Canto Creators David Booher and Drew Zucker!

Today we are joined by the creative team behind the run away hit Canto from IDW Publishing! The story of a little guy with a clockwork heart that just wants to make it all better!

Find Drew and David online:
https://twitter.com/davidbooher
https://www.davidbooher.com/
https://twitter.com/drew_zucker
https://www.artofdrewzucker.com/
https://www.amazon.com/Canto-Vol-Only-Had-Heart/dp/1684056217
https://www.idwpublishing.com/product/canto-1-of-6/

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David Booher and Drew Zucker Interview

[00:00:00] Kenric: alright guys, we’re back today and this is exciting. If you’re a friend of IDW stuff, and I have used, seems to kill it every year. To me, they’re, what the stuff they’re putting out lately has just getting better and better. And today is no exception.
We have the team of David Buer and Drew’s Ducker. You guys are working on Canto and you have a new art coming out at the end of August and a one shot coming out here in July. Welcome aboard, guys. Thanks for coming on.
David and DrewThanks for having us. Thanks for having us.
Kenric: this is exciting. Canto clockwork Knight. Tell us all about what is this world about and and who should be reading this right now?
David and Drewwell, I can, this is David. I can take it. so cancer was a little, 10 he’s, he’s part of a race of these 10 people who have been enslaved. And during their enslavement, they’re not allowed to have names. They’re not allowed to care for each other, [00:01:00] and they’re not allowed to feel love. when they’re taken, their hearts are removed and replaced with clocks.
And so when their time is up or their clocks get damaged, they go into the furnaces. And that’s kind of, it. So against this dark darkish world, we have Canto, he sort of defied all of that. He has a name, he has fallen in love with a little tin girl, and when her clock gets damaged beyond repair, he has to go out into this great big fantastical world.
He and his people know nothing about to find where they’ve taken their hearts to bring hers back to save her. So if you read the trade right on the back, it’s, I like to say it’s, It’s part fantasy, part adventure, and all heart. Let’s Canto.
Kenric: That sounds awesome. That’s a great premise. That’s so original. I love it. Where did the inspiration for Canto come from? I’m going to, I’m not even kidding. This sounds great.
[00:02:00] David and DrewSo Canto started as a single drawing design challenge to myself to, draw something that was a little more mainstream and out of my wheelhouse. And I did the initial drawing and it sat in a drawer for like five years or something, somewhere in that range. and I had a little paragraph like breakdown story of what I thought it should be.
And then eventually David came along. He wanted to work on something together. at the time I couldn’t do it, but eventually I circled back around to him and I sent him the drawing of what would become Canto along with the paragraph. And he immediately connected with it and was full to basically.
Craft a, what I call a more palatable and accessible [00:03:00] version of what I originally came up with, and he turned it into its own little thing where it’s really become this amalgamation of both of our ideas of where they should go. And also, you know, the type of story we want to tell.
Kenric: Yeah. How, how many fights did you guys get into coming up with the initial story and saying, he needs to do this? No, no, no. He needs to be doing that.
David and DrewVery few.
Kenric: Very few. That’s awesome.
David and Drewyeah, yeah. It was only really one fight and it’s currently still ongoing almost three years later.
Kenric: it was always something.
David and DrewHi. No, I mean, for the most part. The kind of division of labor on the book is essentially, I’m in charge of art. David’s in charge of scripts, but we’re both very involved in [00:04:00] each other’s process. So if David gets stuck somewhere or if he needs to bounce ideas, or if I read something in the script that I have questions about, or I think, you know.
We should talk through. We, we will have very in depth conversations about story and where things should go and, you know, develop. plot threads with each other, but, and the same thing with the art. He, he sees, I would say the majority of the art, as it’s in progress and he’s, you know, add questions about stuff.
He’s pointed out things that I’ve done wrong that I’m just not paying attention to sometimes. But we’re, we’re both very involved on all aspects of it. I mean, yeah, full pages he sends to me and I just crumble up, throw my phone across the room. No,
Kenric: What are you doing? What are you thinking?
John: his place. So I gotta do.
David and Drewa very, we have a very, very [00:05:00] collaborative process in that we talk, we talk almost every single day, and it’s been, I think the first time that we started talking about Canto, we became Canto started in the fall of 2018 I want to say.
