: kind of you. Thank you. Thank

Jeff: you. If you don’t mind, can you guys do a bumper for me?

Glenn: Sure. You want us to do it solo or together? Or what do you think?

Jeff: However, you guys want to choreograph it, but basically I would say something along the lines of, hi, this is Glenn pain and maybe, Hey, I, and this is Casey Dillard.

Say something maybe something about the movie driven and you’re listening and you’re listening to spoiler

Glenn: country. Okay. Do you want

Casey: me to go first or do you want to go

Glenn: first? Oh, I’ll go first. I can, I can say, Hey hi, I’m Glenn pain. Okay. Do you want to do we’re the creators driven and I can say in your listening to spoiler, that works for me.

Okay. You ready? Hi, I’m Glenn Payne and I’m

Casey: Casey Dillard. We are the creators of [00:47:00] driven and you’re

Glenn: listening to

Jeff: spoiler com. Thank you guys so much. You guys were fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Glenn: Have a great night as well too. Thanks, bye.


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