And so we’re coming up on, by the time Kantar two comes out in August. We’re getting close to the three year Mark of he and I working together on this project. So we’ve sort of created a little language of all of our, you know, our own lots of expletives and, you know, shorthand and just developing a story, sort of as a T as like a true comics team storytelling
Kenric: Yeah.
David and DrewIt’s been cool.
Kenric: Yeah. How did IDW get involved?
David and DrewWell, I walked into their offices when I threw this book down on riles desk and I said,
Kenric: do this.
[00:06:00] David and DrewWe escorted out by the police. Took me months to get back in. Now. what actually happened is we put together a really cool, I think one of the coolest, pitch decks that I’ve ever seen. It’s, I did a mock cover on it and it had, Sort of telling them the synopsis of the story. It was designed as these parchment fairy tale storybook pages with little arts sprinkled here and there.
So as soon as you’re reading through it, you’re like, okay, I understand what the tone, exactly what the tone of this is and where it’s going to fit. and then we put together some of the artwork. By the time it got to ID w we had finished the inks for the first full first issue, which is what they asked for.
So, I did a lot of networking around in the shows and the cons because I never wanted to be the person who just has to throw the book into the abyss and hope best. So I was meeting [00:07:00] editors and things, and I had a good friend of ours who has come back and do and done covers for us. Ben Bishop, who has also done IDW work and yes.
John: Ben’s a friend of mine. Pin’s
Kenric: Johnny knows Ben. Awesome small world.
David and DrewYeah. Comics is such a small world. So our really good friend of ours and just super supportive, and he knew somebody, one of the editors at IDW. And then like the patron I sent it. So he said, Hey, let me hook you up with one of these editors. And I thought, Oh great. We have, we totally have this in at IDW.
It’s gonna go right through and it’s going to be amazing.
Kenric: of course it is.
David and DrewAnd the editor came back to me, he says, Oh, I really like this. Let me put it with, let me send it to the selection committee with all the other things that we’re thinking about. So I’m like. DMA. We did all of that. Okay.
Kenric: Oh my God. It’s like the world is starting to get a little darker right now.
[00:08:00] David and DrewI don’t know. So it’s like, where did all this work to get out of the slush pile? And here we are back in the slush pile. So it went through the selection committee, wood chipper, and somehow came out on the other end fully intact. And so that’s how we ended up with, there is a slight addition to that story too.
We, we came to find out, I had done a book with monkey brain a few years ago, called sky breaker, with Mike Morrissey, who is obviously gone on to do his own thing and become a big deal in his own right. and. Monkey brain had to deal with IDW and IDW published the physical trade of the book, which sold nothing.
It went absolutely nowhere, but I made a point of being as professional at the time as I possibly could with them, and I stayed in contact. So that when the time came and we were in the slush pile with everyone else, he [00:09:00] at least gave some name recognition when the names came across the table. So we got a fair shake out of it.
But that wood chipper is, it’s legitimate.
Kenric: Right. It’s monstrous.
David and DrewYeah. I mean, you know, you, you can know whoever you want over there, but the reality is that. It will only get you so far because it’s got to go through that committee.
Kenric: Right, right. Which is the proper way to probably do it. You know, they have all
David and DrewYeah. You don’t want, you don’t want to, you don’t want your book published that isn’t. Publishable, or it’s not ready. Just because somebody takes pity on your, you know, somebody, and I jokingly say wood chipper, and it’s, that’s the exact same submission process for every major publisher, whether it’s books, comic books, TV, film, any of that.
You’re submitting any sort of creative material. It’s, most of it doesn’t come out the other end. So, [00:10:00] so,
Kenric: a one way tunnel, man. There’s no out
David and DrewI know it just disappears. That’s why I like to think of it as throwing it into the
Kenric: wood. Yeah.
David and Drewyou’re like sometimes the best throws it back. Most of the times it doesn’t.
Kenric: A business staring at you, buddy.
Hey, these covers that I’m looking at. I just went to comicon.com and you guys have a really good review from James Ferguson on there. And he really liked it and he, he posted some of the covers. They are amazing. who’s doing all these cover works? Drew, is that all you?
David and Drewhang on. It probably is,
Kenric: the got the one is cover a Canto in the clockwork ferries and you got the ferry on his,
David and Drewtrue. Yeah. That’s
Kenric: Dude, your art is ridiculous, man. Yeah. What, when you came up with this guy, when, when you drew the [00:11:00] initial Canto and how is he wildly different? Is he just a little bit different? But
David and DrewI would say he is probably. About 60% intact from what was originally there.
Kenric: a bit though.
David and DrewThe original version is much more stiff and much more, to, to a degree that it would not be doable to draw him a thousand times in a book.
Kenric: Right.
David and Drewat least not for me.
Kenric: you had to make it a little bit more fluid, a little bit more accessible.
David and DrewYeah. I mean, the main thing he can’t though, did not go through a particularly heavy redesign process. We were able to nail it down pretty quickly once we established that what we wanted to do with something. Maybe a little more all ages than where my head had [00:12:00] originally been at and we were able to very quickly kind of stripping down of all the excess and find a silhouette and I basically broke him down into shapes that I knew I could draw from any angle in any three D space.
And it came together pretty quickly after that.
Kenric: Yeah. I just, I love the concept of this cause. There’s not enough fantasy for young readers, you know, except for like classics. And they’re just so, they’re so overdone. You know? And you guys have really brought in something very contemporary. I, this is, the look is, is great. I can’t wait to actually read and go through everything because I, you know, let talking to you guys and then reading about what, what is going on and then you guys give, you know, and then David gave that great synopsis at the beginning.
Right. It, it hits on all the levels, so I’m excited.
[00:13:00] David and DrewCancer didn’t come along necessarily as a, the best way to put this is that David and I were not unaware of a particular gap that was with the industry at the time. had already been working on the book, but we looked extensively at what was on shelves, what was popular, what was, you know, was there a market for this?
And I think ultimately. You know, if you look at everything, everything is cyclical. Eventually zombies will go out of style again and at some point somebody will do something that, again, that’ll be original, and then they’ll become popular
Kenric: Right?
David and DrewIt’s the same sort of deal, but whoever is first to get out of the gate on it, and that’s where it gets really tricky.
Whoever’s first tends to be able to make a good hit, and I kind of feel like we were able to hit first. Yeah. So in, so when we were pitching it around, it was during that glut of [00:14:00] all the dystopian violence Hi-Fi that was coming out, and it was just, I just read book after book after book that was just all this, this really adult skewing scifi.
And it just felt like it was the same. Another iteration of the same world. And the same story just told this slightly different way. And I, I mean, we looked at. Ken thought it was even, our, our, the powers that be at IDW mentioned this in a podcast recently, recently, said that they were even a hundred percent sure they really liked the book, but they said they weren’t even a hundred percent sure.
I mean, you know, if it were to find an audience and they’d said, They said, well, that’s good. We want to publish it. And if it finds an audience, great, and if it doesn’t, then it doesn’t, but we want to do it. and it has found its audience. And you can see, since I am not in any way suggesting that Kantar is at all, can be credited for any of this.
But [00:15:00] if you look at the books that came out since Canto was announced in the last March, you’ve got everything. Every book that’s come out from boom studios except for something that’s killing the children, seems to be a new fantasy series. And,
Kenric: Okay.
David and Drewthey’ve just announced a new one by James and with, wind that’s selling like crazy.
And once in the future came out and you’re seeing all of these new iterations of fantasy books that now it’s almost become like you got to do something really cool and really different and fantasy that you even get. Traction at this stage.
Kenric: And how, how do you guys keep that coolness factor? Is it introducing new characters? Is it going back and taking classic fantasy characters and bring them into the Arcana fold or
David and DrewWell, so I, I have a theory about this, which is, if you look at all the books that started in, [00:16:00] The golden age, thirties forties and then the celebration 50 sixties look at the names of those comic books. Superman, Batman, Spiderman. They’re all based on characters. They have nothing to do with the premise of the book.
And I think that’s what creates a timeless book or timeless series is when it’s based on a character and not necessarily the world that. The characters live in, or the story that you’re telling and Canto certainly has this great story art that he’s going on, but it’s the strongest reactions that we’ve heard from readers is their connection to Canto as a character, his quest, his journey, everything is important.
But mostly they just turn the page because they want to see Canto face down that danger and say, I can do this.
Kenric: Yeah. That’s
David and DrewSo [00:17:00] I think that’s what the real secret is for us.
Kenric: I think that’s one of the greatest things that comic books do is give you that long form character development that you don’t get in. any other medium read it really. You know, and I wanted to ask you this because bringing up Canto as a character and that you’re really concentrating on the character arc of Canto, which, you know, same thing, but you know, do you think that writers are coming out today have a tendency to concentrate on the clever idea as opposed to developing the, the, the aspect of what the story should be like the character.
David and DrewYes, yes. Yeah. Was that too fast?
Kenric: Yeah, that’s okay. I mean, I mean, that just means that my question was well thought and rounded, and you were like, yeah, you got it.
David and DrewI had the perfect example of this for you, and it exists within the same franchise, which is incredible. You look at star Wars, [00:18:00] the movies are based around a concept, not a character, and they, or at least in the new trilogy, and they suffer for it, drew horribly because so much of it. Is like, okay, this is fine.
If you go and look at what was done in clone Wars,
Kenric: Yeah,
David and Drewyou look at what they did with the soca. I remember when Colmore started with the movie, and I think a soca was one of the most despised characters I have ever seen. People hated her. That character development over time and commitment to not only the concept, but developing the character has no turn.
What was a completely despised character into what is probably one most value, valuable pieces of IP within an already valuable IP,
Kenric: That’s interesting. Do you think they’re going to bring something out with [00:19:00] her? Okay. Because they just ended the whole thing, right? For clone Wars?
David and DrewEvent, the clone Wars, but I mean, they, they’ve already said she’s coming from Mandalorian. There’s, they already said they’re doing a TV show. I mean, basically they got what they really wanted out of the Ray character, which was a really strong female character.
Kenric: yeah.
John: this at the calcium Rosario Dawson answer
David and Drewthe movies got down because the movies got bogged down in their concepts and not their character.
Those characters all suffer for it in the movies,
Kenric: There wasn’t a single line of thought, you know.
David and Drewand I bought, well, but that goes to cat though, I think are. Our focus on him has served as well, but I also think that [00:20:00] it’s, we both really love making this book. What it comes down. We w we wouldn’t, I mean, I have, my general day when I’m not at work is about a 14 hour day drawing. when I am at work, it’s 12 hours at work, come home, and then draw for about four hours before I go to sleep.
You don’t do that because you don’t enjoy what you’re doing.
Kenric: that’s right. That’s right. That’s the same thing with Johnny and I, you know, we both work and then we, you know, we get done with work and then we work on, on our podcasts and we, and, and three years, we’ve, we’ve released over 350 episodes, and we’ve had people like Jerry Conway and we just interviewed Marv Wolfman last night, and Eric Larson.
And you don’t get those people by. Not being passionate about what you’re doing and just half passing it, you know? So it’s the same kind of [00:21:00] concept. Yeah, it’s, that’s, it’s really cool. I like how you guys are very much into what you’re doing that it shows too, because when you go through the book, huh.
Yeah. I, I, I wish I had, I honestly am regretting not having the ability to read it before you guys came on. I really am.
David and DrewI mean, we got, what does it take an hour? We’ll just sit around and wait for you. Yeah.
Kenric: That would be hilarious.
David and DrewSkip all of the stuff that David wrote. Follow the pictures. Oh my gosh. I was going to say, just read the words and skip over the pictures. That’s David.
John: If you go to IDW, publishing.com that digital copy is free right now, so
Kenric: Is it really.
John: I’ve never won at least. Yeah.
David and DrewYeah. The first issue is up there digitally for free, so you can check it out.
Kenric: There you go. IDW, publishing.com
John: We [00:22:00] do a library right now and voice voices.
Kenric: actually, you know, we do a series of shows. I think you guys would be awesome. With, if you’re, if you’re a game where we bring the creators on, we pick one book that they choose out of their other series, and then we do a DVD commentary style where we go page by page and then we, and then we let the people know, Hey, we’re on this book, this page, and we’re talking with the creators, and we’re going to go over each panel on each page and say, okay.
You know, this is what you’re seeing, these, you know, what was going on, what was through your mind? Why did you guys make these decisions? That kind of stuff. It’s, it’s a lot of fun.
David and DrewOh yeah, that sounds amazing. There’s definitely, you know, you go through the book and I, and I look at it and I, I can still remember. Writing a script and then working with drew on the art, just like specific choices that we made, [00:23:00] storytelling choices that really served, I think, really served us with the audience.
by making these decisions the way we did. And I can still remember those different moments as we, those benchmarks. If you go there, the first issue.
Kenric: Doug, see, there you go. Do you want to go through the, what’d you guys? What’d you guys want to come on and do that?
David and DrewYeah. Yeah, totally.
Kenric: Cool. Let’s, let’s, after the call after this, we’ll set up a date and time and we’ll, we’ll put it together and I think it’ll be fun. Yeah. Do you want to do it the first one or do you want to do it with a separate book?
David and DrewI think we should do it with issue one issue one is really what, I mean, it sounds kind of silly to say it, but issue on really gave us our footing somehow. The things we did in issue one, they seem to have done correct. Done, right. To get to bring the audience in. Cause we have people, you know, most of the readers have stuck around for the series or have come back for the trade. [00:24:00]
Kenric: If I only had a heart where, where was, when you started writing this book, is there anything that was happening in your life that really influenced. Canto or, or vice versa, you know, things that Canto was going through that you started thinking things a little different with what’s going on in your guys’ life.
David and DrewFrom, from me. I don’t, I don’t think so. It was very much inspired by my love of wizard of Oz, obviously, because of were that influence on it, on our sleeve. and it was kind of a, it was such a neat, wish fulfillment for me. To be able to do a brand new story inspired by something that I loved so much since I was a kid.
I tell this, I tell this sort of background story a lot, but one of the, I have a huge, I’m a big library, at home and I have a series of the original wizard of Oz [00:25:00] books, which if you don’t know, and if the listeners don’t, now it’s, It’s 36 books, that whole frame bomb roads. originally in the Oz series.
And when I was 12 years old, I was, I was growing up in a small town in Ohio and I spent all my time in the public library. And one day they had a used book sales. And at this he’s book sell. I bought a copy of the wonderful wizard of Oz from the year 1901 that I. But I still have, I’m almost 30 years later.
Kenric: Wow. What year did the first book come out?
David and Drew1901
Kenric: Was it really 1901.
David and Drewit was actually 1899.
Kenric: Wow. So you what? You had like a third printing second printing
David and DrewYeah. The first printing of that book is like $15,000. So this is, this is so like a lot of these things, the first printing thing wasn’t as high as the later print things because it ended up taking off. [00:26:00] So the copy that I have is probably is like a third, fourth printing and has a new cover on it. you know, two years after the first one, the original came out.
Kenric: I have a, go ahead. I’m sorry. I was saying, I have a, I have this thing in my head that every so often I always want to get the original wa S can’t get the originals, but as close as the earliest printing that I can afford to get of Dracula and Frankenstein and dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
But if you ever look those things up, Oh my Lord, are they expensive?
David and DrewI hear it’s, it’s insane. I would love to have a Jules Verne library.
John: No.
Kenric: Oh my God.
David and Drewall of those 19. Yeah. Those 19th century books that, novels that basically established for and scifi and fantasy. What else? I’m Wonderland, established the genres that we know of that we know [00:27:00] today. By over pioneers when they were, when they first came out.
Yeah. It would be amazing. Unlimited time. A little bit of money in my library would be fast. That’s
Kenric: Well, we need to turn Canto into a TV show and then you guys will be rolling in it. Yeah.
David and DrewI know. Fun called pop man.
John: Dude.
Kenric: he’s like, bill for a fun co pop.
David and DrewTotally by accident, right? True.
Kenric: I mean, I don’t see any resemblance. I think they’d have to really work on getting them to be a phone call pop is that his head’s not big enough. Okay.
David and DrewOh yeah, we’ll, we’ll fix the proportions. It’s no big. Original Funko if you are listening, we will fix them a Porsche. We will make it.
Kenric: We’re not too far from their corporate headquarters. We’re in, we’re just outside of Seattle and they’re just North of us in a city called Everett. Yeah.
[00:28:00] David and Drewwell you just, just get a copy of the trade and just throw it over the barbed wire.
Kenric: dude. They have a huge store inside with a bunch of things that you could take pictures of. You can literally just walk by one of their offices and just, we’ll just slip it under the door for you.
David and DrewPerfect.
Kenric: you go. There you go.
David and DrewWell, our understanding about , I’ll let you peek a little bit behind the curtain. She’s a wizard of Oz metaphor. they, they’re really much more, focused on TV and film properties. So it’s really hard to get a fun co popover comic unless you’re massively successful, like saga Neven like walking dead.
Whereas I don’t think that was really in the cards until the TV show got massively successful. So I mean, maybe Canto becomes a massively successful TV show and then we have a fun, cool pop and we all can have one.
Kenric: I think we need toys to get the kids really, really [00:29:00] involved. And then once you have toys and dolls, Oh, there’ll be, there’ll be, they’ll come running.
David and DrewI’m waiting on the toys, man. I’m waiting on it.
Kenric: Johnny knows a great guy that makes toys.
John: Yeah, I know. So I can talk to him.
Kenric: The guy does amazing work too, like amazing work. So when you guys are working on Canto, is there any other books that you’re reading that might. I don’t want to say take influence from, because I think you take influence from everything in your life and what you’re into, kind of breeds into what you create.
But is there books that you’re reading right now that might’ve helped you along? That’s a weird question.
David and DrewNo. I’m just trying to think of, I, I’ve got such a huge stack of comics.
Kenric: Oh, that’s
David and DrewHonestly, my reading for comics is really focused on, books that, friends and people I know in the comics industry are putting out.
Kenric: That’s how mine is now. [00:30:00] It used to be all Batman and Spiderman and excavate, and now it’s all independence and all things that people that I want to, I want to read their stories.
David and DrewI have my, Side table right here. I have, I’m looking at it right now. I have my house and fry and Fraggle rock.
John: Cause those are
Kenric: Yeah. That’s a weird mix, man. What is going on in your head?
David and DrewI mean, if you read Canto, you’ll know exactly. No. But it’s like, that’s, that’s the, that’s the range of things. I really was curious about the Fraggle rock book, just cause I loved for Iraq as a kid. So I’m reading it and it’s very much similar to the show. I really liked those biographical, Graphic novel memoir type books. Like they call this enemy George Takei book. And, I just read fun home for the first time, which is really fascinating. Yeah, [00:31:00] and so it just kind of now scarred
Kenric: Yeah.
David and Drewreally great.
Kenric: And then drew, who are, who was your influence for, for that, your drawing style? Do you have anybody that you, I don’t want to say try to be emulate, but I feel like when people are growing up, they always tend to emulate somebody knowingly or unknowingly until they find their own voice and their own style.
Cause I can tell right now, I’m going to read a bunch of your, I’m going to read through your guys’ books and then I. Going to be able to pick drew out of a lineup for his, for your drawing style, because it’s very distinct and it’s awesome. So I’m always curious how would, how, where’d your influences come from?
David and DrewSo I just answered this for someone else. It’s really weird with me because I’ve been an artist my whole life, and when I went to college. In my earliest, like comic pages, they are horrible. And I mean [00:32:00] like,
Kenric: Right,
David and Drewbut even when you hold those pages up against Canto, you can always tell it’s me dry and I don’t, I, I genuinely do not know why. I have no discernible way to like pinpoint. What it is that does that. I can’t, I’ve never figured it out, but whatever I draw, you can always kind of tell. It’s me doing
Kenric: Right.
David and Drewas far as who my influences are, Greg, Jeff Daro, cam Kennedy who did a, the dark empire stuff back in the nineties for dark.
Oh, of Glen Keane and Don Bluth. my, my influences come from far and wide. I am not just a comics guy. Most of my storytelling is learned out of a Scorsese movies.
Kenric: Oh, I see. So you [00:33:00] like getting the weird camera angles going on and getting that corner shot of taxi driver and everything?
David and DrewYes. Yes and no. It’s more, it’s more learning, learning, the visual, the language of film. Essential. And how did the still that, because I, I’d say like 60% of what gets used in film. It doesn’t work for comics as comics is so dependent on the single image, but you can make that illusion and you can trick the reader into feeling like they’re following the camera through an environment.
And that’s, that’s more of what I’ve learned out of film is how it works in film and then how to basically reverse engineer it for comics.
Kenric: That’s cool. Yeah, I can see that. I can see the influence from Don Bluth as well. When you said Don Bluth, I’m like, Oh yeah, [00:34:00] I can see that. Like the flowing Cape is very, I don’t know. Dan blues animation was so good,
David and DrewA secret fucked me
Kenric: Oh God, that’s such a great movie.
John: Oh
David and DrewI smell watch. I actually just watched it recently on, I mean, I saw it when I was younger and it’s on YouTube. It’s on YouTube for free. And so I watched, I watched it again and that eighties animation, Don Bluth, Oh gosh, just Dragon’s layer, right? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I played that game. I still play that game over and over and over again.
Kenric: I have it now. It’s on steam. I played it on my Mac. I love that game. I still love that game. I have yet to beat that game, and I’ve been playing it since 1984.
John: I don’t think anybody would be a set game. I’ll let anybody beat to that game.
Kenric: Oh, you can watch it on YouTube. Somebody beating it.
John: Okay.
Kenric: It’s amazing.
David and DrewI pull from a lot of places. I’ve recently really been digging into a Kira [00:35:00] much more than I ever did. And it’s astounding. Like I can’t wrap my head around how anyone drew this stuff traditionally. I’m just like the idea of figuring out where the perspective grades are is like, yep, no, thank you. My perspective, a horizon line and points are like eight sheets of paper long, and it’s like, well, I’ll have a ruler long enough to do this.
Kenric: Do you? You’re looking at you like, this is beyond me.
David and DrewExactly. But like I said, it comes from any number of places. It’s our address comics. I kind of feel like if you, if all you’re doing is looking at comics, you’re doing yourself a disservice because then you’re just copying stuff everyone else’s.
Kenric: Yeah, a hundred percent I think there’s some of the best people in comics do more than just the comic books and they, that they bring in all this different creativity from everything they do. There’s a [00:36:00] guy that is, comes on, from time to time. He’s a great artist and a great storyteller.
His name is Stephan Frank. Are you aware of him?
David and DrewSilver.
Kenric: Oh God, it’s so good. And now he’s got a new one called Palomino that’s coming out. that looks amazing. And I can’t wait. He did a D he did a commentary with us on silver for his favorite issue, which I believe is number seven, I think it is. And we went through it page by page, and man, Stephen is a master storyteller, but.
I think it comes from just not just doing comics though, you know, directing movies and animation, and then being the animation supervisor on some on things, and just having that love for everything that comes within that, that realm, and then bringing it towards comic books for his storytelling. It’s just, I think it behooves anybody to be multifaceted.
David and DrewOh yeah. I mean, like we, I went to a, I don’t know, do you guys know what SCAD is? [00:37:00] Savannah college of art and design.
Kenric: Oh, yeah.
John: I do now.
David and DrewAlright. that’s where I graduated from and it was always. The sequential department, which was basically the comics department was the running joke was the school hated this department.
There were never any bones made about that. They still hate the department. It is severely underfunded from what it should be, but the running joke about it was that it was the only department you ever learned to actually draw. And how does, because the teachers came from different backgrounds and disciplines and they all were so committed to teaching what they knew, it made the kids within the department super versatile.
So what ended up happening was. The film students, when it came time for senior project, he comes to sequential to get kids to storyboard. The animation [00:38:00] guys would come to sequential to learn how to actually draw a, the illustration guys would take classes with us. It always was like this weird amalgamation where.
Having all those disciplines meet you useful to everybody else and everybody else recognize that, and we’d come to the department to try to pick up on those skills.
Kenric: That’s awesome. It’s like the football players learning ballet.
David and DrewYeah, pretty much.
Kenric: That’s awesome.
John: Yes. Correlator Tony bookmaking the ballet, so to see now,
Kenric: Hey, ballet is an amazing art form. Don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t knock it to try it, buddy.
John: I have tried it.
Kenric: want to see your fat ass in a Tutu.
John: You know what, I, I have one of them before and you missed it.
David and DrewThere’ll be enough for you.
Kenric: Right, exactly. So can you guys give us a hint of what’s next for Canto after the hollow men?
[00:39:00] David and DrewOh,
Kenric: You don’t have to give anything away. Just that we know that more is coming after this. The second run is, is released.
David and DrewWell,
Kenric: He go see the movie. I love that
David and DrewYeah. Yeah. Seven seasons and a movie is what we like to say.
Kenric: community. Yeah.
David and DrewYeah. So, so, you know, cancer to the alderman is coming in August and Qantas. This is the way I describe it is keto and his three best friends, you can call them, Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin, if you want. They go on a new adventure to save all of their people.
And, I think the, it’s, it’s for preorder. So I can tell you the, the premise behind it is, so after the events and the first story arc can’t own as people are, are, spoiler alert, this is boiler country. All right.
John: it is
David and DrewSo, so Canto and his people, have been, have, have, reclaim their freedom from their [00:40:00] enslavement.
And so they’re, they’ve gone to their new home and they’re now settling in cancer, sort of knows in his gut that he was the evil figure. The evil source or the shrouded man who we faced in the first arc, is going to come back for them. It’s not just going to let them go and live in peace. So then he discovers that the reason why the shredded man has not come back to them and sort of let them live their lives is that his curse, their clocks to slow down until they stop, unless they returned to captivity.
Kenric: Oh wow.
David and DrewSo now and then, and then the wrinkle on it is. from Cantos confrontation with the shrouded man, he actually has taken some of the shredder man’s magic, and his clock is not slowing while everybody else’s is. So he’s now facing the eternal life problem where everybody cares about is going to perish while he lives on.
So he takes his three best friends and they’re Malheur X, and they go out on a new adventure to find the source of the [00:41:00] shredded man’s magic to try to lift this curse from his people. and so very much like the first arc. The second arc is going to see him, learn some new truths about the worlds and hopefully equip him for what’s coming down the road.
Fingers crossed, would be the, lead up to the confrontation once again with the shot a man to secure their freedom for good. yeah. So. I guess what I would say is there is no guarantee that we’re going to be able to keep going. So anybody who is in mildly interested in cancer, please go buy the issues, go, go buy the trade, talk to your friends about it.
If you have read it already, just really any bit of support. Talk about it on social media, our, our bosses at IDW really pay attention to all that. And the more chatter there is out there and obviously the more sales there are, the more of a guarantee there is that we get to see. Cancer three and cancer four, and really find out [00:42:00] what happens at the end of, at the end of the rainbow, if you will.
Kenric: be awesome. Man, you guys, it’s been about an hour already.
David and DrewAll right.
Kenric: so weird. It went fast.
John: So fast.
Kenric: You guys are awesome. I’m excited to have you guys come back and really deep dive into Canto in his world and go over that first book. And let’s just get a really cool, look and unique inside work. Look into the, into his world because I think people are gonna really love it.
Where can people purchase and preorder the book now
David and DrewSo,
Kenric: the first trade paperback, I guess, or the first book itself?
David and DrewSo I think at this point, Canto if only had a heart, the first story is available, through all comic shops, all major booksellers, online and in the shops. So you can order at, you can order it, Barnes and noble, [00:43:00] Amazon, and, Books-A-Million. As well as all the comic shops and then pre-ordering the one shot, which comes out on July 22nd and then Canto to the hollow man issue one that comes out on August 26th.
those are both available for preorder. Just call your shop or email your shop or go online if they have a website and asked to preorder that. Those, those preorders are super, super duper helpful for us to get some. You know, not only orders but cool covers. We’ve got the, issue one of, Canto to the Holloman.
We’ve got some spectacular incentive covers, including Ben Bishop who did a, TMNT, tribute cover that, tributes. The very first issue that Eastman and layered did of teenage mutant Ninja turtles back in like 86. So it’s Canto and his friends that are, that are set up like TMNT.
Kenric: I see it here and you got it.
John: Ben. [00:44:00] Ben’s a huge turtles
Kenric: Yeah, that is awesome. Looking.
David and DrewAnd then we went to the totally opposite spectrum with the, with the other retailer incentive cover by my buddy George , who does incredible illustration style. And he did a very cool vintage wizard of Oz feeling. Classic fairytale story book
Kenric: kind of gave him the 10 man kind of feel to them.
David and DrewYeah. So, we’ve got like two ends of the spectrum, which I think is a great mixture of, drew often says one of his big influences was the nineties turtles.
And one of my big influences was, was it a, was so,
Kenric: That’s
John: There you go.
Kenric: That’s awesome,
John: Right.
David and Drewyep.
Kenric: Well, David drew, it’s been a real pleasure talking to you guys. I really appreciate you coming on and taking the time to explore and explain Cantos world to us. I’m excited. I’m legitimately buying your book as we speak [00:45:00] on amazon.com and so I at least put a couple of speckles in your pocket today You know, let’s get this pushed out and we’ll, we’ll all those, all the URLs that David just mentioned, we’ll, we’ll put in the show notes to get people to drive, hopefully drive some people there.
David and DrewAbsolutely. Thank you. And one other thing, if you do buy it off of Amazon, please consider giving it a review, a good review, hopefully, but any reviews really helping the Amazon algorithm to boost us up.
Kenric: That’s awesome. There you go. All right guys. Well, we’ll talk to you soon. Thank you.
David and DrewThanks very much.

Author: Spoiler Country

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